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Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put?

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SG
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2005/07/25 22:53:54 (permalink)

Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put?

Some guys on the forum recently helped put this routine together for me:

Ab Work
Chins/pull ups [lats]
Bent over rows [upper back/lats]
Bicep curls [biceps]


Dips [tris and delts]
Bench press [chest]
Military press [shoulders]
Close grip bench press [triceps]


Squat [quads]
SLDL [hamstring]
Calf raises [calf]
Deads [lower back]


I'm wondering if plopping a seated dumbell raise (when you hold it behind and lift it up) would benefit my lateral delts as my anteriors are OK, but I want to get tennis ball shoulders - I think I'm right in saying that's what they hit, but if I'm wrong, fill me in! I also want to add shrugs, as my traps are great - one of my best features and I want to keep them like that and keep beefing them... They add the illusion of width, and at 5'6" with a missus that's 6', it helps!

I'm wondering where people think that I should slot them in if they'll benefit my routine... maybe ditch the military press for the overhead (I hate the MP)?

Oh, extra question: do you think that maybe I should incline the bench press for extra delt targeting, or will that sacrifice the chest?

Any info appreciated guys, thanks!
post edited by groovemeister - 2005/07/25 22:57:58
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    rogerthedog
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/25 23:05:49 (permalink)
    If you want to target the medial deltoid then a lateral raise might help.
    If your traps are great without shrus then I would keep it that way. Something else must be working them hard. Probably the rows.
    The other thing I would suggest if you really want to build up your shoulders - move them away from the chest and tris workout. If you want to hit them heavy and hard I don't personally think you can do it on chest day.
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    capa
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 05:31:46 (permalink)
    Thanks Rogerthedog. Mate, you just helped me figure out my program!

    I'm into low reps and high sets but am also thinking of moving my shoulders out of chest day and increasing reps on my chest day (ie: one heavy and one light).

    What do you think of two chest days (ONE: bench, dips, incline bench, close grip bench, and, TWO: HEAVY bench (5x3) plus shoulders?), and, if this is no good, where can I put shoulders?, with legs? by themself?

    What type of prgram do you do? How many reps do you usually do? I'm thinking of upping my reps as I currently do a 5x5 (Frankies NY program) and am thinking of moving to Big Al's routine.

    Cheers - appreciate any help.
    post edited by capa - 2005/07/26 05:33:45
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    capa
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 05:32:57 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: capa

    Thanks Rogerthedog. Mate, you just helped me figure out my program!

    I'm into low reps and high sets but am also thinking of moving my shoulders out of chest day and increasing reps on my chest day (ie: one heavy and one light).

    What do you think of two chest days (ONE: bench, dips, incline bench, close grip bench, and, TWO: HEAVY bench (5x3) plus shoulders?), and, if this is no good, where can I put shoulders?, with legs? by themself?

    What type of prgram do you do? How many reps do you usually do? I'm thinking of upping my reps as I currently do a 5x5 (Frankies NY program) and am thinking of moving to Big Al's routine.

    Cheers - appreciate any help.


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    rogerthedog
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 06:19:34 (permalink)



    Thanks Rogerthedog. Mate, you just helped me figure out my program!

    I'm into low reps and high sets but am also thinking of moving my shoulders out of chest day and increasing reps on my chest day (ie: one heavy and one light).

    What do you think of two chest days (ONE: bench, dips, incline bench, close grip bench, and, TWO: HEAVY bench (5x3) plus shoulders?), and, if this is no good, where can I put shoulders?, with legs? by themself?


    I'm not a big fan of it myself but that doesn't matter If it makes sense to you then give it a try and see how it goes. You might find it's the best workout possible.
    I used to do shoulders with legs. It sort of worked well. It turned out to be a victim of it's own success. As I got stronger it became harder and harder to contemplate heavy shoulder work after an all out leg session.
    By themselves is an option. You could do something similar to me - see below.


    What type of prgram do you do? How many reps do you usually do? I'm thinking of upping my reps as I currently do a 5x5 (Frankies NY program) and am thinking of moving to Big Al's routine.

