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Fiberous vs Starchy carbs

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Rhez
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2007/06/11 19:28:57 (permalink)

Fiberous vs Starchy carbs

Hope this is not one of those dumb questions. BUT

I am currently on a cut, have been for quite a while.

Stats 159lb, 5'11"

One thing i have always wondered about is, lets say i want to use 1g of carbs per lb of body weight, out of these carbs how many would ideally come from Starchy carbs?

One of the reason for wanting to know is, I count every carb and calorie that goes into my mouth.


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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/11 19:32:04 (permalink)
    you will find it hard to get 159g of fibrous carbs without it getting annoying

    BUT

    TBH who wants to cut at 11 and a half stone?
    #2
    Rhez
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/11 19:58:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    you will find it hard to get 159g of fibrous carbs without it getting annoying

    BUT

    TBH who wants to cut at 11 and a half stone?


    Sorry TT but i think you misunderstood, i do not want 159 of fiberous carbs,lol i doubt i could eat that much veg, well yeh i probably could, but do not want to. i wanted to know out of 159 carbs how many would say be Starchy, ie: 50% -60%.

    TBH some one who still has a lot of bell fat, ME. ;)

    post edited by Rhez - 2007/06/11 20:01:57
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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/11 20:03:23 (permalink)
    ok

    there is no ratio

    if you are fat at 159lb you have minimal muscle mass and IMO should not be dieting like a bodybuilder

    if you need to lose weight, up your output and up carbs

    starcy carbs mean little too

    maltodextrin is a starch = not ideal for everyday meal carb choice
    fruit = simple sugars but can be good
    #4
    Rhez
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/11 20:09:49 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    ok

    there is no ratio

    if you are fat at 159lb you have minimal muscle mass and IMO should not be dieting like a bodybuilder

    if you need to lose weight, up your output and up carbs

    starcy carbs mean little too

    maltodextrin is a starch = not ideal for everyday meal carb choice
    fruit = simple sugars but can be good


    Thanks TT.

    Would you recommend carbs somewhere around the 1.5g per lb(238g) and protien at about the same?

    The whole reason i have little LBM is through bad decisions and trying to rush. Something i need to rectify.
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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/11 20:13:14 (permalink)
    no

    i never suggest a figure for carbs

    150g may add weight to someone yet the next man may lose weight on 500g a day

    draw a realistic diet up in relation to YOUR daily requirements and go from there

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    Rhez
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/11 20:48:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    no

    i never suggest a figure for carbs

    150g may add weight to someone yet the next man may lose weight on 500g a day

    draw a realistic diet up in relation to YOUR daily requirements and go from there




    Cool, fair enough, thanks for the guidance.
    #7
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/11 21:16:54 (permalink)
    Fibrous carbs can often be classed as -

    Asparagus
    Green beans
    Broccoli
    Brussels sprouts
    Cabbage
    Carrots
    Cauliflower
    Celery
    Cucumbers
    Eggplants
    Lettuce
    Mushrooms
    Green peppers
    Red peppers
    Spinach
    Squash
    Zucchini

    But then, foods like oats, weetabix, beans, etc... all contain moderate levels of fibre, so this could and has to be taken into consideration.

    Where as starchy carbs are more likely to be -

    Corn
    Whole-meal flour
    Lentils
    Oatmeal
    Pasta
    Peas
    Potatoes
    Rice
    Sweet potatoes
    Tomatoes
    Shredded Wheat.
    #8
    Rhez
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 07:31:55 (permalink)
    Cheers for that Gaz, something I already knew, but no doubt usefull to others.

    Thanks.
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    Rhez
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 07:32:58 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee



    if you are fat at 159lb you have minimal muscle mass and IMO should not be dieting like a bodybuilder




    TT care to explain please.
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    AdamSimpson
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 08:23:54 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Rhez

    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee



    if you are fat at 159lb you have minimal muscle mass and IMO should not be dieting like a bodybuilder




    TT care to explain please.


    ill pop in until TT answers,
    A cutting diet for a bodybuilder will consist of plenty of protein and usually ro cho or low cho depending on the competition timing. for someone such as yourself with little real muscle mass and some fat, eating heaps of protein will simply add to your belly fat, focus on exercising and eating plenty of smaller portion meals with fruits veges and EFA's dont concern yourself with exact p[rotein and carb needs until you get a good base to build from, if your simply interested in losing the gut then just eat healthy things in small portions and exercise as regularely as possible

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    #11
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 08:37:14 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Rhez

    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee



    if you are fat at 159lb you have minimal muscle mass and IMO should not be dieting like a bodybuilder




    TT care to explain please.


    care to explain?

    not really easy with your terminology but here goes

    Losing weight Vs Cutting


    I’m just going to jot a few random thoughts below on this topic which is cropping up time and time again in both the recreational gym trainer and online forum members

    Are you being honest with your nutrition requirements for your body type? Or have you been misguided?

    “I am cutting”

    “What are your stats?”

    “5 11 and 160lb, 20% body fat”


    This is not cutting, this is losing weight.

