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Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........

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tbip2001
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2004/02/22 14:44:35 (permalink)
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Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........

Hi everybody.....

Ive been looking into products offererd by the whey consortium.
I will be intending to bulk up again (Ive just finished removing a load of lard with a cutter).

Up untill now, Ive always used whey protien with water, but I'm concerned it may not be being used efficiently by my body.

I would like to try a casienate (Calcium casienate) for use throughout the day.

My question is, what would be the best type of carbs to add (either to whey or Casienate), to make a 'weight gainer' shake.

My shakes will need to have around 50g protein, and around 80g carbs, with minimal fat.

I understand Maltodextrin to be a comlplex carb, BUT treated like a simple one (ie High GI), which although ok for post workout, I'm not sure if this would be wise to be consuming 80g malto in each shake.

What would be the best source of carbs to add to the cas???

Hope you can help
thanks
tbip2001

60 Replies Related Threads

    T-Bone123
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/22 14:50:04 (permalink)
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    I think there are better options than Malto, although it can be useful for convience.

    Oats would be a good option; check out the below link that Smiddy posted a while back might be useful.

    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=67346
    tbip2001
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/22 15:04:00 (permalink)
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    Thankyou mate,

    Will adding low Gi carbs (say from Oatmeal) significantly reduce the absorbtio rate of the already slow Casienate protien.

    Would adding low gi carbs significantly slow the absorbtion of WHEY protien).

    Which combo would be prefered for use throughout the day??(Ie in between meals)

    Also, When using Oats/oat flour, do they need to be cooked before being added??

    Thankyou again mate
    tbip2001
    GoldenArrow
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/22 16:30:47 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by tbip2001

    Thankyou mate,

    Will adding low Gi carbs (say from Oatmeal) significantly reduce the absorbtio rate of the already slow Casienate protien.


    Would adding low gi carbs significantly slow the absorbtion of WHEY protien).



    Don't think either will be affected, may be wrong though.

    quote:

    Which combo would be prefered for use throughout the day??(Ie in between meals)



    The longest lasting, ie whey in milk or cassein if you can afford it

    quote:


    Also, When using Oats/oat flour, do they need to be cooked before being added??



    Nope.

    Just to add, I use skimmed milk powder to make up a weight gainer with whey, it adds carbs, cals, and cassein and is cheap enough (you can buy a cheap version in most supermarkets)
    tbip2001
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/22 20:50:39 (permalink)
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    Yes mate, I know that. I used the term 'Weight gainer' simply to convey the idea behind the 'shake' I am trying to creat.

    You are absolutely correct, regarding the high GI carbs/and excessive insulin spiking mate, hence why I was looking for an alternative to maltodextrin.

    I spec'd 80g carbs simply because this is the necesary value i terms of overall cals to gain. Obviouslyy I would not intend ingesting this amount late at night.

    Thanks to all you guys for the replys, looks like I'll be giving Calcium casienate and oats a go then..... (whey/dextrose in water post workout).

    Thanks again
    tbip2001
    James
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 12:10:33 (permalink)
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    Whilst MD is high on the GI (but yes, so what?) it is a great convenient addition to a busy, easily satgiated bodybuilders diet
    the block
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 15:14:01 (permalink)
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    it has its uses mate.
    T-Bone123
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 15:46:54 (permalink)
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    If you use Maltodextrin + Whey rather than necking it in one go why not just sip it throughout the day. It maybe but Low G.I. but if small quantities are sipped regularly this wouldnt have such an effect on blood sugars but ensure a constant supply of energy (amino acids + glucose). Most people should be able to do this as you could throw it all in water bottle and sip it at your desk etc.

    Just my thoughts anyway.
    smiddy
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 18:10:48 (permalink)
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    i think a weight gainer post workout is not a good option IMO, if you are looking for a carb source after ur workout better to get a 50/50 mix of malto and dextrose/glucose - make your own up or get a lucozade/powerade/gatorade drink

    when i was bulking i found that taking the carbs right after ur workout with your creatine or whatever magic stuff u take then have ur whey 20 minutes later in water, the a meal 30-45 minutes later, but heck it's up to you you can take the whey and carbs at the sametime, the protein might slow down the speed at which the carbs shoot through your body but i doubt it will slow it down too much
    SHADOW
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 20:16:43 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL

    news flash: weight gainers dont mean that ull gain muscle.. it will be mostly fat. unless ur a genetics freak stay away from malto...

    why? malto is a complex carbohydrate and is 0 in sugar.. fair enough.. BUT maltodextrin is the on top on the GI scale. hence this means that it will spike insulin when ingested, ergo it acts exactly like simple sugars like dextrose.

