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Hot!Is physiotherapy deceptive

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Muscle
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2018/08/02 23:47:37 (permalink)
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Is physiotherapy deceptive

I know some will seriously disagree with me here. I certainly don't have any intention of try this, but I feel if someone has good people skills, medical books, the internet, perhaps a 2 weeks crash course they could actually pretend to be a physio. I think someone could successfully deceive the public and emulate this job. Certainly an NHS role. Now if your a doctor or trade like a plumber, electrician or a mechanic you must know exactly what to do and have a positive outcome. You couldn't fake this.
 
My reasoning is they just don't seem to do any thing or make any significant improvements. If they do great, if you stay the same or your condition get worse it doesn't matter it's still £50 for the 30mins.
 
I pulled my left adductor around 8 weeks ago. This issue just wouldn't go. But its better now. My own soft tissue work, mobility work and some basic corrective work and proper rest from all training.
 
I even went to private physiotherapy just get my posture check get his thoughts on a few things and discussed my leg. I went twice for £100. But what did I really gain. It made zero difference. I got better on my own. He was a nice guy and wanted to help. These people are very smart and have put the time in to do all the studying but I was left thinking many people not everyone but certainly many could pretend to be physiotherapist.
 
Say someone has a back or shoulder issue. You could learn the technical language, basic corrective exercisers, soft tissue so now you sound professional. Would anyone really think no, I don't think he was a physiotherapist.   
post edited by Muscle - 2018/08/02 23:54:09

Follow the evidence wherever it leads - Socrates


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    Trunks
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/03 00:11:34 (permalink)
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    I see what you're saying and to certain extent I agree. I went to the nhs for my issue. I saw four physios in six months and only one really helped.

    The others were too softly softly whereas the one who made a difference had me pushing myself much harder in terms of the exercises I was doing.

    It also struck me how miserable they all seemed. Not a smile between them. There are definitely physios out there who genuinely get consistent results so there's definitely something to it, but yes, I definitely think it's one of those jobs you could blag.

    Muscle
    Now if your a doctor or trade like a plumber, electrician or a mechanic you must know exactly what to do and have a positive outcome. You couldn't fake this.


    I dunno, I think I could blag being a GP. I don't go to my GP very often but I'm always alarmed at how whenever I do go to him with an ailment, he's just straight on Google looking up my symptoms and what medication might work. I mean aren't they supposed to know that already? What do they learn at med school?

    As for blagging a trade. I've seen people do it. I know a guy who advertises himself as a plumber. Even though he has zero qualifications or experience and just uses Google to figure it out. To be fair though he's pretty smart and he does have a natural aptitude for the work. On top of that he does it on a no fix no fee basis. If he can't fix your leaking toilet or blocked drain then he won't charge you for it.
    post edited by Trunks - 2018/08/03 00:30:25
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    SeanR
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/03 04:31:59 (permalink)
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    Ive had more bad experiences with physio's than good ones, a lot more.
     
    When I think back, its surprising what some of them get away with, just after your money and do nothing.
     
    On the other hand, really been helped on a few occasions. The difference between these guys and the previous I mention is immense. Very knowledgeable and appeared to give a **** (even if bored of same old moaning gits coming in lol)
     
    I suppose its the same as any trade, good, bad and average. 
     
    The latest physio happens to be a bodybuilder, so I guess that helps.
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    doc
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/03 07:05:50 (permalink)
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    A bad physio who just gives you a cookie cutter exercise plan yes. A good physio who give you the right treatment based on assessing you properly on body mechanics , bad posture etc most definitely not !  
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    Rasputin
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/03 07:40:17 (permalink)
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    My main gripe with Physios is that they cant see inside your body and only make judgements based on what they can see or feel thus often missing root cause. Prime example of this was when I broke my leg I was struggling to use my shoulder as I also broke it when I feel. The restricted mobility was obvious and she had me doing squats yes squats to build up my core to help bring my shoulder into line. Eventually I just snapped at her one day and said you're incompetent I am doing what you tell me its not getting any better at 32 in good physical health and engaging in regular sporting activity the one size fits all approach they have for a lot of elderly patients just wasn't working. In the end I paid to go see a specialist who then sent me for an MRI which showed two detached ligaments so no wonder it wasn't working. Through that I got another operation then saw their physics who were specialists in that they did and had all the notes. As already said some care more about their jobs and are more informed some are less so. 

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    powerpusher
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/03 17:04:03 (permalink)
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    NHS physiotherapist are useless. I think they get into it to do nothing rather than to help people

    Private physio, most are crap. I've probably seen 10+ and met 1 good one. Sadly he moved away and now I'm stuck without one again



    Psalm 144:1 - Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

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    Muscle
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/03 23:45:38 (permalink)
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    Its not entirely their fault but their just not worth anyway near what they change. There isn't a magic wand, even for a nasty pulled muscle. For most issues I think you just help yourself. Even complex shoulder or back issues.
     