    Let’s get a couple of things laid down before I crack on. Cutting and losing weight differ significantly and their dietary protocol, training and approach will be designed in relation to this

    Reducing body mass is about an energy deficit regardless of whether you are losing weight or cutting. You must be burning more calories than you are consuming. This runs true for losing weight and cutting period.
    Those who are heavily muscled will cut. Cutting is retaining substantial LBM (lean body mass) whilst stripping the body fat which hides the cuts of these muscles.

    Examples of this will be the gent who is 5 11” 240lb and 16% body fat. When he cuts he will be heavily muscled with a low body fat. This dietary approach to focus primarily on a high intake of protein and the manipulation of carbohydrates (CHO) and fat in the diet. The manipulation maybe low carbs, high fat. It may be static fat and cycled carbs or even a ketogenic diet. Protein is required to save lean body mass with the other macronutrients being lowered to create the energy deficit. Combined with cardiovascular work, weight training and the possible use of AAS or supplementation the heavily muscled trainer will be cutting.

    So that is cutting.

    Let’s go back to our 5 foot 11 160lb guy who is skinny fat. This person is holding minimal muscle tissue and does not require the protein intake of the heavily muscled guys either as a result of not having trained for long or simply being clueless in their approach to training and nutrition. The notion of requiring up to 2g of protein per lb of body weight is simply ludicrous for these guys. This figure is often stated for cutting diets and holds merit for those who are 240lb and 16% body fat who are dropping CHO and fat to minimal levels in the diet

    I am not arguing protein requirements increase when someone embarks on resistance training but the protein required to save the lean tissue on the way down to the desired weight is nowhere near that of the seasoned, heavily muscled trainers or that documented on internet sites.

    The benefits of protein whilst dieting include satiety, the TEF (thermic effect of food) and the muscle sparing properties.

    BUT

    Excessive protein simply follows either the carbohydrate or fat pathway once the protein requirements of the person are met. If you need only 20g per serving and are smashing away 50g because “you want to be a bodybuilder following a cutting diet” the excess amino acids either get converted to glucose or fat. This hinders your energy deficit.

    What does this mean then? How much protein do you need?...it’s all explained below

    Are carbohydrates the enemy?
    Certainly not. They are protein sparing, they fuel work outs, they raise Leptin, increase thyroid activity, the foods they come from provide vital micronutrients, they fuel the brain, they offer a better quality of life for many. Do not drop them out
    The skinny fat man looking to lose weight and pull his abs out for a holiday IMO should not drop carbs too low just to get in an energy deficit because of too high a protein intake. They should opt for a medium carb, medium fat and medium protein diet. The energy deficit is to come from lowering calories, increasing cardio activity and continuing to weight train.

    Should I drop fat?
    To a certain extent if it is hindering your calorie balance, but the hormonal functions and immune system functions amongst other aspects mean you should not sacrifice this in the diet in favor of high protein if you are losing weight
    Essential fats are key.

    For the skinny fat man who needs to lose weight, you are not cutting. Do not embark on a bodybuilder’s diet

    What am I suggestion for losing weight?
    On a 2200 calorie ED diet

    150g protein = 600 calories
    250g of carbs = 1000 calories
    70g fat = 630 calories


    2230 calories = a very very rough breakdown and even then a little protein heavy. The fat and carb ratios can be played with in response to how you handle carbs and fat and your activity levels
    A simple cardio protocol along with 3-4 weight training sessions a week should suffice

    If you want to gain muscle with the stats outlined above then maybe a different protocol would suit, but for now remember the difference between cutting and losing weight

    Cutting diet in my articles below
    #12
    danchubbz
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 09:58:18 (permalink)
    where would u put someone who is 5.6" approx 162 lbs and with a BMI of about 24 and bf approx 13% with a decent muscular frame (IMO!)

    would he "qualify" for cutting?
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    Rhez
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 14:53:03 (permalink)
    Cheers for clearing that up TT, explained it perfectly thankyou.

    Not suprising i used the wrong Terminology though really, as it now seems to be the "IN" word on most forums, being used by most everyone, not just those with low BF%.

    That article almost looks like it was written for me, lol.

    Given me something to think on anyway, strange how i got lost on my journey from 217lbs that started last February.
    post edited by Rhez - 2007/06/12 15:21:07
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    Rhez
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 15:27:28 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: jabybebus





    ill pop in until TT answers,
    A cutting diet for a bodybuilder will consist of plenty of protein and usually ro cho or low cho depending on the competition timing. for someone such as yourself with little real muscle mass and some fat, eating heaps of protein will simply add to your belly fat, focus on exercising and eating plenty of smaller portion meals with fruits veges and EFA's dont concern yourself with exact p[rotein and carb needs until you get a good base to build from, if your simply interested in losing the gut then just eat healthy things in small portions and exercise as regularely as possible



    Ta very much, yes indeed the gut has to go, but i also need to get some muscle going at some time, LOl.
    #15
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Fiberous vs Starchy carbs 2007/06/12 19:22:56 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: danchubbz

    where would u put someone who is 5.6" approx 162 lbs and with a BMI of about 24 and bf approx 13% with a decent muscular frame (IMO!)

    would he "qualify" for cutting?


    decarte said "cogito ergo sun"

    if you believe you need something, use it

    reality comes in at some point whether it be for the good or the bad

    BMI means little to weight trainers

    nobody really knows their body fat until they cut IMO of have hydrostatic weighing
    #16
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