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Papa Lazarou
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2010/04/16 12:11:10 (permalink)
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Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here!

A Few basic points:


  1. Stick to the diet as written - of course changes the meats and rotate the spinach/broccoli/asparagus etc but do not start adding in variants/extra meals/fats/carbs etc and expect it to work as well! e.g. sausage/bacon/eggs etc aren't part of your breakfast and are packed with fats and carbs!
  2. Do not have pre/intra/post shakes - they are not part of the diet and are not needed and will slow fat loss.  If you must have a post workout shake, plan your meal for that time of the day to be a shake.
  3. Isolate shakes are the best to have on this diet - several bulk suppliers do them very cheaply - 2.5kg at £35 will last your 50 meals - very cheap!  Normal wheys are ok, as long as you stick to whey that is below around 10g per shake.  Bare in min your intake of carbs needs to stay UNDER 30g a day.  Allow for this in you intake of carbs and plan around it.
  4. Use Omega 3 eggs if you can.  If you cannot/cannot afford then supplement with 3 x 1000mg caps of Omega 3.  I also use 3 x 1000mg Primrose Oil to keep my EFA's high and help support the membrane of muscle.  Bear in mind the body doesn't have EFA's or Enzymes that can make them so they HAVE to be taken in from your diet.
  5. Diet drinks are usually ok unless you are especially sensitive.  It is prolly best to leave them out as your body gets used to very little carbs for the first few weeks and stick to water but for most they will not kick you out of keto.  If you find week after week you don't lose much weight and drink diet drinks it may be worth considering dropping them.
  6. Black coffee is fine, again leave for the first few weeks and try to restrict the number you have due to cortisol being released if you have too much.
  7. DO NOT alter the diet and ask me to check - i'm here to help with the Dave Palumbo Keto Diet - I'm sorry but I don't have time to check the macro's of several hundred peoples diets - the thread is already over 100 pages long and perhaps 1000 posts - I think you get the idea!


If there is anything else I think of i'll let you know and add to the list!


Some video guides from them man himself (parts 1-3):-

http://www.dailymotion.co...utrition-with-da_sport
http://www.dailymotion.co...utrition-with-da_sport
http://www.dailymotion.co...utrition-with-da_sport

post edited by Papa Lazarou - 2011/03/12 00:05:00
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Papa Lazarou
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Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 12:19:02 (permalink)
+4 (2)
I seem to be getting a huge number of Dave Palumbo’s keto diet questions. Rather than have them spread across a dozen threads please ask them in here so you can find out what you need to know. Remember all I know is what I’ve read and researched and learned myself. Nothing more.  I’m not a dietictian of any kind, and respond based on my experience – what I say is not necessarily fact! 
  
I’m happy to answer anything I can do to help you but please take time to read the information provided as I’m answering a lot of very similar if not the same questions, often in the same thread – thanks! 
  
 

Remember, it takes 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.  

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).  

1oz almonds equals 6g carbs (2 of those grams are fiber) and 2oz equals 12g of carbs.  

With the beef meal (any fatty protein meal), you should have the green salad with 1 tablespoon of Olive or Mac oil INSTEAD of the nuts. Only eat the nuts with the LEAN PROTEIN MEAL (chicken, turkey, lean fish)  

The best fat sources come from the essential fatty acids-- Omega-6 and Omega-3's. Most of us get plenty of Omega-6s from cooking oils, ect..........however the Omega-3's are harder to get. I recommend WHOLE OMEGA-3 EGGS, FaTTY FISHS like SALMON and SWORDFISH and TUNA and MACKEREL, ALMONDS and WALNUTS have some OMEGA-3's (as well as OMEGA-6s). ANother great fat source is MONOUNSATURATES such as EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL and MACADAMIA NUT OIL.....they aren't essential but they are great for the metabolism (great source of energy) and they are extremely good for your heart.  

You're not getting any indirect sources of carbs (just from the 1 spoonful of PB.... you may want to have at least one 1/3cup nuts meal. Remember, Olive or Macadamia nut oil is predominantly a MONOUNSATURATED FAT (good for the heart, but not essential)........ the nuts, and fish oil have the essential fats in them. Also, with regard to FLAX SEED OIL, the OMEGA-3 Fatty Acids found in them (alpha-linolenic acid) has a very poor conversion to DHA and EPA (Essential Omega-3 intermediates) in the HUMAN........therefore, you're much better off taking in FISH OILS (that already contain DHA/EPA) than FLAX SEED OIL.  