    EAT OATS... best weight gainer would be some oats a good protein powder and u may opt for fat from peanut butter, olive or flaxseed oil..

    having low GI carbs wont slow down the absortion of whey.. malto will let the whey get ingested faster ok.. fair enough but why spike the insulin and risk becoming insulin resistant(or maybe diabetic in the long run) and gain unecessary fat? remember quality calories is what u want.. malto is definitely not a quality carb to take..

    better off with dextrose post wo... that the only place where u should have sugars IMHO and maybe some fructose (fruit) preWO...

    best thing would be.. get urself a blend.. like Syntrax ISOMATRIX and put some oats and/or EFAS in and ur ready to go..



    i think malto is great it mixes easy too having oats in a shake is good for ya but the taste is poor plus all the oats sink to the bottom...
    oh and the chances of gettting diabetic from taking malto is rubbish in my option
    Boxer
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 20:47:55 (permalink)
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    There are question marks whether eating high gi foods all the time can cause type 2 diabetes but I think they will show a stronger link eventually. Just my thoughts.
    Boxer
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 21:05:09 (permalink)
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    Here's an abstarct from the latest study ( they are talking about preventing type 2 diabetes ) 'From existing evidence it is also possible that omega-3 fatty acids, low glycaemic index foods and exclusive breastfeeding may play a protective role, and that total fat intake and trans fatty acids may contribute to the risk. However, insufficient evidence is currently available to provide convincing proof'.

    Here's the study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14972058&dopt=Abstract
    Boxer
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/23 23:42:25 (permalink)
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    If Chad Nicholls or your cousin who is finishing her nutrition degree disagrees they are free to come on the forum and put their points of view across...

    I'm sure that James will post when he's on the forum tomorrow but i'm sure you're aware of the anabolic effects of insulin the most anabolic hormone?







    James
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/24 11:27:05 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL

    quote:
    Originally posted by James

    Whilst MD is high on the GI (but yes, so what?) it is a great convenient addition to a busy, easily satgiated bodybuilders diet



    ur totally ignoring the fact that not everybody wants to gain huge amounts of fat while bulking... i wonder what chad nichols would have to say about ur opinion...

    i dont know why but it seems to me that you fully support the use of high GI carbs to anyone that is bulking.. unless the guys u work with take juice and get cut up easily.. the avegage bber just doesnt want that.. u said "so what" when i posted that milk has 15gr of sugar per glass..

    i dont understand the opinion of someone with a BSc (not sure if thats the case, correct me if i am wrong) in nutrition, supporting the use of the highest GI carb to an athlete that wants to get a nice physique to a time of a day other than post WO.. my cousin who is submiting her PhD in nutrition next month doesnt agree with you.

    especially when all the nutritionist that i have talked to, as well as the seminars and lectures my cousin has attended in the biggest universities in the world argue against that. can u please provide evidence or explain why a bber should ingest MD while bulking if his/her goals are to gain LEAN body mass with the lowest amount of fat mass? cause u didnt explain it the last time...

    also i dont think convinience is the reason why people join a bbing lifestyle.. Mc Ds is convinient as well. many join, cause they want to be healthier and build a nice physique.. well others do it for girls but that not the point...

    dont take this as a personal attack or something.. i am just wondering why u so fanatically support high GI carbs.. cause i dont have a degree in nutrition..


    Firstly convenience is VERY important. BBers have lives aswell as their sport.

    Secondly - forget my BSc and your cousins PhD for a minute. Can you or her present me any evidence which say any preference to the use of low GI carbs over high GI ones in the 2 hours post exercise for glycogen replenishment. You wont be able to as (if we want to use credentials) lectures/seminars I have attended by some of the top names in sprts nutrition world wide cannot show any.

