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MuscleDeaf
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2005/08/01 12:51:35 (permalink)
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Conscription

Should this be re-introduced? I think a few countries still have this. If re-introduced in the UK would this make for a better chaveless society where men would be men, etc?

Opinions guys? and let's keep this rational!

Cheers

MD
#1

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    vascular1
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 12:56:41 (permalink)
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    YES !!!!... it should be introduced

    simple answer...


    but i can hear the leftys approaching with their usual rhetoric....


    v1.
    #2
    MuscleDeaf
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:03:13 (permalink)
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    Yes I had thought of that too but they (the "do-gooders") would'nt be exempt I'm sure....

    Cheers

    MD
    #3
    Airborne Warrior
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:03:49 (permalink)
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    The Army, Navy or RAF doesn't make a man out of you. I know loads of chavs in the Forces who smoke dope, take ecstacy and generally are knobs. It's no different to civvy street these days except if you dont turn up for work you get charged.

    Having lived through a combat situation makes a man of you!
    #4
    Knighty
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:05:15 (permalink)
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    To be honest I don't think it should

    I don't see why honest youngsters should have to get forced to be seperated from their friends and family when they don't want to be

    I think community or charity work should be added into the curriculum though...that definately opened my eyes up to a whole different world and made a much better, person for it. It also helped me on my way to curing depression
    post edited by Knighty - 2005/08/01 13:09:28

    #5
    Airborne Warrior
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:09:23 (permalink)
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    Yep, i agree knighty. The standards in the Armed Forces has dropped dramatically in the last 10 years. It would only make things much worse recruiting young men who don't want to be there and who wouldn't be up to the job anyway.
    #6
    alpine
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:11:39 (permalink)
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    The forces have got enough problems without trying to sort out society's numpties.

    I honstly think our society would not accept conscription, people would just not turn up.

    If kids walk down the street and can't even put litter in the bin, what's the chance of them fighting for their country, unless it's on the terraces.
    #7
    Mr_Creosote
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:20:42 (permalink)
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    I dont think its the answer.I think it all went wrong when the cane was dropped and not being allowed to smack kids lol However bringing that back i dont think would fix it either.I think parents need the education .I was watching a program last night on young serious offenders,and everyone had a low self asteme caused by abusive or absent parents.Telling you kids "dont do that stupid!" and the rubbish of " kids should be seen and not heard" .Now thats a way to make kids feel worthless if ever i heard it.Parents need to be educated on building their childs morale and confidence i think.
    post edited by robbo604 - 2005/08/01 13:21:45

    Deads= 120kg.Squats=130kg
    Start weight-----10st-5lb 15%bf

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    #8
    GTM
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:28:42 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Airborne Warrior

    Yep, i agree knighty. The standards in the Armed Forces has dropped dramatically in the last 10 years. It would only make things much worse recruiting young men who don't want to be there and who wouldn't be up to the job anyway.



    Not to mention all the attitude that they would have once they were back on the streets.

    I don't see conscription as any kind of solution. It wasn't consription that made men in our society respectful, it was the ideals of the times. As AW says, times have changed, both in and outside the forces. Values have changed. A breif period of being made to feel small and forced to get fit and maybe even learn how to kill isn't going to do society much good when they are let back out on the streets.


    GTM

    Just because one can't understand a concept, doesn't mean that it is wrong.
    #9
    Keyser Sozay
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:37:07 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: GTM

    A breif period of being made to feel small and forced to get fit and maybe even learn how to kill isn't going to do society much good when they are let back out on the streets.


    GTM


    No, it absolutely will not.

    I can't believe this question actually came up, and that this thread STILL hasn't been locked. I'm a Conscientious Objector, so I'd refuse to agree to commit state-sponsored murder on demand by a 'superior' officer, whether by bayonet, or push of a button, or by being an accessory.

    Damn stupid idea.

    KS
    post edited by Keyser Sozay - 2005/08/01 13:38:33
    #10
    alpine
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:46:55 (permalink)
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    In the good old days, if you were in the forces and went to war it was going to be against the Ruskies (where you probably wouldn't have a home and family to return to), or a nice little war (if there ever can be such a thing) where you can test your years of training out on an adversary that wore a uniform and you could be home in time for tiffin.

    Today you are at the whim of not just even our own elected government, but that of others and your enemy is some 11 year old kid who has been brainwashed along with thousand of his brothers.

