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J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice?

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Scourge_of_God
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2004/02/12 16:53:20 (permalink)
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J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice?

I've decided to give the powerlifting a rest for the minute and want a routine for functional strength and to do a bit of work on my grip strength. The problem is that I've never done anything like this before so I'm not sure how to go about it... Here's what I've got so far.

Two day split...

Workout A:

Overhead squat 4x3
One-handed barbell snatch 4x1
Goodmornings 4x3
Plate curls 2x6

Workout B:

Power cleans 6x1
Bent press 4x3
Bent-over row 4x3
Abs (weighted sit-ups, probably) 2x6

...and I'll stick in some gripper work (COCs should be coming soon) and some CV work in between. Thoughts/advice?

Other than that, I was wondering about the feasibility of:

One-handed overhead barbell squat (hehe...)
Repped sets on the bent press - Does that work?

...and can someone direct me on the correct technique for plate curls?

#1

16 Replies Related Threads

    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/12 20:08:30 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JohnnyFive

    A few questions:

    What can you do in the power lifts?
    What can you do in the Olympic lifts?
    Do you lift for any specific reason.. ie sports?


    Powerlifting:

    Squat - 200kg (belt)
    Bench - 125.5kg (raw)
    D'lift - 220kg (belt)

    I would lift in the 75kg (165lb) category. I currently weight 73kg. I'm 19 yo.

    I've never really done Oly lifting properly... I've used the clean to improve my powerlifts and the one-handed snatch 'cos I like it. Never done full clean+jerk or proper snatch.

    I started p'lifting to help me play rugby. For a while I was interested in the p'lifting competitively but I've wasted too much of my time in education for that to be viable now. Now I just lift because I enjoy it and I want to be strong.

    Do you mind if I ask why you wanted to know this?
    #2
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/12 20:54:35 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Whether you plan on competing or not, gain some weight. I don't know how tall you are but that's light, and you can't flex bone! Not everyone can be a mighty mouse, you may find that another 20lbs of muscle mass will have you lifting some serious weight. Also bear in mind if you do decide to compete eventually at a lighter weight, all you have to do is cut a little.


    I'm about 5'11" - Not too sure exactly how tall I am though - I've met guys shorter than me who claim to be 6'.
    quote:

    As far as your routine goes exercises need to be in this order if you go with that routine:

    One-handed barbell snatch 4x1
    Overhead squat 4x3
    Goodmornings 4x3
    Plate curls 2x6

    Bent press 4x3
    Power cleans 6x1
    Bent-over row 4x3
    Abs (weighted sit-ups, probably) 2x6

    Exercises go in the order: technique, dynamic, compound.. I'm only guessing here but I would imagine that for you one handed snatch and bent press are a bit dodgy technique wise, tell me if I'm wrong. Those are also the kind of exercises where if you perform them whilst fatigued and lose the barbell they tend to rip your arms off. Other than that I think it's a solid routine, changing it up in this way will definitely do your deadlift and squat some good but bear in mind your bench might take a little drop, I don't know if that bothers you? Also it looks to me like you might have included the bent press as a tricep exercise? If so you need to realise that with correct form the triceps are barely involved.


    Thanks... I've always worked off the principle that those exercises which use the greatest no. muscle groups should go first, but it makes sense that the one-handed snatch and the bent press should go first 'cos of the technique issues.

    My form for the bent press sucks - I especially have problems with rotating the bar. My form for the one-handed bb snatch is unreliable - Last time I used it I set a new max. of 47kg - It was quite hard with the right hand but the I hit it really well with my left (I'm right handed) and it felt like the weight practically floated up.

    I realise that there isn't much in that routine for the triceps, but I think the problem with my bench is my shoulder strength - I can bench 125kg but my half press is about 140kg.

    Any thoughts on the feasibility of the one-handed overhead bb squat?


    #3
    mb
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 05:30:37 (permalink)
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    Scourge of God, I noticed your last name on your email address. Have you got Polish or Czech background?
    #4
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 12:26:38 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by mb

    Scourge of God, I noticed your last name on your email address. Have you got Polish or Czech background?


    My dad is Czech... Well spotted.
    #5
    mb
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 12:52:00 (permalink)
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    Ahoj!

    I'm Polish BTW.
    #6
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 13:03:53 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by mb

    Ahoj!

    I'm Polish BTW.


    Eastern European lifters... We rock.

    Thoughts on the routine?
    #7
    mb
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 13:17:23 (permalink)
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    Well mate, I've never tried any training like that so I don't know enough about it to comment. I'll leave it to the experts.

    I intend to do some Snatches and Cleans one day - always been very impressed by Olympic Lifting myself.
    #8
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 15:38:23 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JohnnyFive

    I mean you could do a one-handed ballistic overhead squat on a wobble board with a backflip at the end.


    Sweet... I never thought of that one. Thanks.
    quote:

    Basically unless your overhead squat is of epic proportions (ie 15 reps at bodyweight) I wouldn't even consider making it more complicated.


