Visit 1 Rep Max Clothing - Heavy duty, high quality and stylish gym wear for the hard training athlete. Clothing designed with bodybuilders and weightlifters in mind!

Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex?

Author
badbear
New Member
  • Total Posts : 6
  • Reward points: 774
  • Joined: 2009/07/14 17:11:49
  • Location: Dorset
  • Status: offline
2009/07/14 17:20:58 (permalink)

Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex?

OK guys, I know I might get flamed for this, but please think carefully before replying as I value your opinions:
 
I see cycles getting increasing complex, with pyramids, ester-overlaps, arguements over the amount of hours d/bol remains active before you need to pop another tab, etc etc. Whilst I appreciate that careful planning is required for top-level competitors, and of course PCT must always be spot on, cannot decent gains be made from much simplier cycles? Particularly for non-competitors who are just looking to get beyond their genetics and put on consistant, sustainable gains.
 
Whatever happened to the old "six weeks on, six weeks off, packing it on" mentallity?
 
 
#1

17 Replies Related Threads

    dirtyvest
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 48013
    • Reward points: 13326
    • Joined: 2002/04/11 22:19:49
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 17:41:51 (permalink)
    I'm not so sure that you will see people here over complicating things but many do get into the more is better mentality and make cycles overly complicated.

    Many competative bbers don't get too fancy with their cycles until they get towards comps where the timings etc become more important

    Limits, like fear, are often just an illusion: MJ 12/9/09
    My journal
    #2
    All4n
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 5223
    • Reward points: 9151
    • Joined: 2006/04/29 22:09:26
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 17:45:34 (permalink)
    Yes, they can. Jab 1g of test once a week, eat well, train well and you will grow. No doubt about it. Don't even have split the jabs either, 4ml once a week no problem. The "complexity" comes into play by people trying to optimise results but it is also down to a good bit of bodybuilding OCD

    But do remember that altho "old school" methods may work they may not always be the best way to go about things. People learn and develop all the time. New theories are learnt, new methods etc. It doesn't mean the old ways don't work it just means they may not be the best way to go about things. But you are right, sometimes people make things more complicated than they should be. But this goes down to diet/training as well. Most people will probably loose more LBM from stressing about diet/training (stress = rise in cortisol = catabolism) than they will gain from "optimising" things. That's not to say you shouldn't try and get things right, but the basics should always be remembered. Follow the fundamentals and build from there, just don't forget the basics. 
    #3
    drab4
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 37995
    • Reward points: 9495
    • Joined: 2002/02/26 19:02:40
    • Location: United Kingdom
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 18:48:35 (permalink)
    I think steroid cycles have become somewhat less complex over the last ten or fifteen years. I couldn't comment before that though

    What can make cycles more complex these days is the addition of multiple peptides. Although of course, not everybody uses those


    #4
    dean c
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 3121
    • Reward points: 3449
    • Joined: 2007/01/11 17:29:08
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 19:28:14 (permalink)
    what i have noticed is people on forums gettting obsessed about what cycle ,8 or 10 weeks ,mast or winny ,tren or deca ,deca or test etc etc etc .

    ive found myself that it really isnt that important ,just bang the stuff in ,rotate compounds and thats it .
    i really really dont see the need for things like masteron ,winny ,primo etc being needed by most users especially begginers

    i think attention to detail is  so much more important with diet/training ,thats when ive really seen a difference

    i used to have a handle on life but it broke
    #5
    Scott32
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 5539
    • Reward points: 4733
    • Joined: 2005/10/20 21:17:57
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 19:42:23 (permalink)
    Dean your post somes it up for me, unless i am doing contest prep stuff or under 10% bf the only 4 meds i use are test, deca, tren, dbol or oxy.

    #6
    tac
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 9610
    • Reward points: 8097
    • Joined: 2005/05/13 17:34:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 20:35:53 (permalink)
    IMO/IME a lot of forums encourage complex cycles, often because theres a supply chain linked to the forum (NO, not this one, dont take umbrage!) and sources need to sell gear.

    There is very little need to be using anything other than good 'ol fashioned test for a first (few) cycles, then maybe throw a second, more anabolic/less androgenic compound in later, with maybe an oral.

    Thats it.

    There's no excuse for 6 month cycles using 10 different compounds at different times in different combinations with slin, hGH, IGF etc thrown in for good measure unless you're expecting to gain your pro card anytime soon.

