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First course Epi - timing help and check over please?

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loathsome
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2011/03/12 13:37:04 (permalink)
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First course Epi - timing help and check over please?

Hi guys, I'm looking to run my first PH course and just wanted a check over from experienced users and to ask about the optimum timings to take everything. I have everything that I believe I'll need ready to go with my planned doses as follows-

1x Chaparral labs epi 120 x 10mg (I plan on dosing 30mgs a day untill the bottle empties - ie. 2 days short of 6 weeks.)
200g NAC                                       (1g per day - preloading for a week before starting epi)
100g Milk thistle extract 80%         (500mgs per day - again with a weeks preload)
250g Taurine                                  (3-5g per day)
Saw Palmetto ext 25%                   (200mgs per day - preload?)
Lots of Fish Oil                                (minimum of 6g per day)

100 x 10mg Tamoxifen                    (running 21 day PCT as suggested in OTC steroid article by Celt)
250g DAA                                        (3g per day alongside SERM?)

I'm 35yo and have a number of years natural training under my belt with a decent diet (albeit a little calorie heavy!) Currently doing a push/pull/legs split which has seen some decent gains in strength/size and plan on keeping this routine on cycle and possibly switching to a full body routine maybe after PCT?

After a bit of reading about I'm a little unsure of timing to take everything as opinions seem to vary although I'm leaning towards spreading the Epi doses over the day tending towards the morning (which is when I generally train anyway) and dosing the support supplements at a different time as far as possible from the PH - but I'd welcome any opinions on this?

Any suggestions on anything listed that you would change would be gratefully received - thanks Chris.
#1

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    Firetrap
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/03/12 16:33:06 (permalink)
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    I take 40mg epi per day, I take 1 capsule every 5 hours with a milk thistle quick release capsule.

    6g fish oil seems a little excessive IMO - Try glucosamine 1000mg p/day and 2 capsules of complete omega 3/6/9 oils, that should be ample.

    Epi is quite mild to be honest, I have done it before and did 30mg p/day and I had OK gains but nothing special, Once upped to 40mg p/day the gains were very nice, minimum sides too. 

    40mg p/day is the sweet spot IMO, you may get a few back pumps in the second week but a bit of taurine will solve that.

    Also with the PCT, one good Anti-estrogen supp (ATD is very good) and a test booster should suffice. Keep taking milk thistle through out PCT too and remember to taper the ATD or whatever you choose.

    I only take Taurine when absolutely necessary, I find back pumps minimal on epi, nowhere near as bad as H-drol in my experience.

    Good luck with the cycle.

    Epi 40/40/40/40
    350g Protein per day
    Liver supps, vits and fish oils
    5-HTP
    Creatine Ethyl Ester

    #2
    Vibora
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/03/12 21:11:45 (permalink)
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    Looks good to go.

    Epi half life is 6-8 hours, so spread them apart in this manner. Cycle supports dosed separately from Epi.

    I have 6g fish oil per day when not on cycle, and bump them up to 10 a day during cycle, not excessive by any means.


    #3
    loathsome
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/03/13 21:24:04 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the replies, I do have a load of special offer bottles of maximuscle ache-away lying around that contain glucosamine which I can add in with the support supps. I also take ~6g of fish oil on a normal day if I remember, I'm just going to try and be a bit more consistent and have a couple with each epi tablet (with food.)

    I'll consider getting another bottle and upping the dose to 40 after a few weeks depending on the results although I am only a short ar$e so 30 might be enough for me.
    #4
    jw390898
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/03/13 21:41:45 (permalink)
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    Pretty well planned.

    Not entirely convinced first cycle you will require 40mg - I agree with Firetrap that on a second or so on cycle that 30mg may not quite cut it or for bigger guys but imo 30mg seems to still be the most popular dose.

    Epi is known for kicking in around the third week, maybe you could run a fortnight at 30mg and assuming you are not suffering up it to 40mg and buy the second pot if after another 10 days or so if all is good and the cycle is treating you well to finish 6 weeks.

    How big are you?
    #5
    loathsome
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/03/13 21:58:20 (permalink)
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    I'm only 5'7" at about 85 kilos, not really fat but you can only see abs when I draw them on with a felt tip ;)

    Really liked the look of N2BM's N2Guard but a couple of bottles would have been way out of my budget so went with the bulk options.

    I have been reading up for a while on the subject and thought the 120 cap bottle will give me a good idea how I react, If it goes well then I'd be happy to get more for a future course/possibly up the dose. Although I see quite a few people not getting much from Epi - if that's the cae for me then I'll finish the course and try another compound for my next cycle.
    #6
    fah_gedda_boudit
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/03/20 02:41:45 (permalink)
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    loathsome
    I have everything that I believe I'll need
    Actually you have more than you need mate.
     
    You need the Nolva, taurine & fish oils are optional extras, the rest is dare i say what you've been convinced you need by reps.
     
