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Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease?

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el_Supremo
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2007/06/18 22:44:37 (permalink)
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Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease?

I hear folk all the time say that Alcoholism is a disease.
Do you agree?

I have sympathy for alcoholics, it cant be easy, but at the end of the day its self inflicted.

I think calling it "an illnesss" is an insult to people who have diseases.

You cant wake up one day and say, "I think I will stop having cancer today, I am sick of it" You can with alcoholism, so it aint a disease in my opinion.
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    knoxville
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/18 22:47:27 (permalink)
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    As with the fat Imho,it starts out as an easy option,or fun or insecurity which forms a little habit then grows and grows until you are that habit and thats your life
    Addiction is a very sad thing
    #2
    ginasmg
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/18 22:48:48 (permalink)
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    no its not a disease but it can be an addiction and unfortunatly creeps up on you as any other addiction,so i wouldnt say its always self inflicted either tbh as nobody sets out to get addicted,i suppose its just a set of circumstances that can get out of controll before you know whats happening.
    #3
    TRAMP
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/18 22:51:52 (permalink)
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    I believe Doctors class chronic alcoholism as an illness.

    It's finally arrived....PM Neb for swaps!


    #4
    Willie
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/18 22:59:51 (permalink)
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    I think some people say too readily that they're alcoholics as it provides them with an excuse to hurt other people. I'm not sure if i'd classify proper alcoholism (not being able to get out of bed without having a drink first) as an disease but it's certainly a terrible addiction. Although due to personal reasons i'm finding it increasingly hard to have sympathy for them.

    All I need is a big gun and a coupe that's crazy quick...
    #5
    plotter
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 00:03:53 (permalink)
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    alcoholism is a psychological dependecy the isn't it and if thats classed as an illness
    then is sex addiction an illness one to then?, thats an illness i'd like to have compared to all the others lol
    #6
    TheDoctor
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 00:25:42 (permalink)
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    Ok, its self induced and if you are skeptical about the addiction/psychological part as being an illness, as some members above are, you can also look at it as alcoholism causes illness. Google term such as Wernicke's encephalopathy as well as the usual liver and associated mental health problems
    #7
    drab4
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 01:46:27 (permalink)
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    I don't know whether or not drug addiction is a disease

    Personally, I just tend to call it what it is. Addiction

    It may also be a disease, I'm really not sure either way on that


    ORIGINAL: el_Supremo

    You cant wake up one day and say, "I think I will stop having cancer today, I am sick of it" You can with alcoholism, so it aint a disease in my opinion.

    Another way to look at it is that many cancers are curable. Simply take the right medicines and you are cured

    Many addictions are not curable, and no amount of medicines can save the lives of those addicts

    TBH, I don't think there's much point comparing any of these things. They're just different. Might as well compare an apple with a dog really

    #8
    thesundancekid
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 02:09:57 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: el_Supremo

    I hear folk all the time say that Alcoholism is a disease.
    Do you agree?

    I have sympathy for alcoholics, it cant be easy, but at the end of the day its self inflicted.

    I think calling it "an illnesss" is an insult to people who have diseases.

    You cant wake up one day and say, "I think I will stop having cancer today, I am sick of it" You can with alcoholism, so it aint a disease in my opinion.


    I have had a major gambling addiction and I would never dare call it a disease. I chose to make massive bets, I was young with too much money and too much time on my hands. In the end, I gave up chasing my money back! I still gamble but only a certain amount and only some weekends! I was aware I was letting people down and after one day putting £800 in a roulette machine I decided to get my act together. With addiction there is always a choice!
    post edited by thesundancekid - 2007/06/19 02:10:48
    #9
    knoxville
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 08:54:20 (permalink)
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    The thing with rink is to an extent it can be hidden,which compounds the problem
    #10
    Titch
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 09:50:09 (permalink)
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    Alcoholism may do the body a huge amount of damage, but the decision to reach that stage was entirely the drinker's.
    #11
    James
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 10:22:26 (permalink)
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    It's not a 'disease' per se, but for sure certain individuals are pre-disposed to having more of an addictive personality - whether this is genetic, foetal or shaped during our infancy/youth I do not know. However these people really struggle when they have an addiction, though the addiction type may vary
    #12
    colin.d
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 11:13:21 (permalink)
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    Im a recovering alchoholic, coming up on 6 years sober and its been proven that some people have a predisposition to a addiction to alcholol. Some people seem to think that the term " Alcoholic " is used as an excuse but think of it in these terms. It involves every aspect of your life, your work, social life, your children and wife, all your close family and your friends or the ones you find out who really are , there is also the social stigma as you are seen as a weakling who cant even take a drink sensibly. So the next time you see someone with an alcohol problem and they are in recovery remember this .. this is with us till the day we die, it cant be cured with a course of meds or a surgical procedure, we will never walk away from this and i can only stay sober for today as i dont know what tomorrow has in store.

    "A man can be anything he wants as long as he,s willing to pay the price"
    #13
    Titch
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 11:18:46 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: colin.d

    Im a recovering alchoholic, coming up on 6 years sober and its been proven that some people have a predisposition to a addiction to alcholol. Some people seem to think that the term " Alcoholic " is used as an excuse but think of it in these terms. It involves every aspect of your life, your work, social life, your children and wife, all your close family and your friends or the ones you find out who really are , there is also the social stigma as you are seen as a weakling who cant even take a drink sensibly. So the next time you see someone with an alcohol problem and they are in recovery remember this .. this is with us till the day we die, it cant be cured with a course of meds or a surgical procedure, we will never walk away from this and i can only stay sober for today as i dont know what tomorrow has in store.