Once fat loss slows, I always increase cardio first, then I increase the amount of fat burners (clen, cytomel, lipolyze).........After those other methods are exhausted, only then, do I play with the diet.  

Always eat BEFORE lifting........never BETWEEN lifting and cardio.  
Artificial Sweetners:  
The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........whereas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin  

Forget using:  
-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!  
-Arginine is not going to do anything. It will DO something; just not dramatic.  

Cardio:  
CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY  

never do less than 20 min per session  

The BOTTOM LINE is that low intensity cardio (while you might need more of it) ensures that fat is utilized and muscle is spared (especially while on my high protein/moderate fat/low carb diety).  

Do you feel the treadmill is better for cardio, or is the bike(stationary or recumbent) just as good? As long as the intensity is LOW, it doesn't matter which piece of equipment you use  

Q&A:  
Q: Is gluconeogenesis inevitable in your diet?   
Dave Palumbo: NO  

Q: If so do I need to consume more than 1.5 grams of protein per lb of LBM so as not to lose muscle?  
Dave Palumbo: The fat spares the protein....when the brain is in ketosis, the carbohydrate requirements are very very low.  

Q: How much (percentage) of my protein intake would be turned into glucose (gluconeogenesis)?   
Dave Palumbo: Very little (maybe 10%)  

Q: What do you think of submersion in cold water as a means of burning bodyfat (thermogenesis)?   
Dave Palumbo: HOCUS POKUS!  

Q: How about drinking lots of cold water (I think this was even suggested by Elligton Darden) to help lose bodyfat?   
Dave Palumbo: RIDICULOUS  

Q: Do you think drinking lots of Green Tea is beneficial to fat loss?   
Dave Palumbo: Somewhat helpful.  

Q: How much is the ideal dosage of Omega 3 for a 220 lb. individual ?   
Dave Palumbo: Try to take in about 9g per day  

Q: How many Tbs of peanut butter could I have instead of 1/2 cup of cashewnuts?   
Dave Palumbo: 2 tablespoons, two tablespoons of Peanut Butter contains 190 calories and 16 grams of fat (so 1.5 tablespoon equals about 12 grams fat) ...whereas......... 2oz (1/3 cup) almonds (about 40 almonds) = 12g fat  

Q: I want to add that if I cant find the omega eggs here locally. Can I use international egg whites and just take an omega supplement?  
Dave Palumbo: You can get away with 5 whole eggs (regular ones) once a day........not a big deal. You'll be burning up all that fat anyway.  

Q: Whats the max cups # of coffee ( no sugar ) can consume on Dave's diet ?   
Dave Palumbo: Try to limit to 2 cups per day.......I realize that towards the end of the diet you may need more to help you get through the day.  

Q: If you cook tilapia in macadamon nut oil?do you coun't the oil as your fat for that meal! Depends how much you use.   
Dave Palumbo: If you just grease the pan with it, no!  

Q: what is the protein,carb and fat ratio for offseason  
Dave Palumbo: 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs  

Q: and the ratio for contest prep.   
Dave Palumbo:60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs

  
  
Variations of the Palumbo diet for certain individuals :  
200lb male  
Meal #1: 5 whole eggs (Omega-3), 4 egg-whites (can be liquid egg-whites).  
Meal #2: Shake: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ½ tablespoon of All Natural Peanut Butter (no sugar).  
Meal #3: Lean protein meal: 8oz Chicken with ½ cup cashew nuts (or almonds, walnuts).  
Meal #4: Shake: same as meal #2.  
Meal #5: Fatty protein meal: 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or Red Meat with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia Nut Oil and Vinegar.  
Meal #6: Same as meal #2 and #4, or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra egg-whites.  

250lb+ male  
Meal #1: 6 whole (Omega-3) eggs.  
Meal #2: 8oz chicken with ½ cup raw almonds.  
Meal #3: 50g whey protein with 2 tablespoons all natural peanut butter.  
Meal #4: 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil.  
Meal #5: same as meal #3.  
Meal #6: 6 whole (Omega-3) eggs.  

120lb female  
Meal #1: 2 whole (omega-3) eggs and 6 egg-whites.  
Meal #2: 4oz chicken with 1/4 cup raw almonds.  
Meal #3: 35g whey protein with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.  
Meal #4: 4oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil.  
Meal #5: same as meal #1 or meal #3.  

