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Fighter Training

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S1M0N
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2003/10/23 12:10:32 (permalink)

Fighter Training

What would be a good fighter training split on a week? My idea would be a 2 day split, Day 1 use bodyweight exercises with added weight and day 2 use Squat and olympic lifts. I am not sure for the exercises selection and the reps/sets but something like that:

Day 1
Weighted Chins 3X5
Weighted Dips 3X5
Weighted Rows 2X10
Weighted Pushups 2X10
Weighted Sit-ups 2X10
Hand Stand pushups 1XMax

Day 2
Squat 1X20
Clean and Press 10X1
Snatch 10X1
Good Mornings 2X10

Grip work divided in 2 parts, first part at the end of the Day 1 and second part at the end of the Day 2. Day one only require a Chining and dipping station and a backpack, it could be performed at home. Day two require more equipement and need to be performed at gym. You would only need to go to gym once a week. The two days could be Saturday and Sunday, if it is work better for your lifestyle. During week, maybe some cardio days, punching bag work and of course the martial arts classes.

I think I could add more exercises on day 2, volume could be higher. Now if you want to share us your ideas for a fighter routine, or modifications for my routine, post !
#1

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    ozzy
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/23 16:21:24 (permalink)
    I think it looks fine as it is bro. The second day has some very taxing exercises and i think that if you do these with full commitment then you will not be able to do more than this.
    #2
    Voivod
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/23 17:07:15 (permalink)
    I think that looks like a fun routine mate. To be honest I feel that martial arts is about technique not strength though, but thats another thread!
    Cool routine.
    #3
    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/23 22:40:22 (permalink)
    quote:
    I think that looks like a fun routine mate. To be honest I feel that martial arts is about technique not strength though, but thats another thread!
    Cool routine


    I disagree. Martial arts is about both technique and strength. If you got technique but no strength to apply your technique with efficacity, then your technique is useless. If you got strength but no technique to apply it, then you have no control and your strength is useless. But if you got both technique and strength then your a god
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    Boxer
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/23 23:13:13 (permalink)
    quote:
    I disagree. Martial arts is about both technique and strength. If you got technique but no strength to apply your technique with efficacity, then your technique is useless. If you got strength but no technique to apply it, then you have no control and your strength is useless. But if you got both technique and strength then your a god

    I disagree. There has been many martial artist and boxing world champions who have never lifted a weight in their entire lives.
    Martial arts just like boxing are skill sports. If you're not skilled you'll get whooped in competition!
    #5
    Voivod
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/23 23:39:49 (permalink)
    quote:
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think that looks like a fun routine mate. To be honest I feel that martial arts is about technique not strength though, but thats another thread!
    Cool routine
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I disagree. Martial arts is about both technique and strength. If you got technique but no strength to apply your technique with efficacity, then your technique is useless. If you got strength but no technique to apply it, then you have no control and your strength is useless. But if you got both technique and strength then your a god

    The most powerful martial artist I have ever trained with was Sensei Asai 9th Dan. Now sensei was in his early 60's at the time, and weighed in at a mighty 119 Lbs! He has never been near any iron in his life, but has trained in Karate religiously since he was a boy. To be honest I doubt if he could bench 45Kg.
    That night he asked several of us senior grades out to the front of the class, so that he could demonstrate techniques. He invited me to attack him with gyaku zuki(reverse punch)as hard as I could. This I did, but each time I started to attack him he stopped me, shook his head and said in broken English " No no no. You attack me hard. Full power".
    After a while of this I was getting a little bit p*ssed off to say the least (he was making me look silly in front of the whole class), and I was trying my best to knock his head clean off! Every attack he blocked with ease, and at one point he blocked a head shot with the inside of his knee!! [:0]
    His counters were incredible. Every one was obviously controlled to perfection, but I could still feel the power. It was electrifying. I knew that if he had made contact then it would have been the end of me! [B)] [xx(]

    Bottom line is - if you have good technique, then strength is not neccessary.
    #6
    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/24 01:41:59 (permalink)
    Yes but if a guy skillful like that start doing weight training, he will become more powerful. The most important thing is to keep it functionnal, not starting a bodybuilder/powerlifter routine. For exemple, two guys with equal skills. One don't train anything else than technique. The second train technique but also lift weights. Wich one will be the most powerful?
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/24 16:26:10 (permalink)
    Possibly the first guy that you mention because he will have developed his power practicing the actual techniques.