    #11
    kitty
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:51:31 (permalink)
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    Perhaps for those who don't go to further education or get jobs. I'm not sure if they still have it in Turkey or not but I know they certainly did a few years ago as I used to deal with a company where one of the Directors had to go and complete his conscription. They have to do a certain amount of time before a particluar age. In his case because he'd gone to Uni, his was delayed and when he did go in the required amount of time was also reduced. He went in at a higher level as a translator and found it a fabulous experience at his age (he also lost loads of weight and got fit for the first time in his life).

    Providing it's introduced correctly, I see it could be quite useful.
    #12
    windymill
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 13:53:56 (permalink)
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    I joined the army at 16 and to be honest it didn't do me any real favours, though I was never a chav or ned. I agree with the idea of programmes that young people can do to benefit their community. Other countries have had them to great effect so there is no reason why they should not work here. I'm personally fed up at the general lawlesness and indifference to others that appears to be the norm today.
    #13
    Knorkop
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 14:06:19 (permalink)
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    I was one of the young South African men conscripted for 2 years service in the Defence Force at the height of the apartheid era and the inglorious "bush war" against the "terrorists" who are now the legitimate, democratically elected leadership of my country.

    That experience and the eventual outcome of the "war" constitute sufficient reason for me to vote against conscription.

    I am more in favour of "conscription" for the purpose of community work where qualified young people have to serve communities in their respective fields for a period of time. In South Africa this is already the case with newly qualified medical doctors.
    #14
    vikingraider1
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 17:16:46 (permalink)
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    Not only that, the quality of the armed forces goes down when they are entirely conscription based. I think one of the reasons that the British Army is the best in the world is down to its voluntary policy. many conscriptees wouldn't want to be there and would create a bad atmosphere for the people that did.
    #15
    mrbrightside
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 17:40:44 (permalink)
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    How about just putting the conscripts in the TA/reserve forces?

    Or making chavs go through some kind of special training with extra beastings, then letting them go if they want to.. It would certainly make them realise they're not as hard as they thought they were..

    Actually, that could just be a waste of resources, so I say put the buggers in jail. They're all exactly the same - complete arseholes! And that's not a prejudice, they REALLY ARE all the same!
    #16
    Knighty
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 17:48:47 (permalink)
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    Also if we're trying to head towards a peaceful, democratic world, what good will forcing the young generation to turn into fighting machines do?

    ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozay

    I can't believe this question actually came up, and that this thread STILL hasn't been locked.



    Because it's not offensive perhaps?


    #17
    westy19
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 17:56:49 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: kitty

    I'm not sure if they still have it in Turkey or not but I know they certainly did a few years ago as I used to deal with a company where one of the Directors had to go and complete his conscription. They have to do a certain amount of time before a particluar age. In his case because he'd gone to Uni, his was delayed and when he did go in the required amount of time was also reduced. He went in at a higher level as a translator and found it a fabulous experience at his age (he also lost loads of weight and got fit for the first time in his life).

    Providing it's introduced correctly, I see it could be quite useful.



    they do still have it turkey, i think you have to complete your service by the time your 35, my dads mate is from turkey and hadn't done it, so when he turned 35 he could no longer go back to turkey otherwise he would be arrested for not completing his service, he has brought his way out though, so he could go and visit his family, it cost about 5k.

    i would quite like it to be introduced so i could join the army for 2 years, i think the main problem would be reintroducing it, once it was up and running and been going for a few years and people had accepted it, i could see it being quite benefical, the main problem is getting people to embrace it in the first place.
    #18
    Airborne Warrior
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 17:59:21 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozay

    No, it absolutely will not.

    I can't believe this question actually came up, and that this thread STILL hasn't been locked. I'm a Conscientious Objector, so I'd refuse to agree to commit state-sponsored murder on demand by a 'superior' officer, whether by bayonet, or push of a button, or by being an accessory.

    Damn stupid idea.

    'State sponsored murder!

    Are you sure? I'll put a tenner that wherever you or your parents were born there's alot more 'State sponsored murder' goes on then by this country!
    #19
    muchalucha
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    RE: Conscription 2005/08/01 18:19:02 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Airborne Warrior


    ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozay

    No, it absolutely will not.

    I can't believe this question actually came up, and that this thread STILL hasn't been locked. I'm a Conscientious Objector, so I'd refuse to agree to commit state-sponsored murder on demand by a 'superior' officer, whether by bayonet, or push of a button, or by being an accessory.

    Damn stupid idea.

    'State sponsored murder!

    Are you sure? I'll put a tenner that wherever you or your parents were born there's alot more 'State sponsored murder' goes on then by this country!



    what a ridiculous come back. In what way is your reply related to KS' post? did he say he was exclusively referring to the british army? no he didnt. sounds pretty bigoted imo.
    #20
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