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Hot!Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there?

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H0M3R_j4y
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 10:34:44 (permalink)
+1 (1)
I have no doubt whatsoever that there must be another form of life out there, somewhere.
 
I've watched a few random documentary's on the universe and I've always blown away by them, sometimes almost overwhelmed by the insignificance of us on our little spec of a planet. But as interesting as I do find it, I also can't help but thing sometimes, what is the point of knowing? We should be focusing on making the most of our own planet, reducing waste and emissions, investing in cleaner technologies and ending poverty and war.
 
Its big, almost impossible task I know.

 
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doc
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 11:50:27 (permalink)
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H0M3R_j4y
I have no doubt whatsoever that there must be another form of life out there, somewhere.
 
I've watched a few random documentary's on the universe and I've always blown away by them, sometimes almost overwhelmed by the insignificance of us on our little spec of a planet. But as interesting as I do find it, I also can't help but thing sometimes, what is the point of knowing? We should be focusing on making the most of our own planet, reducing waste and emissions, investing in cleaner technologies and ending poverty and war.
 
Its big, almost impossible task I know.


Is there such a thing as clean tech ?
 
In order to get to the point where we can consider clean tech it took the industrial revolution , emissions of Co2 no doubt promote growth of plant life , i am not convinced at all of man made climate change . 
Reducing waste I agree , but can we afford too ?
Ending war would be good, I just dont think its possible within the current system , poverty is impossible to eliminate, you can't eliminate Darwinism and peoples need to reproduce even in the most harsh environments. also depends on how you measure poverty , fiat currency , resources  ? I have never seen a bird of a lion poverty struck and they just live meal to meal.
 
i think even if someone invented the cleanest tech ever ( perpetual motion machine) it would be outlawed/taxed to bring us back to the point we are at now. Any sort of claimed over unity device has always been squashed and im pretty sure some of the will have been legit ( N machine for one) Meyer's hydrogen cell, pons fleischmann cold fusion, all seems to disappear even after independent verification.  Everyone accepts these as nuts because it defies the laws of physics.
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BigWig
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 12:15:45 (permalink)
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I cant see war or conflict ever ending, i think its in our nature, not that it doesnt sound great but greed and selfishness are very powerful, even if everyone lived in equality or 'peace' how long would it last before someone/some group 'innovated' or 'CAPITALISED'.
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H0M3R_j4y
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 12:56:44 (permalink)
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doc
H0M3R_j4y
I have no doubt whatsoever that there must be another form of life out there, somewhere.
 
I've watched a few random documentary's on the universe and I've always blown away by them, sometimes almost overwhelmed by the insignificance of us on our little spec of a planet. But as interesting as I do find it, I also can't help but thing sometimes, what is the point of knowing? We should be focusing on making the most of our own planet, reducing waste and emissions, investing in cleaner technologies and ending poverty and war.
 
Its big, almost impossible task I know.


Is there such a thing as clean tech ?
 
In order to get to the point where we can consider clean tech it took the industrial revolution , emissions of Co2 no doubt promote growth of plant life , i am not convinced at all of man made climate change . 
Reducing waste I agree , but can we afford too ?
Ending war would be good, I just dont think its possible within the current system , poverty is impossible to eliminate, you can't eliminate Darwinism and peoples need to reproduce even in the most harsh environments. also depends on how you measure poverty , fiat currency , resources  ? I have never seen a bird of a lion poverty struck and they just live meal to meal.
 
i think even if someone invented the cleanest tech ever ( perpetual motion machine) it would be outlawed/taxed to bring us back to the point we are at now. Any sort of claimed over unity device has always been squashed and im pretty sure some of the will have been legit ( N machine for one) Meyer's hydrogen cell, pons fleischmann cold fusion, all seems to disappear even after independent verification.  Everyone accepts these as nuts because it defies the laws of physics.


I agree with pretty much everything you have said there doc, hence why originally said it was a big, almost impossible task.
I do believe that man-made climate change is real. However, I feel that this is insignificant when compared to the worlds natural cycle of climate change. We should be investing in cleaner technologies though, because air pollution will never be a good thing, no matter how insignificant.
I have never heard of the N machine until now, so will have a look into it. I am an engineer like yourself so will find it an interesting read anyway. Although my first thought would be that although it claims to give out more enegy that it consumes, it is likely to not be feasible to replicate on a larger scale due to costs and rescources required. A lot of these theories and experiments are based on small scale models, it is when they are scaled up to a larger size when complications arise, not to mention breakdowns and maintenance costs. I'm pretty sure that if it was to work, then they would have done it by now. Power Generation companies are worth billions, and the push for cleaner generation is stronger than ever. Perpetual motion machines do work but are all small scale models, in order for one of those to turn a generator big enough to power a house, it would have to be huge. Much, much bigger than the house infact. Not feasible.
 
