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Helpful ReplyHot!Continuing discussion on fasting...

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stinking_dylan
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2018/08/24 07:32:58 (permalink)
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Continuing discussion on fasting...

As some of James' plant based diet topic was debating the benefits of fasting, new thread started...
 
To kick off, I started fasting about two years ago.  Initially worked my way up to 16:8 intermittent approach which was tough at first (constantly checking the clock to see when I could eat).  I now do a 20:4 (and sometimes go up to 22:2) four days a week with no hunger.
 
On heavy training days (Monday, Wednesday and Friday) I train AM and PM and eat all day (high carb).
 
Fasting days I tend to eat 3 meals, one of which is a high protein smoothie.  Because I don't eat the meat quantities that Animal eats, I need the smoothie to hit my protein requirements, otherwise it would be two meals.
 
On a recent hiking holiday in Bavaria, we hiked all day (about 25km per day) and I was fine maintaining my fast with no lack of energy and going low carb.
 
For strength athletes (powerlifting, weightlifting & strongman) do you find it deters from your performance?

Lifter, runner and founder of nuutrii, a free recipe analyses tool for athletes.
#1
MikeGov
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 09:26:55 (permalink)
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A few questions I'd like to ask

1. What got you into fasting?

For myself I used to read a lot of Lyle McDonald's stuff and Martin Berkham (sp?) started posting about his experience with intermittent fastingd and his recomposition. I remember a massive thread where a lot of forum members were dubious of his claims but a lot were persuaded after trying it themselves. I think he was going to write a book with Lyle and Alan Aragon but that fell through - Martin has just release his book which I will buy. I myself had a lot of success with IF but stopped a few years ago due to illness and have only recently got back into it. This time I'm doing it but in combination with a keto diet; which leads to my next question:

2. Has anybody tried fasting on a ketogenic diet and is there any noticeable difference than fasting using a carb based diet?

From what I have read/listened to a lot of people seem to find a keto/fasting approach really seems to work well. I have found that I am now full of a lot of energy and mental clarity especially if I extend my fast beyong 16 hours

3. For those of you that fast for days at a time, what is the longest you've fasted for,o you find it a struggle and are there any drinks such as tea, coffee that help?

And do you find a dip on strength after an extended 2 or 3 day fast?
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ANIMAL
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 10:25:33 (permalink)
+1 (1)
I’ve been doing various levels of fasting for a few years now. I have historically had a very bad abusive relationship with food topping out at 28 stone. If left unchecked, i could just eat and eat. I never actually feel full. This ability to put food away enabled me to get quite strong and put a lot of muscle on relatively easily but it also left me with a lot of excess fat not very healthy. I’ve been working hard to address these issues over the last few years and feel I have beaten this ‘addiction’ to food.

One of the main things that has helped me is fasting. I like to have a big meal. I’d much rather have 1 or 2 big meals then lots of little smaller ones. Fasting let’s me balance my daily calories much more effectively.

Performance wise for strength, fasting doesn’t have that much of impact. IMO calories are king and as long you are getting enough calories in, strength will increase. As long as you have a good feed the night before, training sessions are actually better fasted. For me I have a lot more focus on an empty stomach.

I’ve experimented with long fasting up to 50 hours but I’ve found no benefit going over 24 hours. 20 is my go to number.

It is definitely easier to fast on a keto diet. Getting back into keto ca als be done a lot quicker with fasting.

Fat fasting is also very good. I know bullet proof coffee is a bit off a joke but it does help with long fasting and is actually quite nice although I prefer double cream in my coffee. I go through phases of water fasting and fat fasting.

Another worthwhile method is a protein sparing modified fast. Just 1g protein per kg. Lyle Macs rapid fat loss handbook is very good. I like to use PSMF once every 2 or 3 weeks and then only for a day. When on keto having a day of no fat imo is beneficial. It’s very hard to do for a extended period though.
#3
stinking_dylan
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 10:49:53 (permalink)
+1 (1)
MikeGov;
 
1. I started fasting as a natural method of improving my testosterone levels. I've never performed it as a method of losing weight, although I do sometimes lose weight while fasting. There is constantly more evidence showing the benefits of fasting on general health and as a means of treating ailments (or allowing the body to treat the condition itself).
 
2. Yes, I used IF during a keto phase where I was trying to improve my fat adaption for endurance events. I found the both worked extremely well together. A keto diet makes fasting easy (you rarely feel hungry) and fasting promotes nutritional ketosis. I was able to run a half marathon regularly fasted with no issues.
 