    However I am not shunning the benefits of low GI carbs as they defintely have their uses in sports and bodybuilding. You obviously havent read my posts about me wanting to trial a recipe for a low GI carb powder I ahve in my head. However what I am shunning is your complete negativity over MD use, where it certainly has a significant place. I, and many like me, wouldnt consume anywhere near enough carbs without the use of them. I have to work aswell you know!

    To conclude - I support the use of high GI carbs if incorporated correctly into a bodybuilders diet. This may not be the case for every individual or circumstance, but high GI carbs certainly do have their place. Surely you agree diet would be a struggle if our only carbs were oats and granery bread? (remember we live in the Western World).

    I am positive your cousin will agree with me here. Put my comments to him if you like, but in the way I have expressed to avoid missinterpretation.

    (Please do nto bring credentials into such arguaments though, they are not relevant, science is)

    T-Bone has a good point IMO - sipping is a good idea, this way you are in effect, mimicking a low GI carb

    T-Bone123
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/24 15:36:40 (permalink)
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    Z3ro-Cool:

    Glad you enjoyed the whey, the choc mint stuff you sent me is spot-on.

    What was the total quantity of maltodextrin you ingested?

    What period of time did you sip it over?

    What did you consume the Malto with?

    Boxer
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/24 16:47:08 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL

    fair enough.. but i am sure u know that insulin is also a hormone that promotes massive fat storage... :/


    Have a look at my comments in this thread mate http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=72722
    James
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/24 17:48:07 (permalink)
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    Comments noted, but remembering I was only responding to your original post in response to mine!

    Why should high GI carbs be never at another time, you make it sound like theyll kill you.

    You gain fat if energy in > energy out. Period. So in your little trial you must have been consuming more calories than you were using up then before. Sugar, MD, white bread, etc - don't just get turned to fat they are used for energy or dealt with as appropriate, just likw oats and granary bread are.

    I think you are unclear about the insulin response. What do you mean by 'SKY high'? Sky high leans me to think of insulin resistance which is another issue. Post the figures and Ill comment better. Please get your cousin to explain the insulin response to you. I don't wish to sound patronising, but I do think you're overcomplicating things.

    Do you don't think that large rises in blood sugar predispose to diabetes?
    tbip2001
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/24 18:39:21 (permalink)
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    "To conclude - I support the use of high GI carbs if incorporated correctly into a bodybuilders diet. "

    James: can you elaborate on this mate??

    My shakes for use throughout the day, will probably consist of a mixture of Calcium Casienate/Oats/ AND maltodextrin (as you say, to consume enough carbs/cals without is very dificult).

    How would you go about using the MD, taking into account my shakes will be consumed around 10.30am, 3.30pm, 7.30pm (PW), and 9.30pm.

    Im guessing the 7.30 shake should be Whey/high GI carbs, and the 9.30 shake should be just CC??

    Oh yeah.. how come your always so diplomatic!! lol...

    Thanks mate
    tbip2001
    James
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/24 19:11:53 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by tbip2001

    "To conclude - I support the use of high GI carbs if incorporated correctly into a bodybuilders diet. "

    James: can you elaborate on this mate??

    My shakes for use throughout the day, will probably consist of a mixture of Calcium Casienate/Oats/ AND maltodextrin (as you say, to consume enough carbs/cals without is very dificult).

    How would you go about using the MD, taking into account my shakes will be consumed around 10.30am, 3.30pm, 7.30pm (PW), and 9.30pm.

    Im guessing the 7.30 shake should be Whey/high GI carbs, and the 9.30 shake should be just CC??

    Oh yeah.. how come your always so diplomatic!! lol...

    Thanks mate
    tbip2001


    I can only elaborate on an individual basis. I need to know your diet in food terms and goals

    Diplomacy comes from over 20,000 posts on different forums (sad I know)
    smiddy
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    RE: Is Maltodextrin unsuitable for........ 2004/02/24 19:38:32 (permalink)
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    got a question!

    i have a full tub of pro-mass, i am currently trying to loss a bit of fat and when i do, i am going to maintain my weight and physic

    i know malto is not ideal carb for weight loss due to it having a very high gi, but i was wondering if i add half a serving of CNP promass, then add some more whey powder to it and some more oats, so i get the correct amount of carbs and protein i need per meal etc, will this hinder my efforts or will taking 1-2 of these shakes a day be alright?
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