    As you've already bought it I wouldn't worry about it but for future reference, you can probably save quite a few quid by ditching the other stuff on future cycles.  If anything, I'd spend the money saved on extra Nolva in case you get gyno symptoms....& yeah, guys do get gyno symptoms of Epi products, not matter what the marketing blurb tells you.
     
     
    #7
    Daari
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/03/21 21:59:38 (permalink)
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    you would have been fine with either milk thistle OR NAC
     
    I'd use the DAA after PCT personally
     
    Agree with "fah_gedda_boudit" - gyno is still a possibility with epi/clones
    #8
    bigsteve404
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/05 21:32:46 (permalink)
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    Hey
     
    Am just starting an epi cycle and am wondering what test booster to use alongside nolva/ pct or after. DAA seems to be recommended alot but are there any better/ alternatives any1s used?
     
    Cheers
    #9
    m118
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/05 21:42:50 (permalink)
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    bigsteve404

    Hey

    Am just starting an epi cycle and am wondering what test booster to use alongside nolva/ pct or after. DAA seems to be recommended alot but are there any better/ alternatives any1s used?

    Cheers

    the problem with testboosters, and pretty much any supplement is that what works better for me, may not work better for you... so, my top 3 pct test boosters i always recommend:
     
    HCGenereate
    Testforce2
    Bioforge
     
    they all work in different ways, and all have very good feedback.
    #10
    Vibora
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/05 22:10:02 (permalink)
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    Good suggestions above.
     
    If budget permits, I always like to add a natty test booster alongside Nolva/Clomid for PCT.
    #11
    jw390898
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 09:17:09 (permalink)
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    Vibora

    Good suggestions above.

    If budget permits, I always like to add a natty test booster alongside Nolva/Clomid for PCT.

    Also agree, I like to run a t-booster in addition to SERM - the quicker we recover the more gains we keep so for me it is a necessary consideration when planning a cycle and has to befactored in cost wise as much as the SERM of PH in the first place.
    Many people run without a t-booster and do fine though so it is a choce thing and without running identical cycles and PCT with and without a booster then having before and after bloodwork nobody can declare one way better then the other, but I believe I feel better sooner with the addition of a proven booster. I believe my libido bounces back, my mood and general well being returns faster and this means a lot to me.
    #12
    j55ttc
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 11:21:26 (permalink)
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    With the nolva do you spread them out over the course of the day?
    Im sure I read somewhere to just have them all be fore bed?
    #13
    m118
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 11:52:22 (permalink)
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    j55ttc

    With the nolva do you spread them out over the course of the day?
    Im sure I read somewhere to just have them all be fore bed?

    it has such a long half life, and for convenience, i dose them all before bed.
    #14
    j55ttc
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 12:07:28 (permalink)
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    m118

    j55ttc

    With the nolva do you spread them out over the course of the day?
    Im sure I read somewhere to just have them all be fore bed?

    it has such a long half life, and for convenience, i dose them all before bed.

    Great thanks!
    #15
    jw390898
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 12:11:50 (permalink)
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    Before bed is not so important - it can be anytime of day but best to be consistent each day, for most people breakfast or bed is best for remembering - but yes take the whole dose in one hit.
    #16
    bigsteve404
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 14:54:48 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the advice...
     
    I was leaning towards testforce2 DAA as it seems to get good reviews... have tried MP DAA previously on its own with little benifit but apparently the testforce is better.
     
    I was also condisidering the HCGenerate aswell for its good reviews/ wide ingredient list but it seems like gold dust atm... have tried nolvadex xt by gaspari previously and was impressed... however i am consious of running another eostrogen suppressant alsongside serm as PCT... the bioforge seems pretty interesting... have you tried the bioforge max?
     
    Also i dont want to start another debate about the usefulness of cortisol blockers but has any1 tried a pct with and without one and noticed a difference? i guess its just another one of those things if budget allows..
     
     
    #17
    jw390898
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 15:20:01 (permalink)
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    Depending on how big a rush you are in HCGenerate will be on its way again - and bias as I am would be my ideal choice.
     
    I have run PCT with and without cortisol blockers and can only speculate as to whether they are of benefit or not, personally I would rather spend the £ and use HCGenerate and Testforce instead :-)
    #18
    Vibora
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 16:42:05 (permalink)
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    I would rather spend money on Test boosters as an addition to PCT as oppose to Cortisol blockers. For the latter a couple of grams of Vit C and maybe some DHEA is good for cortisol management.
    #19
    JayJo
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    Re:First course Epi - timing help and check over please? 2011/04/06 20:08:04 (permalink)
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    Vibora

    I would rather spend money on Test boosters as an addition to PCT as oppose to Cortisol blockers. For the latter a couple of grams of Vit C and maybe some DHEA is good for cortisol management.


    Very smart mate.

    It's easier to manage cortisol than testosterone levels.

    "No pain, no gain!"
    #20
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