3. I've not done multi day fasts and have gone over one day (longest was about 27 hours I believe) but these were not intentional, they both occurred while travelling. At the end of the fast I was not actually hungry, so waited until I could get some decent fatty proteins.

Lifter, runner and founder of nuutrii, a free recipe analyses tool for athletes.
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MikeGov
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 11:04:35 (permalink)
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stinking_dylan
MikeGov;
 
1. I started fasting as a natural method of improving my testosterone levels. I've never performed it as a method of losing weight, although I do sometimes lose weight while fasting. There is constantly more evidence showing the benefits of fasting on general health and as a means of treating ailments (or allowing the body to treat the condition itself).
 
2. Yes, I used IF during a keto phase where I was trying to improve my fat adaption for endurance events. I found the both worked extremely well together. A keto diet makes fasting easy (you rarely feel hungry) and fasting promotes nutritional ketosis. I was able to run a half marathon regularly fasted with no issues.
 
3. I've not done multi day fasts and have gone over one day (longest was about 27 hours I believe) but these were not intentional, they both occurred while travelling. At the end of the fast I was not actually hungry, so waited until I could get some decent fatty proteins.

Cherers for that. Do you have any articles or studies that you can point me to with regard to fasting and the way that it can help the body heal itself/ treat ailments? This is a particular subject that is of great interest to me as I have struggled with my health for a number of years.

When I started training years ago if someone told me you could exercise and function well in a fasted or fat adapted state I would have thought they were bonkers.
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MikeGov
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 11:12:33 (permalink)
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ANIMAL
I’ve been doing various levels of fasting for a few years now. I have historically had a very bad abusive relationship with food topping out at 28 stone. If left unchecked, i could just eat and eat. I never actually feel full. This ability to put food away enabled me to get quite strong and put a lot of muscle on relatively easily but it also left me with a lot of excess fat not very healthy. I’ve been working hard to address these issues over the last few years and feel I have beaten this ‘addiction’ to food.

One of the main things that has helped me is fasting. I like to have a big meal. I’d much rather have 1 or 2 big meals then lots of little smaller ones. Fasting let’s me balance my daily calories much more effectively.

Performance wise for strength, fasting doesn’t have that much of impact. IMO calories are king and as long you are getting enough calories in, strength will increase. As long as you have a good feed the night before, training sessions are actually better fasted. For me I have a lot more focus on an empty stomach.

I’ve experimented with long fasting up to 50 hours but I’ve found no benefit going over 24 hours. 20 is my go to number.

It is definitely easier to fast on a keto diet. Getting back into keto ca als be done a lot quicker with fasting.

Fat fasting is also very good. I know bullet proof coffee is a bit off a joke but it does help with long fasting and is actually quite nice although I prefer double cream in my coffee. I go through phases of water fasting and fat fasting.

Another worthwhile method is a protein sparing modified fast. Just 1g protein per kg. Lyle Macs rapid fat loss handbook is very good. I like to use PSMF once every 2 or 3 weeks and then only for a day. When on keto having a day of no fat imo is beneficial. It’s very hard to do for a extended period though.

Very interesting and informative.

Not sure if you monitor health via bloods or whether you feel the need to but if somone was fasting/following a keto diet would there be any particular markers you'd consider monitoring (eg. blood sugars) or do you think that going by how you feel is sufficient?

Cheers
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stinking_dylan
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 12:17:51 (permalink)
+1 (1)
MikeGov
Cherers for that. Do you have any articles or studies that you can point me to with regard to fasting and the way that it can help the body heal itself/ treat ailments? This is a particular subject that is of great interest to me as I have struggled with my health for a number of years.

I'll have a dig around, but some recent interviews on high intensity health have been good;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXGxoNFag4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Aw0P7GjHE
 
Also, a good documentary on Netflix called 'Fasting'.

Lifter, runner and founder of nuutrii, a free recipe analyses tool for athletes.
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Howlchain
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 12:30:58 (permalink)
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I love a good fast whenever I'm feeling bloated. I don't do anything scientific. I just do a day or two at a time. It feels like it cleans me out and then I get back to eating.
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Howlchain
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 12:33:28 (permalink)
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stinking_dylan
 
3. I've not done multi day fasts and have gone over one day (longest was about 27 hours I believe) but these were not intentional, they both occurred while travelling. At the end of the fast I was not actually hungry, so waited until I could get some decent fatty proteins.