    Cheers - appreciate any help.


    My split goes: Chest and arms, back and shoulders, legs.
    I have a mixture of sets and reps which evolves for each exercise. Eg Squats and benches I like 3x6, bent rows 3x 8. Incline dumbell press I go for 2 x 10 (after flat bench) etc etc.

    Whatever you choose to do I wouldn't take it at face value. Stick with it for a while and then see how you're progressing.
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    TONY
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 08:08:06 (permalink)
    grovemeister, no offence mate but i think you need to pick 1 simple routine and stick to it stop trying to arse around with what people have suggested and just do 1 routine for a minimum3 months. oh and by the way do deadlifts on back day
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    SG
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 19:45:04 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: rogerthedog

    If you want to target the medial deltoid then a lateral raise might help.
    If your traps are great without shrus then I would keep it that way. Something else must be working them hard. Probably the rows.
    The other thing I would suggest if you really want to build up your shoulders - move them away from the chest and tris workout. If you want to hit them heavy and hard I don't personally think you can do it on chest day.


    My traps are great because I always did shrugs before this new routine, that's why I ask. Lat raise instead of overhead raise then... overhead raise no good for lalteral delts then?

    If you say don't do lateral delts on chest day, then how about the top section/upper back/biceps (this one):

    Ab Work
    Chins/pull ups [lats]
    Bent over rows [upper back/lats]
    Bicep curls [biceps] ?

    If I do that, shall I throw shrugs in on chest day?

    ORIGINAL: tony1blue

    grovemeister, no offence mate but i think you need to pick 1 simple routine and stick to it stop trying to arse around with what people have suggested and just do 1 routine for a minimum3 months. oh and by the way do deadlifts on back day


    If my routine can be improved, I'd much rather know sooner than waiting 3 months and then deciding that I haven't gained enough.

    Deads on back day... are you sure? I thought they would have gone better on same day as squats, as both hit erector spinae. If you're right, that's no prob, as I can just swap it for abs. But like I say, are you sure, I thought it would have gone better with squats?
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    TONY
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 20:32:44 (permalink)
    deads on back day for definate. imho if you are training hard enough both squats and deads together on the same day would be far to much some people do them toghter but i think if you do one will always hinder the other (for me anyway)
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    SG
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 21:24:24 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: tony1blue

    deads on back day for definate. imho if you are training hard enough both squats and deads together on the same day would be far to much some people do them toghter but i think if you do one will always hinder the other (for me anyway)


    Ah, so basically the beginner's rule applies for my back: it can be done more than once a week because I'm not that big, but once I get big enough that I should only do it only once a week, I can cope with it!

    OK, thanks.
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    rogerthedog
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/26 23:11:56 (permalink)
    There is no beginners rule.
    I'm not sure what you mean by overhead raise. I would go for one pressing movement like seated dumbell press or military press or some such like as the basis of your delt work. I like to follow those up with lateral raises as well - I like a mixture of compound and isolation.

    Tony has a good point. There is absolutely no way to devise a routine that is guaranteed to work. It's better to just stick with something for a while and then assess it and adjust it.
    I or you or Tony or almost anyone else on this board could write you out a complete routine and they would all have the same chance of being right.
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    SG
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    RE: Couple of extra bits to my routine, where to put? 2005/07/27 00:53:50 (permalink)
    OK, thanks for the info guys.

    On a finishing note, of course you don't know how effective a routine is until you have been working long enough to see any results, but you always need a good balance of stuff and so a plan to hit all the right places is good before you plough ahead and do it.

    It's only once you know how well it works that you have to modify it, but you'll have a better chance of having to change less if the plan is good from the start, and from at least trying to cover all bases- the most basic example being no one ever got big biceps from doing the leg press, so I need to put a bicep curl in.

    I'd rather fuss around and make sure I've got everything right than decide I should have included more shoulder exercises in my routine 3 months down the line when they pale compared to the rest of me.
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