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Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this

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bateZ
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2005/07/21 16:11:01 (permalink)

Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this

As we all know; Im on 250mg test-e mon and friday. Problem is I dont feel good at all. I feel like I have a total hangover, I have no appetite, Im tired and I feel so **** that I cant train or eat properly. Anyone experienced this before? Ive had it for 2 weeks now. Im also extremely sensitive to sunlight or the warmth that it brings, if I get real warm, I feel like I have to throw up. Noone here can tell me what this is as Ive tried to ask 3-4 times. Getting really depressed Theres also stomach ache and constant nausea. The nausea makes it hard to eat properly and work out properly, as it flares up when I work out.
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    Valley Fitness
    drab4
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    RE: Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this 2005/07/21 16:24:18 (permalink)
    People call this "sust flu".

    You can get it with any steroid though. Flu-like symptoms, that resolve after a few weeks. My brother has just been throught the exact same thing. Lasted about 3 weeks for him, but now he's fine.
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    Tanetel
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    RE: Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this 2005/07/21 17:03:15 (permalink)
    So do you carry on through the cycle?
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    PartyBoy
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    RE: Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this 2005/07/21 17:17:01 (permalink)
    Yes

     
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    bateZ
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    RE: Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this 2005/07/21 18:33:16 (permalink)
    So. if this is not over due next week, something else is wrong, non? As Ive had this for 2 weeks. or is it possible to have the flu throughout the whole cycle?
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    bateZ
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    RE: Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this 2005/07/21 18:35:00 (permalink)
    any ways to get well faster? Except for the vitamin c thingy ofcourse
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    carl57
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    RE: Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this 2005/07/21 20:21:47 (permalink)
    i had a similar thing on my last cycle, felt like total crap
    almost passing out in the gym, no energy at all
    week 3 was when i started to feel good again
    it will pass in time m8
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    PartyBoy
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    RE: Doc? noone seem to know the answer for this 2005/07/21 20:32:59 (permalink)
    Courtesy of TheDoctor:


    There are various thoughts why this occurs but one with merit is due to Etiocholanolone, which is a metabolite formed from testosterone.

    So injecting large amounts of testosterone may lead to increased levels of Etiocholanolone, which can act as a pyrogen ie causing fever.

    So it doesnt just occur with Sustanon but potentially with all testosterone preparations but more noticeably with those containing shorter acting esters such as Propionate and Sustanon because they cause a rapid and higher peak in test levels.

    Only way to be certain would be to measure Etiocholanolone blood levels in a roid user at the time of "sust flu".
    Proc Soc Exp Biol Med. 1998 Apr;217(4):435-8. Related Articles, Links


    Pyrogenicity of etiocholanolone and interleukin-1 in New and Old World Monkeys.

    Steinetz BG, Randolph C, Werner R, Mahoney CJ.

    New York University Medical Center, Laboratory for Experimental Medicine and Surgery in Primates, Tuxedo 10987, USA. steinetz@charlotte.med.nyu.edu

    Etiocholanolone (5beta-androstan-3alpha-ol-17-one; designated E) is one of the major products of metabolism of testosterone and androstenedione (androst-4-ene-3,17-dione) in many mammalian species, including humans. E and several other 5beta-reduced steroids have been found to induce fever in humans. The pyrogenic effect of these steroids has been shown to be due to the release of interleukin-1 (IL-1) from the leukocytes that are mobilized in response to the steroid injections. Old World Monkeys such as Rhesus monkeys (Macaca mu/atta), metabolize androgens similarly to humans, and E is a normal metabolite. However, New World Monkeys such as Squirrel monkeys (Saimiri sciureus), lack hepatic 5alpha- and 5beta-steroid reductases and excrete androgens primarily in an unaltered state; E is not produced. Therefore, we postulate that Squirrel monkeys likewise may have lost the ability to respond to 17-ketosteroids such as E. To test this hypothesis, adult male Rhesus and Squirrel monkeys were treated with E, and their rectal temperatures were recorded over a 24-hr period. Rhesus monkeys exhibited a rise of up to 3 degrees F following E injection. Squirrel monkeys, on the other hand, did not exhibit any increase in rectal temperature over the 24-hr period, even when doses up to 250 times the effective human dose were used. However, both species responded to injected IL-1alpha with a robust increase in rectal temperature. The data show that E is pyrogenic in Rhesus, but not Squirrel monkeys. The findings support the notion that injected E may induce release of IL-1 in Rhesus monkeys, but not in Squirrel monkeys




    Horm Metab Res. 1988 Jun;20(6):364-6. Related Articles, Links


    A case of periodic fever--reevaluation of etiocholanolone fever as an established clinical entity.

    Watanobe H.

    First Division of Internal Medicine, Aomori City Hospital, Japan.

    A case of periodic fever is reported in a 28-year-old male. The patient's clinical and laboratory findings fulfilled diagnostic criteria for etiocholanolone fever (EF). The most crucial endocrine data comprised higher values of both urinary etiocholanolone/androsterone ratio and plasma unconjugated etiocholanolone on febrile days, as compared to the values on afebrile days. However, the author hesitates to promptly diagnose him as EF, because of arguments against EF as an isolated clinical entity, and also because of the presence of auto-antibodies suggestive of an early stage of collagen disease(s). If the patient should develop a florid collagen disease in later clinical course, this case could be another evidence against EF as an established clinical entity, thus a careful follow-up is needed.



    Br J Dermatol. 1981 Jul;105(1):109-12. Related Articles, Links


    Urticaria in association with etiocholanolone fever.

    Goerz G, Bedbur M, Graef V.

    A 17-year-old girl is reported with a history of recurrent febrile episodes during her menstrual bleeding accompanied by a generalised exanthem. Increased plasma levels of unbound etiocholanolone were noticed during the febrile attacks</b>. Both the fever and the skin eruption could be suppressed by oral contraceptives.

    PIP: Etiocholanolone is a physiologically occurring metabolite of testosterone >and androstenedione which are secreted by adrenals, testes, and ovaries. Free, unconjugated etiocholanolone is formed in the liver and is found in the blood in very low concentrations. Usually, cases of etiocholanolone fever can be associated with symptoms such as elevated ESR, leukocytosis, myalgia, arthralgia, abdominal pain, diarrhea, and vomiting. In the case discussed in this paper a 17 year old girl had been suffering from headaches, vomiting, and fever during the 1st days of menstrual bleeding for several years accompanied by a supervening generalized urticarial eruption lasting for 3-5 days. The patient's mother was found to have elevated levels of unconjugated etiocholanolone in her blood which raised the possibility of a genetically determined defect in the conjugation of this steroid in the liver. The parallel appearance of skin eruptions and the febrile attacks leads to the interpretation that both events are triggered by the increase of the unconjugated etiocholanolone before and during menstruation. With high-dose glucocortisteriod therapy (100 mg prednisolone daily) the fever and rash could be suppressed within several hours of administration. In addition, with the administration of oral contraceptives Ovoresta M and later Lyndiol only one relapse was noted during 18 months.



    post edited by PartyBoy - 2005/07/21 20:42:13

     
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