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Floydy
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2015/03/07 04:11:53 (permalink)
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Energy without drugs

I work a permanent night shift and I'm finding it increasing more difficult to retain enough energy for my training needs. I'm no spring chicken anymore and whilst I can put in a volume-laden or even a fulfilling worthwhile session, these are always at the weekend when my body has recovered from the unsociable hours I work. My journal's recent entries reflect my decline in performance.

I'm looking for the best product I can buy to give me a decent energy boost for a couple of hours without being full of sugar and something I can buy legally off the shelf from the chemist. I prefer NOT to be bombarded with online supplement offers thanks, unless you have a specific recommendation that actually provides the results I'm looking for.

I have a doctors appointment for next week also to see what he advises.

Thanks.

#1
phil3030
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Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 08:35:59 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Floydy 2015/03/07 08:50:39
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Caffeine tablets are a simple option.

Eat fruit and nuts.

Drink enough water.

What time do you normally train? If when getting up, eat a proper dinner and full breakfast before training.

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Floydy
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Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 08:46:59 (permalink)
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phil3030
Caffeine tablets are a simple option.

Eat fruit and nuts.

Drink enough water.

What time do you normally train? If when getting up, eat a proper dinner and full breakfast before training.

Thanks Phil, smart advice.
I work 10pm-6am so it's a quick cup of tea and some Weetabix or porridge and bed for 6.45am.
Up around 1pm and there isn't time for a large meal as I need to be at the gym for 2.30pm at the latest, getting home no later than 4pm. Then a big meal at teatime and my pre-shift nap at 6.30 for two hours to catch up.

I eat plenty of fruit at work to keep me going.
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phil3030
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Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 08:53:18 (permalink)
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how about eating a pre-prepared meal at 6am, then the porridge/W'bix pre-training on waking?

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Floydy
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 08:56:34 (permalink)
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phil3030
how about eating a pre-prepared meal at 6am, then the porridge/W'bix pre-training on waking?

I used to do that mate, but I found eating a large meal straight before bed piled on the pounds. I eat just enough to help me sleep now and something milky helps blot out any daytime noise outside also.
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Celt
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Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 09:02:20 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby simonboyle 2015/03/08 03:55:41
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Just looking at your most recent workout in the journal mate and one thing that jumps up is the length of time you're likely at the gym and the amount of different exercises.

I wonder if a more focused and intense 45 minute workout might suit you better? Perhaps 3-4 exercises with real focus on a compound followed by 2/3 assistance exercises for whichever groups you're training?

It could be good for energy levels, and the change may work psychologically too.
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Floydy
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 09:28:33 (permalink)
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Celt
Just looking at your most recent workout in the journal mate and one thing that jumps up is the length of time you're likely at the gym and the amount of different exercises.

I wonder if a more focused and intense 45 minute workout might suit you better? Perhaps 3-4 exercises with real focus on a compound followed by 2/3 assistance exercises for whichever groups you're training?

It could be good for energy levels, and the change may work psychologically too.

I see your reasoning mate. That is my new mid-week session I think. I get so short of energy during the week that I have to fit this in as a catch up for my weekend training which I have much more time for. It's a very fine line these days and I hate to call the age card, but it is now a major factor. I'm on my feet constantly for eight hours during the night doing physical work and it's seriously damaging. I see the other guys I work with who don't exercise and who look completely wasted and that is why I need to keep my training going in the most practical way I can.
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Bob Mcbobberson
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 09:48:27 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Floydy 2015/03/07 12:22:36
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Probably not what you want to hear but there's no magic pill to cure your energy problems, even caffeine is not going to give you energy, it might make you feel a bit more sharp and give you the illusion of having more energy but at the end of the day you're going to be just as tired when that effect wears off, maybe more-so since you pushed yourself harder.   I worked nights before too so I feel your pain.
Looking at your journal and you're doing over 150 reps in one day which is quite a lot, you're tired because you're working too hard and training too hard.  I understand you're training days are limited maybe its harder to get to the gym because of the night shifts so try to be more practical about this.  First I'd take a deload week.  All that smith machine work, lets think about it... you could do that midweek at home doing some kind of pushup workout or bench dips, or a half decent set of dumbells.  See how much you can move to another day so you don't have these massive burnout sessions.  I dunno, just some ideas to spread the work out a bit.  You don't have to leave it all in the gym every session.  Avoid chasing that pump as it doesn't directly correlate to gains

Guess if I had to give you 1 piece of advice it would be to get to the root of the problem, not try to power through with some supplements, you'll only crash harder eventually.
post edited by Bob Mcbobberson - 2015/03/07 09:57:33
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paulthebuilder
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 09:52:12 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Barbarian999 2015/03/07 19:45:07
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A diet which manages insulin fluctuations would be a start bud.
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Dumbat
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 10:10:26 (permalink)
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What is your sleep pattern like ? do you wake up feeling refreshed? 
There are quite a few supplements that can help the "older" athlete improve sleep quality. 
I am 48 and have noticed decline in restorative sleep. 

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phil3030
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 11:04:47 (permalink)
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Genetics 5HTP elite sleep is a very good aid for restorative sleep

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profplums
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 11:19:19 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Floydy 2015/03/07 12:37:11
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Caffeine is only going to work short term, you develop tachyphylaxis to the dose and will need to continue to up it, which will have additional side effects, such as difficulty getting to sleep.  
 