    If weight training doesn't take any time away from skill and fitness practice then I tend to agree with you though.
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    Voivod
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/24 18:10:07 (permalink)
    quote:
    For exemple, two guys with equal skills. One don't train anything else than technique. The second train technique but also lift weights. Wich one will be the most powerful?

    The guy that practices nothing else but technique mate. Punching power does NOT come from strength. Sure, if you start hitting a punch bag a couple of times a week and start throwing some iron about then you are going to be hitting harder than you would have been previously. Thing is, you will very soon hit a plateau and not improve any further.
    If on the other hand you concentrate totally on technique, then its going to take a hell of a lot longer to get results, BUT, you will still be improving many many years down the line. I have been studying Shotokan Karate for almost 25 yrs and I feel I am only just scratching the surface.
    To be honest, I have been looking at this solely from the viewpoint of the striking arts, so it would be interesting to see what the grapplers on the board think? I have seen Simon Morrell (B.C.A) destroy a few guys of around 225Lbs (Simon is around 140 - 155 Lbs), but like I said, it would be good to know what more experienced guys in this field think.
    S1MON, if you believe that all of this revolves so much around strength, then what are your thoughts on self defence for women? Seeing as the average woman is not as strong as the average man, do you think they are wasting their time?
    Also, what about a feather weight boxer who weighs in at roughly 125 Lbs. If he was to get a clean shot at either you or I do you think we would still be standing? No chance! How much do you think a boxer who weighs a mere 125Lbs, and has never lifted a weight in his life could bench press? Not a lot, but he still has a punch like a sledgehammer on him. Why? Because of his technique.
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    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/25 00:59:28 (permalink)
    quote:
    The guy that practices nothing else but technique mate. Punching power does NOT come from strength. Sure, if you start hitting a punch bag a couple of times a week and start throwing some iron about then you are going to be hitting harder than you would have been previously. Thing is, you will very soon hit a plateau and not improve any further.


    lol, I don't understand your point. If you are on this board it is because you practice weight lifting. If you practice weight lifting and you are experienced, you know all the techniques you can use to break a plateau...

    quote:
    If on the other hand you concentrate totally on technique, then its going to take a hell of a lot longer to get results, BUT, you will still be improving many many years down the line. I have been studying Shotokan Karate for almost 25 yrs and I feel I am only just scratching the surface.

    The routine I posted take about 30 min per workout. Let's say you practice technique 2 hours a day, so 14 hours a week. Now you remove one hour of technique and you replace it by one hour of weight lifting. So you do 13 hours of technique and 1 hour of weight lifting per week. I don't think it would make any change for your technique, but for your strength...

    quote:
    S1MON, if you believe that all of this revolves so much around strength, then what are your thoughts on self defence for women? Seeing as the average woman is not as strong as the average man, do you think they are wasting their time?
    Also, what about a feather weight boxer who weighs in at roughly 125 Lbs. If he was to get a clean shot at either you or I do you think we would still be standing? No chance! How much do you think a boxer who weighs a mere 125Lbs, and has never lifted a weight in his life could bench press? Not a lot, but he still has a punch like a sledgehammer on him. Why? Because of his technique.


    Did I ever said training technique is useless? Never! Technique is really important, much more than strength. But training strength will give lots of benefits for a fighter. I know weight lifting is not absolutely necessary is you got a good technique, but it is very useful.

    But I didn't started this thread to ask if weight training was necessary to a fighter, I started it to read your ideas about a fighter routine. I know my routine is good but I also know it could be better. So if you share me your ideas about a fighter routine, I could compare it and improve it.
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    Voivod
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/25 01:15:07 (permalink)
    Maybe one day if you practice your martial arts really hard you will understand where I am coming from S1MON.
    Best of luck with the routine mate.
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    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/25 01:46:33 (permalink)
    quote:
    Maybe one day if you practice your martial arts really hard

    LOL, so your opinion is than I don't train hard? How can you say that as you know absolutely nothing about me. I got Kung Fu classes once a week and every other day I practice the techniques I learned.

