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Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament

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JohnOvManchester
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2008/05/17 16:56:16 (permalink)
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Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament

Hi,

Recently built my squat back up (only 140kg) after knee injury/op.
I might have done this too fast... not too fast after the op as that was 2 years ago now but I have recently got back into training again properly.

Now I have a new problem just in my right knee below (as in down not under) the knee cap (patella).
It's on anatomy diagrams as the patella tendon... but it's actually a ligament I think (less blood supply, harder to mend?)


It gets worse with squats, leg extesion and leg press. I did it a few weeks ago, it gets a bit better if I stay around 100kg but as soon as I try and go heavier again it flares up.
I want to still work on my legs and build them but I can not think of anything that wouldn't do more damage.

I will RICE in the mean time but...
Should I drop leg training?
Stay light for a few weeks?
Do differant exercises?
Start wrapping my knees?

Any ideas?

#1

20 Replies Related Threads

    Johnny Napalm
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 00:08:35 (permalink)
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    is it the same knee you had the op on mate?

    #2
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 01:58:51 (permalink)
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    It is mate yes. The original problems were all above and underneath the knee in both knee's but they only wanted to operate on 1 at a time and when it didn't really fix it I didn't let them go back in to cut tendons as they said it might leave me in a worse position... like double or quits didn't want to risk it as I can cope with the pain although I look like an old man going up stairs sometimes and can not slide my shoes on LOL!!!

    I never used to have trouble below the knee, I think I might have ruptured (or something) that tendon below the knee (why isn't it called a ligament... it's bone to bone???). This is only a problem in my right knee.

    #3
    Johnny Napalm
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 02:36:52 (permalink)
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    ok , im no expert by any means but heres my take on things

    it would be a shame to drop leg work altogether so a few precautions

    if your not using wraps do so now, also a thorough warm up(although im sure your doing this already)
    maybe keep your leg workouts short and intense


    on a side note, i notice from reading some of your posts that your stats are very similar to mine, height/weight, including the hoxton fin! lol incidentally i suffer from right knee trouble when squatting over three plates,after i extended my warm up to twenty minutes a session i suffer no more

    hope this helps

    JP
    #4
    Aaron Hallett
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 08:11:50 (permalink)
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    Should I drop leg training?
    Give it 2 weeks rest and evaluate after then IMO, see a GP if you havent yet

    Stay light for a few weeks?
    Rest

    Do differant exercises?
    avoid leg extensions like the plague in your case mate, these put alot of strain on the knees due to the fact they are left dangling off the edge while you lift X weight

    Start wrapping my knees?
    its to do with the tendon/ligament so i dont think wrapping will help

    Sponsored MuscleXcess Athlete 

     
     
    #5
    JohnL
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 16:32:04 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
    I never used to have trouble below the knee, I think I might have ruptured (or something) that tendon below the knee (why isn't it called a ligament... it's bone to bone???).



    It can be called both the patella ligament or the patella tendon. The Patella itself is a sesamoid bone (this means it is a bone that is embedded within the tendon itself), so technically the tendon structure attaches distally to the tibia (shin bone) and proximally to the quadriceps muscles with the patella bone itself embedded in the tendonous tissue. Hence the tendon name, as bone to muscle. However, it is commonly thought of functionally as two separate tendons (patella and quad).

    In my opinion you would probably know if you had ruptured the tendon (these things tend to be accompanied by a large snapping sound and extreme pain, also inability to straighten the leg, and inabilty to weight bear), however it is possible you could have some inflammation of the area where the tendon joins the tibia (tibial tuberosity). Best advice would be to go and see your GP when convienient, and obviously just be sensible with the workouts, squatting especially puts a large amount of stress on the patella when in flexion, so if you notice an increase in pain, stop squatting.

    Hope that helps

    John
    #6
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 17:22:57 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the replys.

    My bleeding GP will just tell me to stop.
    It's so annoying, even the consultant who did my op said stop but this is a big part of my life, I'd rather keep going until my knees are destroyed than stop...
    ...I know that sounds daft but training is more of a mental thing to me than physical.

    I thought a small tear as it keeps happening every time I go heavier again... it's not the heaviest weight people squat either, I seem to be prone to injuries at times I feel like a walking fcuk up.
    There was no noise though so probably not a tear then... it is inflammed, RICE and Ibprofen are helping.

    I need to find a solution, gutted.

    #7
    JohnL
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 17:48:43 (permalink)
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    A corticosteroid injection to the joint may help as it could reduce inflammation and pain. However you may be hard pressed to find a GP who will consent to this if you are carrying on training. Always worth asking though, and it could help with the pain you have walking up stairs. Do you mind if I ask what the original op you had was?

    Have you tried any knee supports?

    John
    #8
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 19:00:24 (permalink)
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    Original op was to see what my knee cap was "jumping" over.
    As I bend/straighten my knee it jumps (like a small thud) over something.
    The pain is like someone pushing a ball point pen into the back at the top of my knee cap... when doing squats I used to have to drop past the painful range, going down is harder the going up.

    The shaved the back of the knee cap, debrided the area up, told me my knee cap was riding to high but it looked like there was nothing structural wrong but it will get worse. My knee moved more smoothly and made less noise but it still jumped over whatever it's bumping over.