I'm sure everyone would like to see less waste, but not everyone would be prepared to make the personal lifestyle changes required to see the difference. Unfortunately we've gone too far the wrong way with this one and I don't think we will ever recover from it. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to never see a piece of litter again though?
 
By poverty I mean unable to eat. Like when you see these malnourished childen in 3rd world countries barely surviving past their early years. You don't see any poor animals because they eat to live, if they didn't eat they would be dead. Some people think they are poor because they can't afford any luxuries such as a new tv or a holiday, but they can still eat processed food and buy booze and fags. They aren't poor at all imo.
 
War will probably always exist sadly, whether it is over land, race or religion there wil always be someone who wants to go as far as killing in defence of there own opinion.

 
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doc
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 13:41:56 (permalink)
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H0M3R_j4y
doc
H0M3R_j4y
I have no doubt whatsoever that there must be another form of life out there, somewhere.
 
I've watched a few random documentary's on the universe and I've always blown away by them, sometimes almost overwhelmed by the insignificance of us on our little spec of a planet. But as interesting as I do find it, I also can't help but thing sometimes, what is the point of knowing? We should be focusing on making the most of our own planet, reducing waste and emissions, investing in cleaner technologies and ending poverty and war.
 
Its big, almost impossible task I know.


Is there such a thing as clean tech ?
 
In order to get to the point where we can consider clean tech it took the industrial revolution , emissions of Co2 no doubt promote growth of plant life , i am not convinced at all of man made climate change . 
Reducing waste I agree , but can we afford too ?
Ending war would be good, I just dont think its possible within the current system , poverty is impossible to eliminate, you can't eliminate Darwinism and peoples need to reproduce even in the most harsh environments. also depends on how you measure poverty , fiat currency , resources  ? I have never seen a bird of a lion poverty struck and they just live meal to meal.
 
i think even if someone invented the cleanest tech ever ( perpetual motion machine) it would be outlawed/taxed to bring us back to the point we are at now. Any sort of claimed over unity device has always been squashed and im pretty sure some of the will have been legit ( N machine for one) Meyer's hydrogen cell, pons fleischmann cold fusion, all seems to disappear even after independent verification.  Everyone accepts these as nuts because it defies the laws of physics.


I agree with pretty much everything you have said there doc, hence why originally said it was a big, almost impossible task.
I do believe that man-made climate change is real. However, I feel that this is insignificant when compared to the worlds natural cycle of climate change. We should be investing in cleaner technologies though, because air pollution will never be a good thing, no matter how insignificant.
I have never heard of the N machine until now, so will have a look into it. I am an engineer like yourself so will find it an interesting read anyway. Although my first thought would be that although it claims to give out more enegy that it consumes, it is likely to not be feasible to replicate on a larger scale due to costs and rescources required. A lot of these theories and experiments are based on small scale models, it is when they are scaled up to a larger size when complications arise, not to mention breakdowns and maintenance costs. I'm pretty sure that if it was to work, then they would have done it by now. Power Generation companies are worth billions, and the push for cleaner generation is stronger than ever. Perpetual motion machines do work but are all small scale models, in order for one of those to turn a generator big enough to power a house, it would have to be huge. Much, much bigger than the house infact. Not feasible.
 
I'm sure everyone would like to see less waste, but not everyone would be prepared to make the personal lifestyle changes required to see the difference. Unfortunately we've gone too far the wrong way with this one and I don't think we will ever recover from it. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to never see a piece of litter again though?
 
By poverty I mean unable to eat. Like when you see these malnourished childen in 3rd world countries barely surviving past their early years. You don't see any poor animals because they eat to live, if they didn't eat they would be dead. Some people think they are poor because they can't afford any luxuries such as a new tv or a holiday, but they can still eat processed food and buy booze and fags. They aren't poor at all imo.
 
War will probably always exist sadly, whether it is over land, race or religion there wil always be someone who wants to go as far as killing in defence of there own opinion.



 
Pretty good vid.
 
I am pretty sure some over unity devices work , not that they defy the laws of physics but they will reword the laws of physics . 
 
In physics and chemistry, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant; it is said to be conserved over time. This law means that energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another.
 
Well the fact that there is energy/matter and life to begin with kind of defies this law but we don't know why or how to define it .But the law itself seems to be true 100% of the time.
 
Even if someone released an over unity device and put it out for free , with schematics and video's there are that many (millions of fake machines designed to waste people's time ) that no one would pay attention and just dismiss it without looking . 
 
  decent series.
 