    I remember when I had back issues around 10-15 years ago. I can honestly say a book which cost about £5 called The Egoscue method of health through motion, actually put me back together again as a whole. It was of more help than any physiotherapist. That's quite something really. Probably one guy called Jan keller online posture program in London also helped.
     
    For me its because they don't need a winning outcome. There is probably good and bad plumbers but they still fix the problem and complete the job. Where as only a rare, probably very rare physiotherapist who really knows how to address postural and movement pattern problems and can give you the right corrective exercisers is going help any problem or certainly complex problems. Why isn't it other way round 10+ good ones and one bad one?  
     
     
    post edited by Muscle - 2018/08/03 23:50:07

    Follow the evidence wherever it leads - Socrates


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    newcastle
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/04 07:27:56 (permalink)
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    There are good physios knocking about but they are definitely few and far between. I've only ever seen two decent ones in my life and both of them played sport. They just seem to understand things better and can see things from your point of view.
    The better of the two good ones was a competitive strong woman at quite a high level and was a physio for the marines and a local rugby team. She was fukcing class but moved away from the area.
    I definitely agree with the blag part. I'm pretty sure I could do it and be better than 80% of physios.
    Wholeheartedly agree with the doctor assessments by Google now, I actually find it quite alarming.
    I went to the doctors a while ago and they actually asked me what I wanted them to do about it! I said your the fukcing doctor you tell me.
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    Skrewdriver
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/08 11:42:02 (permalink)
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    I've seen three NHS physios, and they were all EXCELLENT.  Friendly, understanding, very knowledgable, got to the root of the issue and provided solutions that worked.  Very impressed.
     
    I have seen two private physios, - one was the same as above (who worked in a private hospital), - the other was completely useless (worked in a commercial gym).
     
    Private or NHS, in my experience makes no diffefence - one of the good NHS physios left halfway through my course and went private, for eg
     
    I do personally believe that good physios are HUGELY valuable

    I used to walk into a room full of people & wonder if they liked me..... Now I look around & wonder if I like them
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    jack5r
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/12 20:46:12 (permalink)
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    You know nothing. The Dunning Kruger effect comes to mind.

    So you worked out how to recover from a groin strain, one of the most basic injuries and now you think you’re a physio lol. I’d like you to come join me at work tomorrow and see you squirm. You’d also be putting people at risk. Our assesments screen for more sinister conditions, which could be causing pain and need an onward referral. You wouldn’t know that though.

    First of all you need solid A levels. Then it’s an intense 3 year course. A lot more work than most degrees. And then once you graduate you are continually training and learning. As a nhs junior I received around 4 hours a week of training or 1-1 contact with a senior. Everyday you are still learning new things, having to look up conditions you haven’t come across, read the latest research paper on xyz etc. And then even after all that you don’t even start the really learning and cementing knowledge until you go into the real world and see 60 patients a week. Many of which are highly complex with several comorbidities. The number of things which can go wrong with the body is vast. We are far more complicated than a car engine.

    Many physios like myself work in the nhs and private. You can get good and bad in both, but NHS physios are often better as we receive continued training and have to meet yearly objectives. We have to stay up to date with the latest research. In either, the level of experience is also very important. Once you’re fully private the onus is on you to fund post grad courses and continue to follow the latest evidence base, which is forever growing and changing. What we were doing 10 years ago is very different to now, but you wouldn’t know that unless it’s your area of work.

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    #10
    Muscle
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/13 00:10:53 (permalink)
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    The thread was mainly about the success rate of people who have had physiotherapy. I said in my first post a physio has to be smart and put the work in.
     
    I'm not saying if someone was to deceive the public they would be a good physio. Could that person fake been a physiotherapist dispite not really knowing what they are doing. When I had back issues years ago physiotherapy did make me recover. I wouldn't have got better without it, but it was an online program from someone in London, and reading books. Grey cook, shirley sahrmann, etc. Hard reading.
     
    I know very little about the body or how it works. You have to make yourself better from my experience. Maybe not working with you. But someone working on their own might be able to fake it. Another gentleman on here said he thought someone could fake been a GP. I think someone would be found out there pretty quick.
     
    post edited by Muscle - 2018/08/13 00:41:13

    Follow the evidence wherever it leads - Socrates


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    makaveli1971 1996
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/13 08:38:01 (permalink)
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    My experience with NHS physiotherapists was nothing short of shambolic.