100lb (lean body mass) female figure competitor  
Meal #1: 2 whole omega-3 eggs and 4 egg whites.  
Meal #2: 30g whey protein and 1 tablespoon natural peanut butter.  
Meal #3: 6oz chicken and 1oz (1/8 cup) raw almonds.  
Meal #4: same as meal #2.  
Meal #5: 4oz salmon, 2 cups of spinach leaves, 1 teaspoon virgin olive oil and vinegar.  

170lb male (153lbs LBM)  
Meal #1: 3 whole omega-3 eggs, 3 egg-whites, 3 slices fat-free turkey.  
Meal #2: 40g whey protein and 1 tablespoon olive oil.  
Meal #3: 150g skinless chicken breast and 1 tablespoon soy and 1 tablespoon mustard and 30g almonds.  
Meal #4: same as meal #2.  
Meal #5: 200g top sirloin steak and 85g raw spinach and 1 tablespoon olive oil.  
Meal #6: 2 whole omega-3 eggs, 1 can tuna.  

160 lb male  
Meal #1: 4 whole eggs, ¾ cup egg-whites, fish oil, primrose oil.  
Meal #2: 7oz chicken, ¼ cup almonds.  
Meal #3: 7oz salmon, 1 cup spinach.  
Meal #4: same as meal #2.  
Meal #5: 7oz lean ground beef, 1 cup spinach, 1 tablespoon olive oil.  
Meal #6: 3 whole eggs, 1 cup egg-whites, fish oil, primrose oil.  

185lb natty bb at 12%bf  
Meal #1: 5 whole omega-3 eggs.  
Meal #2: 7oz chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds.  
Meal #3: 40g whey protein with 1.5 tablespoons all natural peanut butter (post-workout meal).  
Meal #4: 6oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil.  
Meal #5: 40g whey protein with 2 tablespoons all natural peanut butter.  
Meal #6: 4 whole omega-3 eggs with 4 extra egg-whites.  

176lb natty bb at 11-12%bf  
Meal #1: 4 whole omega-3 eggs with 4 extra egg-whites.  
Meal #2: 200g chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds.  
Meal #3: 40g whey protein with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.  
Meal #4: 200g red meat or salmon with 1 cup asparagus.  
Meal #5: 40g whey protein with 1.5 tablespoons all natural peanut butter.  
Meal #6: same as meal #1.  

155lb male at 15%bf  
Meal #1: 3 whole omega-3 eggs.  
Meal #2: 5oz chicken with ¼ cup raw almonds.  
Meal #3: 30g whey isolate with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.  
Meal #4: 7oz (93%) lean ground beef with 1 cup romaine lettuce (dressing: 3 teaspoons ev olive oil and 3 teaspoons balsamic vinegar) and 1 tablespoon flaxseed oil.  
Meal #5: same as meal #3.  
Meal #6: same as meal #1.  

195lb male  
Meal #1: 5 whole eggs.  
Meal #2: 8oz chicken breast and 1/3 cup almonds.  
Meal #3: 50g whey protein isolate with 1.5 tablespoon natural peanut butter.  
Meal #4: 8oz fish with 1/3 cup almonds.  
Meal #5: 55g whey protein isolate with 1.5 tablespoon natural peanut butter (post workout).  
Meal #6: same as meal #1.  

172lbs at 11%bf with protein and veggies days incorporated  
3X P-F, 2X P-V  

Pro-Fat  
Meal #1: 4 whole eggs with 4 egg-whites.  
Meal #2: 6oz chicken (cooked) and 1/3 cup raw almonds.  
Meal #3: 40g whey protein and 1.5 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.  
Meal #4: 6oz red meat (cooked) with 1 cup asparagus.  
Meal #5: same as meal #3.  
Meal #6: same as meal #1.  

Pro-veggie  
Meal #1: 12 egg-whites.  
Meal #2: 6oz chicken (cooked) and 1 cup asparagus.  
Meal #3: 40g whey protein with water.  
Meal #4: 6oz tuna and 1 cup asparagus.  
Meal #5: same as meal #3.  
Meal #6: same as meal #1. 

 
Coming off the diet...
When coming off the diet I'd advise starting at 100g carbs per day of quality complex carbs and gradually phase in an extra 30g carbs to your overall days meals once a week.
 
e.g.
 
