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Hamstrings

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mark
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2011/03/28 12:33:39 (permalink)
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Hamstrings

I'm pleased with my current quad development, but hamstrings are lagging. I train them weekly using good morning exercise. Should I give them some time to evolve, or change tack. Ps I use squats, incline leg press and dead lift for quads.
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    TheThumper
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/28 13:13:38 (permalink)
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    Whats the goal, mass?
    #2
    EnfantTerrible
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/28 13:31:46 (permalink)
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    Romanian deadlifts and deep back squats are good for hammies... you could use hamstring curl too.
    #3
    mark
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/28 13:51:12 (permalink)
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    Yes,mass is the goal....I want nice balance from side....like Paco Batusta! is that a bit ambitious? What the hell !
    #4
    TheThumper
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/28 20:21:54 (permalink)
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    One of the bodybuilding guys will help you on some of their exercises, but the back squat is probably the best for all round posterior chain strength. Low-bar being probably the best style.
    #5
    naththebeast
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/28 21:57:48 (permalink)
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    maybe add in some SLDL, great hammy exercise if done correctly.



    #6
    mark
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 13:39:23 (permalink)
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    SLDL?......whaasat?
    #7
    Ox
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 13:58:45 (permalink)
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    mark

    SLDL?......whaasat?


    stiff legged deadlift

     
     
    SQUAT 242.5KG-BENCH 192.5KG-DEADLIFT 330KG
     
     
    #8
    EnfantTerrible
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 14:09:27 (permalink)
    +2 (1)
    SLDL puts a lot more stress on the lower back, spinal ligaments and disks so I would do Romanian Deadlifts over these where the legs are kept slightly bent so you don't have to round your back to get the bar to the bottom position.
    #9
    pickingthingsupandputtingthemdown
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 15:27:31 (permalink)
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    spot on
    #10
    dazc
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 17:15:51 (permalink)
    +2 (1)
    EnfantTerrible

    SLDL puts a lot more stress on the lower back, spinal ligaments and disks so I would do Romanian Deadlifts over these where the legs are kept slightly bent so you don't have to round your back to get the bar to the bottom position.

     
    sorry mate, but i dont agree at all. you talk about rounding the back like its part of the exercise, its not.  you dont have to round your back 'to get to the bottom' and shouldnt be doing so.  If your doing that, its not the exercise thats at fault, but technique and understanding of whats being worked!  
     
    people should work within their range of movement available, so that would be only going as low as you can before spinal flexion is required.  you would train up to that break point, and not beyond it.
     
    this thing that form is right to the bottom/touching the floor, is utter rubbish, and not only that puts people at risk of injury! form is whatever you are capable of.  the exercise isnt compromised by limiting the ROM, because once it involves spinal flexion then its no longer putting any additional load on the hamstrings anyway!
     
    if ROM is very limited, then that can be worked on alongside working the hamstrings.
    #11
    EnfantTerrible
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 19:22:11 (permalink)
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    Appreciate your opinion, I don't claim to be an expert. I've always been under the impression that if you're not lifting the weight from still (i.e. dead weight) then it's not a dead lift.
     
    I remember reading a Lyle McDonald article about it, I'll try and find it.
    post edited by EnfantTerrible - 2011/03/29 19:30:29
    #12
    EnfantTerrible
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 19:30:08 (permalink)
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    http://www.bodyrecomposit...ining/rdl-vs-sldl.html
     
    Here's the article. Just reread it a bit more closely and it does talk about only using the ROM that your flexibility will allow. I've got pretty long arms so with the large 20kg plates I can go to the floor with my back fairly straight (I think!!) when my legs are slightly bent (i.e. RDL). I only really feel the stretch in my hammies when I go right to the floor and feel it so much more pulling from the floor. Never really felt the need to do SLDL. Thanks for the education
    post edited by EnfantTerrible - 2011/03/29 19:35:36
    #13
    dazc
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 20:06:07 (permalink)
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    i would agree with the fact that the term deadlift refers to one done from the floor, however SLDL is just a term used to describe the move as far as i know, and isnt actually a 'dead' lift.
     
    i would normally deadlift conventionally the weight from the floor (to avoid rounding of the back for the reasons you stated) and then adjust my foot position and do working SLDL sets, when finished i would then do a deadlift negative to return the bar to the floor.
     
    i wouldnt worry too much about feeling a stretch in the hammies when doing them, more important is just keeping form good for yourself.  if thats right, then it has to be working the hamstrings!  it may be that you dont need to do any extra hamstring work with your deadlifting and RDL, and as long as you have good quad/ham balance then there would be no reason to add it in.
    #14
    dazc
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 20:13:08 (permalink)
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    back on the original post
     
    mark, good mornings are a decent exercise, but i dont rate them all that highly for working the hamstrings well.  I think to target the hamstrings and get good growth, you need to work it both at the hips (sldl etc) and from the knees (leg curls etc)
     
    deadlifts and squats will work hammies, but how much depends on how you perform those lifts, your tech, your biomechanic make up etc.  so i do think that most people need to follow those with some additional hamstring work.  i would suggest doing leg curls, either followed by, or occasionally suppersetted with SLDL.
     
    the two exercises also work the muscle at different lengths as well as at different joints.
     
    Its also worth mentioning that i struggled for years with hamstring development, they simply wouldnt grow.  as it turned out i had a problem with sciatic nerve which was inhibiting their growth.  releasing that has seen a big growth spurt on the hamstrings!  not suggesting thats the case for you, but worth bearing in mind if you change things and see little in the way of results
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    iaink
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/29 20:44:27 (permalink)
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    Good posts from Dazc. Do deadlift variants (with good and apprpriate tech), good ROM squats and curl movements and you'll have all your bases covered.
    #16
    mark
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/30 14:48:11 (permalink)
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    Thanks for that guys....have just seen an ideal combo of the above on another site (bodybuilding.com since you ask!...sorry guys) which is a squat and good morning at the same time(Thay call it good morning off pins)...It felt ok when I did it.....will give it a for a while and see if it starts some growth.............
    #17
    iaink
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/30 17:54:25 (permalink)
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    I would do that lift with caution. Infact I'd avoid it as its just not needed.
     
    Doing stuff off the pins gets tricky, particulary with GM's, as you get the line off just a little and it'll hurt. The bar can slide on the pins rather than going staright up. Not good that happening with a GM. Its also a lift that requires you to be competent at both the squat and GM. Maybe you are an experinced squatter and can GM heavy loads whilst maitaining good back position?
     
    Even if this were the case I don't see a GM/squat off the pins being any better for ham size than some of the stuff suggested above. 
    #18
    dazc
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    Re:Hamstrings 2011/03/30 19:21:34 (permalink)
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    agree with iank, i think all the combination exercise is going to do is increase the risk factor.
     
    personally, i use a different bar position for squats and GM's.  not that i do GM's very often, because i believe SLDL's to be superior for hamstring
     
    and ive never met anyone who could do anywhere near their effective squatting weight on a GM!
    #19
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