    But gym rats loooove complicated cycles, just like they loooove complicated routines rather than just getting in the gym and squatting, deading and pressing


    #7
    zr120
    Senior Member
    • Total Posts : 202
    • Reward points: 4183
    • Joined: 2007/10/13 22:17:03
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 21:09:34 (permalink)
    personally i think its down to getting the best from a cycle. People want to know that their maximising gains for their money/time/hard work etc
    #8
    Paracelsus
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 6417
    • Reward points: 6754
    • Joined: 2006/06/17 03:03:07
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 21:11:39 (permalink)

    There is very little need to be using anything other than good 'ol fashioned test for a first (few) cycles, then maybe throw a second, more anabolic/less androgenic compound in later, with maybe an oral.

    Thats it.


    This is what I'm doing, and it's going great.


    But gym rats loooove complicated cycles, just like they loooove complicated routines rather than just getting in the gym and squatting, deading and pressing


    Totally, I see a lot of people umming and ahhing about what new meds to use/how to use them, when they are probably better off spending that time doing more and harder training. Think it's a novelty thing, kind of treating these drugs like sweets.

    Problem with what we do is that it's not properly studied (unlike say, combination chemotherapy - drugs stacked for synergistic effect), so anyone can make up a stack, put some theory behind it and there's another new cycle.
    #9
    arnold84
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 1812
    • Reward points: 3495
    • Joined: 2006/12/17 22:41:54
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 22:22:25 (permalink)
    tac

    IMO/IME a lot of forums encourage complex cycles, often because theres a supply chain linked to the forum (NO, not this one, dont take umbrage!) and sources need to sell gear.

    There is very little need to be using anything other than good 'ol fashioned test for a first (few) cycles, then maybe throw a second, more anabolic/less androgenic compound in later, with maybe an oral.

    Thats it.

    There's no excuse for 6 month cycles using 10 different compounds at different times in different combinations with slin, hGH, IGF etc thrown in for good measure unless you're expecting to gain your pro card anytime soon.

    But gym rats loooove complicated cycles, just like they loooove complicated routines rather than just getting in the gym and squatting, deading and pressing


    Agree with your statement apart from supply chain link comment, i think people get excited about trying new compounds and stacking ridiculas amounts of aas rather than concentrating on the basics of diet/training. Ive read many peoples threads regarding their proposed OTT cycles etc and when ive finally seen their pics i simply dont think that their physic warrants the amount of aas and cycles they have done.
    #10
    Hapiface
    Olympian Member
    • Total Posts : 808
    • Reward points: 1246
    • Joined: 2008/12/03 00:14:27
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 22:37:33 (permalink)
    LMAO, comments like adding the masteron for the vascularity, winny to harden up for the final 4 weeks make me laugh.
    If people actually knew how their body and diet worked they wouldn't need any of the meds.
    Test is all you need for a good few years. If you can't grow on Test then you should give up.

    Some think that if they double the dose and eat lots they will add even more muscle. See these all the time- puffed up with water, look large in baggy clothes but **** with them off.

    Bodybuilding doesn't have to be complex in the early stages, people just want it to be- fast route to getting big.
    #11
    Paracelsus
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 6417
    • Reward points: 6754
    • Joined: 2006/06/17 03:03:07
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 22:47:40 (permalink)
    Hapiface

    LMAO, comments like adding the masteron for the vascularity, winny to harden up for the final 4 weeks make me laugh.
    If people actually knew how their body and diet worked they wouldn't need any of the meds.


    I don't get this either - it obviously applies to a pre-comp cycle, but to a bulking cycle? Seems to be missing the point to me, or perhaps I'm missing the point. You can't harden up at 15-20% BF, and even if you did, it'd be for a few weeks while you're on the drugs, then it's back to normal - what's the point unless you're competing in that timeframe?


    #12
    Hapiface
    Olympian Member
    • Total Posts : 808
    • Reward points: 1246
    • Joined: 2008/12/03 00:14:27
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 23:22:58 (permalink)
    Exactly- just the **** you get on forums unfortunately- same sort of **** as Dbol cycles will give you niothig as you lose everythinbg once you come off. Or Oxys kill your liver. Don't cycle more than 6weeks with an oral. Always run a PCT (real favourite!) and many other idiocies.