Week 1
100g carbs
 
Week 2 
130g carbs
 
Week 3 
160g carbs 
 
and so on until you find you are putting on fat and then drop it down 30g.  You've found your sweet spot.  When gains stop again, drop in a further 30g per day and follow the above protocol.
post edited by Papa Lazarou - 2012/01/17 12:41:45
#2
CitizenKane
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 12:57:53 (permalink)
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Good thread!

"Be adequate"
 
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donnyboy
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 13:09:53 (permalink)
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Nice one Papa 


Mods - Any chance of making this a sticky ?
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klein
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 14:29:42 (permalink)
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Papa has been good enough to take the time to answer a number of questions for me in the other thread. I have listed the Q&A below for the benefit of others, pleasantries etc removed for clarity:

Q)
I am in fairly decent shape at the moment but want to be in better shape (a better shape!) for my holiday in three weeks time, do you think it is worthwhile doing this diet for only three weeks or would i be wasting the effort?
A)
3 weeks will lose you a good amount of weight - you may however flatten out as you muscles will empty of their glycogen stores.  Tough call really.


Q)
he diet suggests eating 'fibre' twice per day, what should i eat that contains fibre but no carbs??
A)
Broccoli and spinich are good for plenty of fibre and low carbs.  You could of course supplement some psyllium husk into your diet.


Q)
Also I have just last week bought whey concentrate from bulk powders, is this going to be a problem with the diet? I would really rather not go and buy isolate but will if you think it will spoil the keto.
A)
As long as the carb percentage is fairly low it won't pose a problem.

Q)
Would you think that i could drink robinsons no added sugar diluting juice with this diet?
A)
As for the drink, it depends on the content of the sugar free-ness.  Some are 0.7g per 100ml of concentrate, some are 0.2g.  I'd aim for 0.2g drinks myself and limit to no more than a couple maybe a few a day.

Q)
Can I split the first lean meat and nuts meal into two sittings, one before and one after my lunchtime workout or is it best to eat it in one go?
A)
As for eating, your body won't know/be bothered by meal timings too much as long as its spread out over the day.  Otherwise you risk getting hungry.  Other than that, will be fine.

Q)
The diet calls for 1/2 cup of nuts, I have a half cup measuring thingy and it works out to be about 60g which seems a lot, is this figure correct?
A)
15g mate, not 60g.

Q)
i just had my second tbsp of PB... now this was a heaped spoonful of reasonable proportion, not an everest sized heap... is that ok or should it be a flat tbsp?
A)
15g or there abouts.

Q)
How do you know when you are 'in' keto?
A)
Your breath stinks, your piss stinks and you stop feeling tired all the time.  The former too will also subside quickly too


Once again, thanks to Papa for his helpfulness.




post edited by klein - 2010/04/16 14:32:24
#5
swans
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 15:42:10 (permalink)
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can i change the peanut butter for anything else?

sometimes i struggle to eat the eggs in the morning, will that make a massive difference?

Thanks
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Papa Lazarou
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 15:55:12 (permalink)
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Macadamia nut oil is fine in its place of PB.  You need to eat the eggs.  It quite finely balanced, messing around with the diet will alter your results.  Bare in mind you can eat the meals in any order.
#7
swans
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 16:58:16 (permalink)
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ok, Thanks. i have also read somewhere that some people have 1 meal with plenty of carbs per week....is that right? and why?
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sporty273uk
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 20:51:34 (permalink)
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great info and great help..My one question is it says 3 to 4 days to get into ketosis? ive been doing this diet for 5 days.. i eat all what im meant to but yes times vary but apart from that im doing very well with regards to this diet.. i know its only the end of my 5th day but i havent lost an ounce? could this be normal? or is it a case of waitiing for it to kick in?
Also im taking 500mg of test cyp,this wouldnt stop me from losing weight would it? so unsure what could have caused me not to have lost an ounce?
apart from that papa l   could info,good help and most appreciated mucka.
post edited by sporty273uk - 2010/04/16 20:58:27
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big_nige
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 21:23:37 (permalink)
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been on keto all year, diet so far

morning 1 unflavoured whey shake (struggle 1st thing)

mid morn 4 boiled eggs, 3 teaspoons of 100% peanut butter

lunch 260g of chicken with spinach and 2 dessert spoons of tomato puree and 3 teaspoons of pnut b

mid afternoon tin of mackeral in olive oil

pre wo tin of tuna in olive oil

post 2 scoops of unflavoured whey

dinner same as lunch but lean minced beef

casein shake before bed with a dessert spoon of pnut butter

any 1 now the rough cals?????