    Bare in mind I had to see a supposed specialist for a second opinion, who both made my condition FAR worse than when I went in...

    So I had a tendon issue, and that’s all I believed it were at first, but the majority of my pain, and so it turns out today was neurological related.

    I had pretty bad damage to my brachial plexus, radial nerve, median nerve, musculocutaneous nerve.

    The physio did recognise there maybe something neurological going on, but didn’t want to waste time finding out, and instead kept telling me to load, load, load. Which turned out the worst thing you could do for the nerve damage I’ve had.

    I went from feeling ok, besides being injured, to a complete wreck, the more I tried to train and load, the more damaged these nerves were becoming, and it got to a point where I just knew I had to stop.

    The physio nonetheless disagreed, and the supposed specialist physiotherapist tried fobbing me off with its more in your head, and you have something called central nervous system sensitisation going on, and told me to keep training, and it will go away in 6 months lol.

    I’m now seeing a chiropractor, and a neurologist. The neurologist is amazed at the specialists incompetence to give me the correct diagnosis, and has informed me to complain.

    Because I showed no signs of a life threatening disease, and that’s all the physio and specialist physio kept blabbering on about, they couldn’t help me any further and discharged me feeling 10x worse than when I went in 5 months prior.

    So a completely wasted 5 months, that actually made me worse, not to mention I never went in thinking I had a life threatening disease, just an injury from weight training.

    Physio’s may understand muscles, tendons, and soft tissues, but they clearly have no idea how to deal with neurological factors.

    So if you have something neurological going on, be sure to stay well away from any physiotherapists, and get yourself to a neurologist, and a good chiropractor, who will know exactly what to do, and more importantly what NOT to do.

    I’ve been told to stay away from any resistance completely for at least 6 months, probably stretching to 12, with the neurologist hoping surgery is not something that will be required, and if it is, No doubt that’ll be partly down to the physiotherapists I saw on the NHS, who pushed me into a deeper hole of damage than I had to begin with.

    If you love something let it go,if it comes back to you it's yours,if it doesn't it never was.
    #12
    jack5r
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/13 08:42:42 (permalink)
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    Well the title is ‘is physiotherapy deceptive’ with the initial paragraph saying that you think someone could successfully deceive the public with a 2 week crash course...

    The only setting this could occur in is one where you had your own clinic set up. There is no way you would make it through an nhs or private interview. We’d know within seconds.

    I think you are underestimating the publics ability to smell a bull shltter. Even if you are a eloquent communicator, using medical sounding language to try and bamboozle someone, there will be many little signs in your body language and tone of voice that you are lying. Your handling would be clumsy and they’d quickly lose trust in you. Come up against a patient of decent intelligence or someone who has had lots of physio in the past and they will quickly smell a rat. Not to mention that as a physio we often treat other healthcare professionals. I’ve treated many nurses, doctors and even orthopaedic consultants.

    Your results and reviews would also be very poor and so you’d make f all money. Like a doctor, physio is a protected title requiring insurance. If you were found out or ended up hurting something or missing something dangerous, you wouldn’t be insured and would be financially f’d.
    post edited by jack5r - 2018/08/13 08:47:01

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    #13
    Muscle
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    Re: Is physiotherapy deceptive 2018/08/13 17:29:51 (permalink)
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    Yes that would be how someone would do it, have their own clinic. Good communicator and just own that role body language wise. I'd be hopeless at trying that, but some people might be able to pull it off.
     
    The Dunning Kruger effect and I think I'm physio isn't correct. It was a question of faking it and knowing your way out of your depth but still pulling it off. That's different to someone who really thinks he understands it all. Maybe a school PE teacher or PT could also be faked.
     
    The results might be bad or you might make clients worse. I was made worse years ago, I didn't question if he was actually qualified though. A quick google search shows people have had a go, a woman claiming she worked for the England rugby team. She's gone over the top there, but perhaps if someone kept their head down they might see it through. A client with more knowledge would be sticky but perhaps only another health professional as you pointed out would see through the conman. Just avoid them.
     
    I think one of the reasons I made vast improvements with the online guys years ago with my back was because they were up to speed on the latest research. One guy tony gentilcore in the US and Jan keller in London gave me many corrective exercisers specific to me.
     
    See a physio in person though there was never a goal of getting my pelvis back to a neural position, step by step. Progress each week working towards a goal. There was no goal.
     
    To sum up I wanted to know how people get on in general with physiotherapy, be it a shoulder or back or pulled muscle etc. From my experience they don't help much if at all and can make things worse. I don't think this is usual. Unless you find the one out of the many.
     
    post edited by Muscle - 2018/08/13 22:32:13

    Follow the evidence wherever it leads - Socrates


    #14
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