    Lot of it due to the sources wanting to make an extra buck though- buy this test, will make you big, but have some tren for the strength. You will need some mast for the bloat, may as well add in some winny for the final few weeks to get the abs out for the ladies. You ever tried growth mate? Yeah, really good stuff. will double your muscle gains and make you lose fat. Here, buy 200ius.

    See it all the time...
    #13
    drab4
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 37995
    • Reward points: 9495
    • Joined: 2002/02/26 19:02:40
    • Location: United Kingdom
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/14 23:52:20 (permalink)
    There's a tendency for people to overcomplicate most aspects of life really

    It's certainly not restricted to weight training. In the general forum just now there have been some posts about the "pick up artist" scene. For anyone not familiar with this, it's a bunch of geeks massively overcomplicating how to talk to women!

    It seems humans have a tendency to over-think anything they are interested in. Supplements are no exception

    Then again most times there's no harm in it. As long as a person doesn't go completely crazy, a bit of experimentation is fine


    #14
    badbear
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 6
    • Reward points: 774
    • Joined: 2009/07/14 17:11:49
    • Location: Dorset
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/15 04:20:59 (permalink)
    Wow, cheers guys I really appreciate all the up-front opinions and no-one biting my head off for asking!
     
    Particularly thought the "If you can't grow on test, give up" comment was very true with so many people using the gear as a crutch for crap training/diet.
     
    A doorman I work with - who is one truly huge ****er - summed up the secret of getting huge...
     
    "Arse cheek full of Test, never stop eating, and squat till you puke"
     
    Now that's gotta be old-school
    #15
    Paracelsus
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 6417
    • Reward points: 6754
    • Joined: 2006/06/17 03:03:07
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/15 11:51:53 (permalink)
    drab4
    In the general forum just now there have been some posts about the "pick up artist" scene. For anyone not familiar with this, it's a bunch of geeks massively overcomplicating how to talk to women!


    Seems a bit more sinister to me than that, but yeah, agree with what you're saying.
    #16
    angelfan
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 1371
    • Reward points: 3988
    • Joined: 2007/10/16 22:15:46
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/15 20:46:53 (permalink)
    I agree with what has been said I personally think people are not getting the gains they want so they wrongly think adding another compound will make all the difference. or doing some fancy staggering cycle with Mast, winny, Primo, Tren and a little bit of Dbol and Test thrown in. will make them into the next Mr O. What aload of Bull. 

    Just keep it simple I have tried every gear going over the years and I have found you only need 3 or 4 compounds max.  I only use the following and rotate them round. 

    Sust
    Deca
    Tren Ace
    Winny  ( sometimes ) 

    I ve found you only need Test either ( Sust, Test E, Test C, or Test P ) 
    Tren or Deca some people cannot handle Tren so I recommend Deca for them. I personally prefer Tren Ace

    Sometimes Winny can be thrown in for a summer cycle. So thats it dead simple. either 

    Test and Deca
    Test and Tren

    You could gain for years just of these two compounds  
    #17
    angelfan
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 1371
    • Reward points: 3988
    • Joined: 2007/10/16 22:15:46
    • Status: offline
    Re:Do cycles 'really' have to be so complex? 2009/07/15 20:46:54 (permalink)
    I agree with what has been said I personally think people are not getting the gains they want so they wrongly think adding another compound will make all the difference. or doing some fancy staggering cycle with Mast, winny, Primo, Tren and a little bit of Dbol and Test thrown in. will make them into the next Mr O. What aload of Bull. 

    Just keep it simple I have tried every gear going over the years and I have found you only need 3 or 4 compounds max.  I only use the following and rotate them round. 

    Sust
    Deca
    Tren Ace
    Winny  ( sometimes ) 

    I ve found you only need Test either ( Sust, Test E, Test C, or Test P ) 
    Tren or Deca some people cannot handle Tren so I recommend Deca for them. I personally prefer Tren Ace

    Sometimes Winny can be thrown in for a summer cycle. So thats it dead simple. either 

    Test and Deca
    Test and Tren

    You could gain for years just of these two compounds  
    #18
    Jump to:
    ©2017 All content is copyright of MuscleTalk.co.uk and its use elsewhere is prohibited. (posting guidelines | privacy | advertise | contact us | supported by)
    © 2017 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.5