    My physio post op said my outer quads were over developed compared to the inners but it didn't apear to be pulling the knee cap out of it's track.
    When it didn't solve the "jumping" thing they offered to cut the tendons in an attempt to lower the knee cap... again they wanted to do it one leg at a time but it was a big risk as they didn't know it would solve anything and it might leave me worse off.

    Strengthening the inner quads does seem to have helped a lot, but it still jumps over something and that's where the pain is.
    Having my shoe on the floor and pushing my foot down and forwards is agony... that is when the pain is at it's worse, the stairs and riding bikes hurt but not on the same level.

    That was/is all above or behind the very top of the knee cap though... this new prob is only on the soft tissue below the knee cap.
    I have tried a strechy material pull over support, doesn't seem to do much but wraps are far more substacial so I think I will try them next.

    #9
    Drew Price
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 22:04:33 (permalink)
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    Right now you need a clear diagnosis, so lay off it and get into see someone. In the future you could get advice on the use of a pateall strap or such like but you may well to modify your training long term and also look into maximising the other important qualities in the big picture like the quads fitring patterns, gluteal strength and firing etc.

    All the best with it, and get in to see someone asap.
    #10
    Knighty
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 22:23:46 (permalink)
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    My advice would be to disregard any advice you get from an internet forum regarding injuries (You might aswell refer to your horoscope), and get back in touch with your physio!
    #11
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/19 22:59:36 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: drewsky

    Right now you need a clear diagnosis, so lay off it and get into see someone. In the future you could get advice on the use of a pateall strap or such like but you may well to modify your training long term and also look into maximising the other important qualities in the big picture like the quads fitring patterns, gluteal strength and firing etc.

    All the best with it, and get in to see someone asap.


    Is there anyone I will be able to see on the NHS do you think?
    I've come out of work no and used to be in a private health scheme... now I have new probs I don't really know where to turn as I am 100% my GP will tell me to stop.
    #12
    Wayne Cowdrey
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/20 15:12:13 (permalink)
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    Are 20 rep squats an option for you? You'd be using a moderate weight.
    #13
    Drew Price
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/20 15:22:51 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
    Is there anyone I will be able to see on the NHS do you think?
    I've come out of work no and used to be in a private health scheme... now I have new probs I don't really know where to turn as I am 100% my GP will tell me to stop.


    if it hurts when you walk up stairs then you should be referred.

    Also what do you do for a job, is it getting in the way of work?
    #14
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/20 16:33:19 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: drewsky


    ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester
    Is there anyone I will be able to see on the NHS do you think?
    I've come out of work no and used to be in a private health scheme... now I have new probs I don't really know where to turn as I am 100% my GP will tell me to stop.


    if it hurts when you walk up stairs then you should be referred.

    Also what do you do for a job, is it getting in the way of work?


    I am self employed running a beauty salon. Doesn't hinder work at all.

    I might try the GP again but I won't hold my breath, I know he will just say stop training.
    #15
    MonkFinger
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/22 14:37:13 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: JohnOvManchester

    Having my shoe on the floor and pushing my foot down and forwards is agony... that is when the pain is at it's worse, the stairs and riding bikes hurt but not on the same level.



    Christ! If something like this is causing pain then loading up to 140kg squats is madness! Drop the leg training, go see a physio or three, a doctor, I don't know who else, but fix it cause it doesn't sound like its got any better.

    Ignore the advice on this forum, few here are medically qualified and you can't diagnose via the internet!
    #16
    Dave284
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/22 15:01:01 (permalink)
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    I have pain in a similar area from an injury I sustained during the rugby season. For me box squatting has been fine, even when regualar squats have hurt.

    I think my problem is down to ankle mobility as if I stretch, pushing my toes downwards, I can feel a pull in the injured knee. Hope that helps.
    #17
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/22 15:12:54 (permalink)
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    John.

    To be honest mate, i dont think any of the above will help (R.I.C.E., etc...).

    I know how you feel in terms of your knee problem mate.

    I cannot do quad work because of my left knee, it simply wont have it, the work goes through the knee rather than through the muscle and the pain has always been horrendous in the left knee.

    Try and get an MRI scan done if you can mate.
    #18
    jim2406
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/23 09:49:12 (permalink)
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    john,

    how are your hamstrings mate?

    i have had retropatellar pain syndrome for ages in my right knee. recently i got hold of some iron woody bands and started training my hamstrings pretty much every day.

    now the pain has nearly gone.

    didnt see any mention of hamstrings in the above post, i believe most physios advocate a 3:2 strength ratio between quads and hamstrings, if that's true then with a 140k squat you should be able to do glute ham raises etc..

    also if you're going to go the internet help route visit www.kneeguru.co.uk (i have nothing to do with them, but ive had 8 knee operations and they've been pretty useful)

    jim
    #19
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: Exercises that are easy on the Patella tendon/ligament 2008/05/23 11:03:10 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO

    John.

    To be honest mate, i dont think any of the above will help (R.I.C.E., etc...).

    I know how you feel in terms of your knee problem mate.

    I cannot do quad work because of my left knee, it simply wont have it, the work goes through the knee rather than through the muscle and the pain has always been horrendous in the left knee.

    Try and get an MRI scan done if you can mate.

    MRI, xrays... everything like that has been done. They can not see anything wrong even though if you put your fingers on my knee cap and I bend it you can "feel" the problem.
    #20
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