I have found this to be the case. I reach a point after a few hours when I'm really hungry but as the fast continues the hunger goes away. No idea why.
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Howlchain
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 12:36:18 (permalink)
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MikeGov

Cherers for that. Do you have any articles or studies that you can point me to with regard to fasting and the way that it can help the body heal itself/ treat ailments? This is a particular subject that is of great interest to me as I have struggled with my health for a number of years.




What health problems? I had dangerously high blood pressure and regular fasting alongside daily cardio fixed it. No idea how.
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stinking_dylan
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 12:45:38 (permalink)
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Howlchain
 
I have found this to be the case. I reach a point after a few hours when I'm really hungry but as the fast continues the hunger goes away. No idea why.

What I've gathered is that it's down to ghrelin production. You will even produce ghrelin near meal times, but it stops if you don't eat. Fasting also appears to be a way of switching quickly into ketosis, which may also contribute.

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stinking_dylan
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 12:47:22 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Howlchain
What health problems? I had dangerously high blood pressure and regular fasting alongside daily cardio fixed it. No idea how.



Apparently being used for a lot of things, from asthma to mental health issues, but I'm not sure on the evidence. Blood pressure, insulin sensitivity and gut disorders seem to be the main benefits.
 

Lifter, runner and founder of nuutrii, a free recipe analyses tool for athletes.
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MikeGov
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/24 13:38:07 (permalink)
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stinking_dylan
MikeGov
Cherers for that. Do you have any articles or studies that you can point me to with regard to fasting and the way that it can help the body heal itself/ treat ailments? This is a particular subject that is of great interest to me as I have struggled with my health for a number of years.

I'll have a dig around, but some recent interviews on high intensity health have been good;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXGxoNFag4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Aw0P7GjHE
 
Also, a good documentary on Netflix called 'Fasting'.

Brilliant - thanks very much
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MikeGov
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/26 07:25:25 (permalink)
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Howlchain
MikeGov

Cherers for that. Do you have any articles or studies that you can point me to with regard to fasting and the way that it can help the body heal itself/ treat ailments? This is a particular subject that is of great interest to me as I have struggled with my health for a number of years.




What health problems? I had dangerously high blood pressure and regular fasting alongside daily cardio fixed it. No idea how.

I have Hashimotos Disease
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thegrimreaper
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/26 07:33:43 (permalink)
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Dylan,

Out of interest have you correlated any improvement in testosterone levels from fasting (via blood testing). I've read a few studies (some of which are cited in Brad Pilons book 'eat stop eat') that have also suggested the improvement in testosterone.
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MikeGov
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/26 08:19:06 (permalink)
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thegrimreaper
Dylan,

Out of interest have you correlated any improvement in testosterone levels from fasting (via blood testing). I've read a few studies (some of which are cited in Brad Pilons book 'eat stop eat') that have also suggested the improvement in testosterone.

That's interesting as I believe test levels are normally at their highest in the morning ? - after we have fasted due to sleeping

Is there any correlation between the amount of time fasting and the increase in test levels, i.e. the longer you fast, the more test levels increase?
post edited by MikeGov - 2018/08/26 08:29:57
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MikeGov
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/26 08:35:18 (permalink)
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General question - is there any known advantages/disadvantages to fasting every day vs. fasting only on a certain number of days during a week?
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ANIMAL
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/26 09:41:42 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby stinking_dylan 2018/08/26 16:51:12
+2 (2)
Here’s a good ebook by Dr John Berardi who’s very respected in exercise physiology and nutrient biochemistry. He experimented with different fasting protocols (daily fasting,Alternate day, lean gains,eat stop eat, warrior, 5.2 etc) and monitored everything performance wise.

https://www.precisionnutr...tent_fasting_ebook.pdf
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stinking_dylan
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/26 16:51:08 (permalink)
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Thanks Animal, I've been looking for some further reading material on fasting...

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stinking_dylan
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Re: Continuing discussion on fasting... 2018/08/26 17:05:27 (permalink)
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thegrimreaper
Out of interest have you correlated any improvement in testosterone levels from fasting (via blood testing). I've read a few studies (some of which are cited in Brad Pilons book 'eat stop eat') that have also suggested the improvement in testosterone.

Sorry, I've not had my blood checked since starting fasting so I have no actual figures. I do know that I have low test levels though.
 
Interestingly, I was just watching an interview with Charles Poliqui on High Intensity Health (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtWoU3bHrvg).
 
In the video (at about 09:00), he claims that test is not the most important marker for anabolism, rather DHEA sulphate in relation to cortisol, and he's worked with big natties with low test but high DHEA, and small guys with high test but low DHEA...

Lifter, runner and founder of nuutrii, a free recipe analyses tool for athletes.
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