    I've no doubt being an alcoholic takes a huge toll on you and those around you. Would you not agree that to reach the stage of being an alcoholic was your own choice though? I probably drink too much myself, there's a history of alcoholism on one side of my family & many say I have an addictive personality; I know if I became a full-blown alcoholic I'd only have myself to blame though.
    #14
    colin.d
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 11:36:43 (permalink)
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    Think of it in this respect, Would you drink yourself into a catatonic state day in, day out and build your tolerance to alcohol to such a level that what would get you drunk, would send most people to the hospital ?. This isnt a conscious decision its built into you as a person after all the research they still cant tell whether its genetic, chemical or there is another factor in the predisposition towards this type of addiction.

    "A man can be anything he wants as long as he,s willing to pay the price"
    #15
    MonkFinger
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 11:43:25 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Titch
    I've no doubt being an alcoholic takes a huge toll on you and those around you. Would you not agree that to reach the stage of being an alcoholic was your own choice though? I probably drink too much myself, there's a history of alcoholism on one side of my family & many say I have an addictive personality; I know if I became a full-blown alcoholic I'd only have myself to blame though.


    Which is odd, really, here you are admitting that you drink too much and a family history of alcoholism and you have an addictive personality, and yet there you are saying it's all your own choice and it's your fault if you become an alcoholic you'll only have yourself to blame...


    So in a manner of speaking it's true. And in a manner of speaking it's not. I think it's more that you're (I say "you're", I mean any alcoholic not you personally) an unwilling participant in your own destruction.


    I don't think the word disease is correct.

    I think the word addiction is correct.

    There are many things you can get addicted to, some are more damaging than others... Getting addicted to weightlifting is not particularly damaging, but alcohol is simply very damaging, mentally and physically, for you and others near you.
    #16
    Medusa
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 11:57:10 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: el_Supremo
    Is Alcoholism a disease
    the answer will depend very much upon how you are defining disease
    ORIGINAL: el_Supremo
    You cant wake up one day and say, "I think I will stop having cancer today, I am sick of it" You can with alcoholism, so it aint a disease in my opinion.
    but does an alcoholic really have it in his/her power to just stop like that, I think it's true that if physicaly addicted to acholol it can be dangerous to just stop dead?

    ORIGINAL: ginasmg
    so i wouldnt say its always self inflicted either tbh as nobody sets out to get addicted
    10 people like a drink & one ends up an alcoholic, 10 people sunbath & one gets skin cancer ..who's to blame?
    #17
    Titch
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 12:06:04 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: MonkFinger

    ORIGINAL: Titch
    I've no doubt being an alcoholic takes a huge toll on you and those around you. Would you not agree that to reach the stage of being an alcoholic was your own choice though? I probably drink too much myself, there's a history of alcoholism on one side of my family & many say I have an addictive personality; I know if I became a full-blown alcoholic I'd only have myself to blame though.


    Which is odd, really, here you are admitting that you drink too much and a family history of alcoholism and you have an addictive personality, and yet there you are saying it's all your own choice and it's your fault if you become an alcoholic you'll only have yourself to blame...


    So in a manner of speaking it's true. And in a manner of speaking it's not. I think it's more that you're (I say "you're", I mean any alcoholic not you personally) an unwilling participant in your own destruction.


    I don't think the word disease is correct.

    I think the word addiction is correct.

    There are many things you can get addicted to, some are more damaging than others... Getting addicted to weightlifting is not particularly damaging, but alcohol is simply very damaging, mentally and physically, for you and others near you.


    Nothing odd about it. None of the above factors I mentioned mean that I have no control in how much I drink or indeed in how much I use/abuse anything. I simply don't buy into using "addictive personality" as an excuse for anything.

    I lift 5 days a week and limit my drinking to weekends. I've drunk more in the past and I've drunk less in the past. Assigning pseudo medical/psychological terms to some personality traits is a poor excuse for not controlling your own behaviour IMO.
    #18
    Nigeepoo
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 12:10:21 (permalink)
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    I read somewhere that when Eskimos started trading with Americans and gave up their traditional fishy diet (high in long-chain omega-3 fats) for a Standard American Diet (SAD), a lot of them became alcoholic. Apparently, they had lost the ability to synthesise long-chain omega-3s from short-chain omega-3 (and the SAD was/is low in short-chain omega-3 fat anyway).

    Similarly, some Australian Aborigines who abandoned their traditional diet (high in omega-3s) started sniffing glue/petrol. This suggests that a deficiency in long-chain omega-3s may tend people towards addictive behaviour by causing depression or some other mental problems. See http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=533861

    Interestingly, the vast majority of white English people born in 1958 are Vit D3-deficient in Winter & Spring and the majority are still deficient in Summer and Autumn (see http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/3/860 ). Note that the criterion used was "serum 25(OH)D <75nmol/L". My serum 25(OH)D was 78nmol/L but my brain was like mush for years. Now it's 115nmol/L and my brain is working fine. I wonder what percentage of people in the above study had serum 25(OH)D <115nmol/L?

    Low serum 25(OH)D levels are strongly associated with depressive-like conditions (low mood) and feelings of non-wellbeing. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10888476&dopt=Abstract , http://ajgponline.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/12/1032 and http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=506781

    We need to get out more!
    #19
    JK2
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    RE: Following on from the "fat" thread- Is Alcoholism a disease? 2007/06/19 12:11:03 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: James

    It's not a 'disease' per se, but for sure certain individuals are pre-disposed to having more of an addictive personality - whether this is genetic, foetal or shaped during our infancy/youth I do not know. However these people really struggle when they have an addiction, though the addiction type may vary


    The term 'addictive personality' is contentious. Personality is not the same thing as predisposition, although 'addictive personality' is a term readily used by addicts to allude to a predisposition towards addiction (and deflect criticism of lack of self-control).

    #20
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