    When I got a question about technique training I ask in a Martial Arts forum. When I got question about the weight training I do complementary to my technique training, I ask it here. Now this thread turned into a discussion about technique training while I was expecting constructive comments about fighter routines to improve my routine. I would like to see what look like others routine, to see good points from something totaly different and include it in my routine.

    Voivod and Boxer, you both seem to do martial arts/boxing. What your weight lifting routine look like?
    #12
    Boxer
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/25 01:51:54 (permalink)
    I'm doing a 5x5 routine mate but i'm not training for boxing at the moment...
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    Voivod
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/25 02:26:07 (permalink)
    quote:
    LOL, so your opinion is than I don't train hard? How can you say that as you know absolutely nothing about me. I got Kung Fu classes once a week and every other day I practice the techniques I learned.

    No dis-respect intended S1MON. I get the feeling that you haven't been training all that long (correct me if im wrong), and was trying to be constructive by offering some advice. Ive been studying Karate since the age of 7. I am now 32 and a 3rd Dan.
    quote:
    When I got a question about technique training I ask in a Martial Arts forum. When I got question about the weight training I do complementary to my technique training, I ask it here

    I did suggest in my first post (see below) that this was not the right place to discuss this.
    quote:
    I think that looks like a fun routine mate. To be honest I feel that martial arts is about technique not strength though, but thats another thread!


    quote:
    Voivod and Boxer, you both seem to do martial arts/boxing. What your weight lifting routine look like?

    5X5 here too.
    #14
    th2150
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/29 21:36:37 (permalink)
    I gotta go to work here, so ill keep this short. I practice MMA and I couldnt imagine fighting and NOT lifting, I think it is an essential aspect of at least that type of combat sport.
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    Voivod
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/29 22:23:24 (permalink)
    Thanks for the compliment Pusha but I am definately not an expert. This is simply the conclusion that I have come to after years of training.
    For a very long time I could not understand what my instructors meant when they said " Come on, strong now, be powerful".
    I would give it everything only for them to turn around and say " No no. Relax. Youre trying to use your muscles instead of proper technique. Relax and be powerful".
    100% see it now but it took a very long time.
    I also appreciate that everyone wont hold the same view point, especially the guys that do grappling.
    Whatever it is, thats my opinion agree with it or not.
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    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/30 23:09:49 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by pusha

    Simon is confusing power with strength, they are not the same thing. I guaratee that a decent boxer would have a much more power full punch than Ronny or Dorian even tho the later r far stronger. Vovoid sounds like an expert, I always like 2 learn from those who know far more than I do, rather than get all defensive and raise up ur ego meter.


    I raise up my ego meter? WTF? So you mean than because I am not as experienced as him I should just shut up and keep my opinions for myself?
    I know than what make the bigger difference in a fight is the technique, but I think than strength is really important to apply theses techniques with power. Power depends on strength and speed. You need to get theses both factor at a high level if you want to be powerful.
    Why do you think than almost all pro-boxers practice weight lifting? Certainly not just for fun.
    I totaly agree with you than you can be a really good fighter without weightlifting. But someone who is fast and have a good technique can be better if he increase his strength.
    #17
    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/30 23:59:44 (permalink)
    quote:
    What I'm said is that there really isn't a significant correlation. If you want power perform olympic lifts and plyometric type actions, not bench 130kg.

    Yeah of course, it is exactly what I do. If you look in the routine, there is no bench press but there is clean and press and snatch. And actually, I follow of jumping program based on plyometrics exercises. Sorry for the confusion, maybe I did not explain myself correctly, but when I talk about strength, it not necessary mean a big bench/squat/deadlift.
    #18
    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/31 00:33:23 (permalink)
    Yeah I play basketball. To be able to dunk is one of my dreams but I am so little (5'7) than I don't think it is possible. But anyway, I want to increase my vertical jump because it is fun and useful in lots of sports and of course, to impress girls

    It is the same thing for walkings on the hands, or doing a backflip etc. I like to be able to do this kind of stuff.
    #19
    S1M0N
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    RE: Fighter Training 2003/10/31 22:53:13 (permalink)
    My problem is not technique or style, it's my leg power [V] My vertical jump is 20 inches. To be able to dunk I would need a vertical over 40 inches.
    #20
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