I have an idea for an over unity device that would be worth trying but would need help/expertise from a few different fields , even if it worked I couldn't patent it , if I did I would probably end up dead , so its very hard to actually put this together in the most efficient way or to even get people involved . Even if it worked using permanent magnets , they get degaussed over time and I have no idea how much energy went into making them in the first place , so it's hard to calculate and could be an expensive project that would waste a lot of people's time .  
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H0M3R_j4y
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 14:41:28 (permalink)
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doc
 
I have an idea for an over unity device that would be worth trying but would need help/expertise from a few different fields , even if it worked I couldn't patent it , if I did I would probably end up dead , so its very hard to actually put this together in the most efficient way or to even get people involved . Even if it worked using permanent magnets , they get degaussed over time and I have no idea how much energy went into making them in the first place , so it's hard to calculate and could be an expensive project that would waste a lot of people's time .  




Thats the point of never being able to create something that will generate more energy than is put in. There will always be energy losses, even in the most efficient of machines, which is the second law of thermodynamics.
 
The law you stated earlier is the first law of thermodynamics, the conservation of energy. Which means that energy is neither created nor destroyed, but transferred from one form to another. This law does however only apply to a closed system. Most systems are open which is why the second law applies.

 
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doc
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 15:14:36 (permalink)
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H0M3R_j4y
doc
 
I have an idea for an over unity device that would be worth trying but would need help/expertise from a few different fields , even if it worked I couldn't patent it , if I did I would probably end up dead , so its very hard to actually put this together in the most efficient way or to even get people involved . Even if it worked using permanent magnets , they get degaussed over time and I have no idea how much energy went into making them in the first place , so it's hard to calculate and could be an expensive project that would waste a lot of people's time .  




Thats the point of never being able to create something that will generate more energy than is put in. There will always be energy losses, even in the most efficient of machines, which is the second law of thermodynamics.
 
The law you stated earlier is the first law of thermodynamics, the conservation of energy. Which means that energy is neither created nor destroyed, but transferred from one form to another. This law does however only apply to a closed system. Most systems are open which is why the second law applies.


true , but the earth/universe is an open system so where did all the matter and energy come from to form the big bang/creation of the known universe , so whilst they hold true , it's only until we find out something different . If we started with nothing we now have a lot of energy, if we started with energy where did it come from , who created it ?
 
One of these machines could tap into some unknown form of energy I don't know. The laws probably hold true for conventional forms of energy but there's still a lot we don't understand. I don't believe in perpetual motion or over unity ( of a single form of energy) but believe in over unity where an energy rich substance can be created from natural sources ( like coal) cold fusion but these all ultimately come back to universe/solar powered. Magnetism is not fully understood and has natural attraction/repulsion so even if someone created a magnetic shield you would have free energy , gravity is not well understood either.
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H0M3R_j4y
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 16:45:59 (permalink)
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Thats the thing with the universe, it is all theory, none of it can be actually proven. I'm not saying the theories are wrong though, I do find it interesting and quite believable when I read about it. But we will never know, which is why I think its sometimes better to just care less about it and focus on improving life and technologies on our own planet.
 
It is highly possible that another species on another earth-like planet billions of lightyears away, is having exactly the same conversation right now. We will all be wiped out by an asteroid or extreme climate change eventually anyway so we will never know.

 
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 16:56:14 (permalink)
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H0M3R_j4y
Thats the thing with the universe, it is all theory, none of it can be actually proven. I'm not saying the theories are wrong though, I do find it interesting and quite believable when I read about it. But we will never know, which is why I think its sometimes better to just care less about it and focus on improving life and technologies on our own planet.
 
It is highly possible that another species on another earth-like planet billions of lightyears away, is having exactly the same conversation right now. We will all be wiped out by an asteroid or extreme climate change eventually anyway so we will never know.


more than likely very true !!
 
Can we ever get to the point where we can create clean energy without wiping out our existence by greed/power and stupidity ?? Given the size of the universe I would say its probable that this conversation is happening elsewhere. Maybe our brains need another 1000 years of deep thinking before we can even start to understand it but are we destined for self destruction before we get to that point ? Could any race get to that point where survival of the fittest seems to be the main rule that promotes positive evolution.
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cu3ed
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 16:58:44 (permalink)
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More than likely I think, though even if they where thousands of years more advanced the chances of them finding us or them tiny.
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BigWig
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 16:59:50 (permalink)
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Ive always thought our race would be long gone without scratching the surface of whats out there or what can be known.
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James
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 17:47:33 (permalink)
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There are two equally convincing arguments on this:
 
1) Space is huge. The chances of life on other planets are highly probable based on this observation.
 