#10
sporty273uk
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 21:32:14 (permalink)
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have you lost much on keto nige? and why a year?
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big_nige
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 21:35:31 (permalink)
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all year, i mean since jan. yea a few stone was a big power lifter now wanting to get ripped :) maintained alota strength just wanna get rid of abit more fat
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Papa Lazarou
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 21:43:06 (permalink)
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swans

ok, Thanks. i have also read somewhere that some people have 1 meal with plenty of carbs per week....is that right? and why?



After the first month where you have cheat meal on the 14th and 28th day you do have a cheat meal or carb day weekly of up to around 500g (dependant on your size) carbs.  This is to keep your metabolism ticking over and up to speed.  Your metabolism slows right down when you go into keto and if you didn't carb up fat losses will be less.  Bare in mind when you do the carb day you are re-filling you muscle with glycogen too, so its very hard to put on fat unless you over eat or eat too much fat.  On this day proteins should be moderate.
#13
Papa Lazarou
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/16 21:45:48 (permalink)
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sporty273uk

great info and great help..My one question is it says 3 to 4 days to get into ketosis? ive been doing this diet for 5 days.. i eat all what im meant to but yes times vary but apart from that im doing very well with regards to this diet.. i know its only the end of my 5th day but i havent lost an ounce? could this be normal? or is it a case of waitiing for it to kick in?
Also im taking 500mg of test cyp,this wouldnt stop me from losing weight would it? so unsure what could have caused me not to have lost an ounce?
apart from that papa l   could info,good help and most appreciated mucka.



What have you been eating and which brands?  Have you been following it or approximating?  Things should start happening soon.   Mind you, did you start the AAS at the same time as the diet?
#14
klein
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/17 09:27:15 (permalink)
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I am on day six and have just come off the scale 5lbs lighter, I am natural though so that may be the difference.

Chuffed with the loss, it 'looks' like mostly fat, my waist has come right in but my lifts in the gym are staying the same and on a few exercises actually going up which is a surprise. 

Days 1-3 I had a very slight headache at times, felt slightly spaced out and was super tired at night, day four I felt fit as a fiddle again and back to normal. I got bad breath (according to the missus!) but i cannot say i noticed the smelly P. 

A welcome side effect for me has been that my skin has become really good looking, all of the dry patches on my body have vanished, spots and blemishes have went too! I put this down to the addition of the oily fish, evoo and loads of water.

HTH

post edited by klein - 2010/04/17 09:36:53
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Burney
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/17 09:37:30 (permalink)
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Good read. Thanks.
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gee39
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/17 09:56:18 (permalink)
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ive been doing this diet a few weeks now its the first time i have tryed it.. and things are looking good ive lost a good few pounds.. problem is that the last week or so ive been getting bad headaches in the morning when i wake up... is this normal ???

steroids dont make champions. they just make champions in to better champions.
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THE_MANN
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/17 10:38:50 (permalink)
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Increase water intake maye gee39?

One thing which may be worth putting out there is that when i did my Keto (not neccessarily the DP diet) i had loads of sides like headaches, lethargy etc i put this down to the carbs in my PB even though it was only about 3g's worth.

It may be worth while experimenting to see if removing these would help, it certainly helped me :)

lilbigman

I think they are trying to out-alpha you.




#18
HicSuntDracones
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/17 14:14:22 (permalink)
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I'm curious if any vegetarians have tried to do this?

Obviously you need to substitute in some other protein source for the chicken and salmon. How low carb do the protein sources need to be?

For example Quorn pieces and Tofu are staples for me:

Quorn (per 100g)
16.3g Protein
4.5g Carbs (1.1g sugars)
2.6g Fat
107 kcals

Tofu (per 100g)
16.6g Protein
2.5g Carbs (1.0g sugars)
18.3g Fat
241 kcals

Would those be suitable?
#19
gee39
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Re:Dave Palumbo Keto Diet Questions - Ask them here! 2010/04/17 16:11:04 (permalink)
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thanks.. The_man i will give it a go....

steroids dont make champions. they just make champions in to better champions.
#20
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