A drug like modafinil may help, but I would imagine it might be difficult to get it from the GP, but possibly worth a go on the information you are giving.  I would imagine it is difficult to get because (a) they won't prescribe it very often so might not know much about it, and (b) it probably has quite a decent after market price and they might think you want it to sell it - guess this will depend upon your current relationship with the GP.  Here is a wikipedia link so you can have a read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil 
 
Other than that it might be that 6 hours of sleep a night is not effective for you any more?  Have you thought about getting a device to measure your sleep pattern, how much time are you in REM for example?  App for an iPhone or the witching devices pulse probably cheapest one, after the iPhone app....
 
Hope that helps
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Dumbat
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 11:23:44 (permalink)
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The draw back with Modafinil is that is has a long half life and can be detrimental to sleep. 

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#13
Dumbat
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 11:29:53 (permalink)
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5 HTP can help if one is deficient in serotonin.
 5HTP can also be counter productive for sleep. 

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robert123
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 12:04:59 (permalink)
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Could try berocca, theres one that contains guarana to.
 
 
 
 
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phil3030
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 12:16:29 (permalink)
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Dumbat
5 HTP can help if one is deficient in serotonin.
 5HTP can also be counter productive for sleep. 


True but there is a strong link between night shift workers and low serotonin levels...

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Floydy
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 12:27:32 (permalink)
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Bob Mcbobberson
Probably not what you want to hear but there's no magic pill to cure your energy problems, even caffeine is not going to give you energy, it might make you feel a bit more sharp and give you the illusion of having more energy but at the end of the day you're going to be just as tired when that effect wears off, maybe more-so since you pushed yourself harder.   I worked nights before too so I feel your pain.
Looking at your journal and you're doing over 150 reps in one day which is quite a lot, you're tired because you're working too hard and training too hard.  I understand you're training days are limited maybe its harder to get to the gym because of the night shifts so try to be more practical about this.  First I'd take a deload week.  All that smith machine work, lets think about it... you could do that midweek at home doing some kind of pushup workout or bench dips, or a half decent set of dumbells.  See how much you can move to another day so you don't have these massive burnout sessions.  I dunno, just some ideas to spread the work out a bit.  You don't have to leave it all in the gym every session.  Avoid chasing that pump as it doesn't directly correlate to gains

Guess if I had to give you 1 piece of advice it would be to get to the root of the problem, not try to power through with some supplements, you'll only crash harder eventually.


There's some absolutely superb wisdom in your post here mate, thank you. I will take heed on the training front especially. I don't train at home for the basic reason that I need to get myself out for some fresh air and see actual daylight during the day. The gym is only five minutes away and that does me fine, plus it's no hassle jumping straight onto the apparatus. But thanks for the suggestion and you are completely cock-on with the night working issues.
I saw a guy today actually who was squeezing one of those energy gel packets into his mouth before exercise. He says he swears by them for a quick boost.
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Floydy
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 12:31:01 (permalink)
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Dumbat
What is your sleep pattern like ? do you wake up feeling refreshed? 
There are quite a few supplements that can help the "older" athlete improve sleep quality. 
I am 48 and have noticed decline in restorative sleep. 


I usually sleep very well unless there's a lot of racket going on in the street and only get out of bed if I feel refreshed. Those supplements for the "older" guy seem interesting. What are they mate?
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Floydy
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 12:35:35 (permalink)
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profplums
Caffeine is only going to work short term, you develop tachyphylaxis to the dose and will need to continue to up it, which will have additional side effects, such as difficulty getting to sleep.  
 
A drug like modafinil may help, but I would imagine it might be difficult to get it from the GP, but possibly worth a go on the information you are giving.  I would imagine it is difficult to get because (a) they won't prescribe it very often so might not know much about it, and (b) it probably has quite a decent after market price and they might think you want it to sell it - guess this will depend upon your current relationship with the GP.  Here is a wikipedia link so you can have a read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil 
 
Other than that it might be that 6 hours of sleep a night is not effective for you any more?  Have you thought about getting a device to measure your sleep pattern, how much time are you in REM for example?  App for an iPhone or the witching devices pulse probably cheapest one, after the iPhone app....
 
Hope that helps


I'm fine with the sleep mate thanks. 5.5-6 hours in the morning then another couple before my shift. Some guys at work sleep right through the day but I see that as utterly wasteful. Living just the weekend and seeing no daylight. No thanks.
I'll pass on the modafinil but I'll give the link a read. Thanks all the same bud.
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Floydy
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Re: Re: Re: Energy without drugs 2015/03/07 12:37:56 (permalink)
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profplums
Caffeine is only going to work short term, you develop tachyphylaxis to the dose and will need to continue to up it, which will have additional side effects, such as difficulty getting to sleep.  
 
A drug like modafinil may help, but I would imagine it might be difficult to get it from the GP, but possibly worth a go on the information you are giving.  I would imagine it is difficult to get because (a) they won't prescribe it very often so might not know much about it, and (b) it probably has quite a decent after market price and they might think you want it to sell it - guess this will depend upon your current relationship with the GP.  Here is a wikipedia link so you can have a read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil 
 
Other than that it might be that 6 hours of sleep a night is not effective for you any more?  Have you thought about getting a device to measure your sleep pattern, how much time are you in REM for example?  App for an iPhone or the witching devices pulse probably cheapest one, after the iPhone app....
 
Hope that helps


I'm fine with the sleep mate thanks. 5.5-6 hours in the morning then another couple before my shift. Some guys at work sleep right through the day but I see that as utterly wasteful. Living just the weekend and seeing no daylight. No thanks.
I'll pass on the modafinil but I'll give the link a read. Thanks all the same bud.
robert123
Could try berocca, theres one that contains guarana to.
Worth looking at thanks pal. 
 
 
 




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