2) The coming together of atoms to make the first cells was so massively random and improbable, that the chances of it happening again is so highly improbable, that statistics barely register the probability. Add to this the high improbability of the chances of a prokaryote cell forming a eukaryote cell (as per the mitochondrial theory). Then add the highly improbable chances of eukaryotes forming multi-cellular lifeforms. Then there's the fact that these organisms will have to develop intelligence as well as, possibly (but not essentially), consciousness.
 
Of course, in assumption two, we're considering intelligent (and possibly conscious) life. More likely would be something akin to plant life on other planets. Moreover, what's to say that the coming together of atoms to make the first prokaryotic cells happened on Earth? It's equally probable that this happened on another planet and came to Earth on a meteor and the subsequent stages of evolution took place here. There could be another web of evolution by natural selection that occurred from a related origin cell in another planet(s).
 
One thing's for sure, a being that has some sort of animal-like form with a head, eyes, limbs, is the most unlikely scenario.
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 17:53:06 (permalink)
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Also, there's loads to say on the energy debate as well as the AI debate (both raised above), which are more important, but that's off-topic. Topics that stick to one theme always have a better debate.
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SeanR
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/07 18:08:14 (permalink)
+1 (1)
James
 
 
One thing's for sure, a being that has some sort of animal-like form with a head, eyes, limbs, is the most unlikely scenario.




That's not what Kirk had us believing lol
 
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iaink
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/08 17:35:02 (permalink)
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James
 
The coming together of atoms to make the first cells was so massively random and improbable, that the chances of it happening again is so highly improbable, that statistics barely register the probability. Add to this the high improbability of the chances of a prokaryote cell forming a eukaryote cell (as per the mitochondrial theory). Then add the highly improbable chances of eukaryotes forming multi-cellular lifeforms. Then there's the fact that these organisms will have to develop intelligence as well as, possibly (but not essentially), consciousness.


This is a decent argument to suggest that highly intelligent life forns are rare. For a start the vast majority of the known universe is inhospitable to life based on biology as we assume it.

However I'd suggest that saying atoms come together to make cells whilst being vaguely correct in some sense is mis leading and dony correctly demonstrate that these processes are not random. Biogeniss occurred via biological molecules replicating. This is not a random process. Chemistry is not random. Neither can probability of life occurring etc be calculated based on a 'dice roll' model, where the people event does not effect the next event.

On our planet life appeared pretty soon after the planet could support life forns. Its quite likely that life is common in environments that can support biological processes and its simply the lack of environments that's the issue. The key is time and number of events.

I think life may be commen were the environment can support life but 'higher forms' much less so given the longer time frames involved. I mean prokaryotes are still the dominant life forns on this plant by most objective measures!

Obviously who knows how life can survive? Maybe there are non biological life forms or forms that are able to use vastly different chemistry?
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/08 18:44:27 (permalink)
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Estimated 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars.
 
If we here, then defo
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/08 23:03:00 (permalink)
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If there is I’ll bet they lock their doors as they fly by the earth.

Alt er mulig
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/08 23:31:41 (permalink)
+2 (2)
You also have to consider the time it takes to go from single cell, to where we are now, it's not a quick process, it requires time and significant mutation. It has been suggested that we may be doing quite well time wise in that regard. Why does everyone assume that life on other planets is more advanced than us?
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/09 08:17:04 (permalink)
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teapot
 Why does everyone assume that life on other planets is more advanced than us?



 
Stuff like H G Wells, flying saucer/Alien movies with advanced beings, and all the "sighting" since the 50,s. If they can get here, then more advanced.
 
You get folk like SETI listening in, but I wonder if we will ever hear anything, or be around long enough to hear something.
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Re: Extraterrestrial Life. Is it out there? 2019/01/09 09:57:24 (permalink)
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teapot
You also have to consider the time it takes to go from single cell, to where we are now, it's not a quick process, it requires time and significant mutation. It has been suggested that we may be doing quite well time wise in that regard. Why does everyone assume that life on other planets is more advanced than us?

i think its because visiting life would have to be smarter than us/ more advanced , no doubt there is dumb life out there as well .
 
Also with the chances of formation if life ( if we use the RNA hypothesis) the chances of you winning the lottery are 1 in 45 million , the chances of someone winning the lotto are about 1/1. So highly probable.
 
The bit I find hard to get my head around is that even if there is a more advanced society capable of interstellar travel what are the chances of them being around now , in this tiny time frame along with time dilation , in universal terms we have really only been in existence for a blink of an eye ( even less) .
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