    OK. I'm just worried about my shoulder flexibility when I get on to heavier weights and was wondering if there might be a way around the problem. Will stick to the convential overhead squat for the minute then.
    #9
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 16:13:19 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JohnnyFive

    quote:
    OK. I'm just worried about my shoulder flexibility when I get on to heavier weights and was wondering if there might be a way around the problem. Will stick to the convential overhead squat for the minute then.

    Shoulder flexibility is less of a concern with higher weights as the weight will force the shoulder into position, in terms of flexibility the hardest thing to overhead squat is a broomstick as you have to hold it their by your own power rather than be forced back. What higher weights do is increase the strength needed not the flexibility as such.
    Also if you want to work on shoulder flexibility take a narrower grip on the bar, try a clean grip makes it much tougher. And squat ass to grass as opposed to parallel.



    Alright... Thanks.
    #10
    Blood Sport
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/13 16:36:05 (permalink)
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    Tommy Kono Sggests an Excercise where take a Broom Handle and Hold it at each end infront of you (as if in finished deadlift Position), then Rotate your arms out infront to Overhead and keep going until the Position is reversed Behind you, Do this for a Minute or So, Or say for 20 Reps. Then Next time (Say two days later) Move your hands in half an each way and repeat. This is a great way to increase the Shoulder flexibility for your needs! He also Reccamends Delibratly Losing a Light Barbell behind you a Couple of time (Learn How to Lose it Properly First)Before Performing the Excercise as this will help and Improve Confidence Ect..
    #11
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/16 15:18:38 (permalink)
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    I'm beginning to hate the OH squat. Previous experience would suggest that this is the only reason I should ever need to carry on doing it, but I wonder if I'm beginning to hate it for the wrong reasons i.e. it's not really any more taxing on the posterior chain than the regular squat and it's pretty easy on my shoulders with the weights that I'm using - The only thing that makes it difficult is the fact that it is so bloody awkward.

    Any thoughts on how to squat ass to grass without:

    a) falling over backwards
    b) leaning so far forward I dump the weight
    c) tearing every single muscle, tendon and ligament in my groin.

    Anyone?
    #12
    Robert
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/16 15:37:37 (permalink)
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    i like the order j5 has given, i have a routine with very similar exersize selection, as you know, and have found that puttine the 1armBBsnatch before OH squat is usefull. i too noticed that often my OH squat [esp during the first few weeks of doing it] wasn't heavy enough to work my shoulders, so afterwards i would maybe do a couple of sets of handstand pressups. but now that the weight is going up i have stopped that.

    if you want to make the 1armBBsnatch any harder try it with an object [i use a jerry can now and again], it is horrendusly difficult.

    as has been said, 1armOHsquat is pointless, although very tough on core and wrists, carries little or no benifits that squatting would normally give you.

    i have found that at first, flexibility was a serious issue with overhead squatting, but since i started doing them in at the start of jan this year, they have improved drasiticlly. at first, just go to parrell, then work on going lower. i stayed at 20kg [oly bar only] for 3 weeks before trying to go ass to grass on worksets. its a bit like coming out of a full snatch. and again, as johnny said, wider hands = easier.

    never tried the bent press so cannot comment on that. wish i had included GM's in mine, might try them now and again for a change but am sticking to the original plan for the forseeable future. all in all, a bloody nice routine.

    good luck
    rob

    also note, your original post was on the 12th, must of missed it or would of responded sooner.
    #13
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/17 00:27:03 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    i too noticed that often my OH squat [esp during the first few weeks of doing it] wasn't heavy enough to work my shoulders.


    I did the OH squat for the second time 'properly' today. I managed 70kg for a single. Again, this wasn't too hard physically (felt it a little in the shoulders) but the problem is still mainly balance. I suspect that I should take more time to get the technique right first, but its so frustrating moving little weights.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert
    if you want to make the 1armBBsnatch any harder try it with an object [i use a jerry can now and again], it is horrendusly difficult.


    Nah... I'm alright for the moment. I just want to focus on making my technique more consistent.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert
    i stayed at 20kg [oly bar only] for 3 weeks before trying to go ass to grass on worksets. its a bit like coming out of a full snatch. and again, as johnny said, wider hands = easier.


    Damn... I doubt I have that kind of restraint. Unfortunately, my arms aren't long enough to have my grip as wide as I'd like it (too wide and the bar rests on my skull). I dunno if that is making the balancing issue more difficult.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert
    all in all, a bloody nice routine.

    also note, your original post was on the 12th, must of missed it or would of responded sooner.


    Thanks and no worries...
    quote:
    Originally posted by JohnnyFive
    But if you have the balls to stick to it you'll learn to LOVE the exercise. I went through exactly the same thing.


    I was afraid you'd say that...

    Re: bent press - Is there any real reason why I have to rotate the bar through 90° (from the hammer grip to the overhand grip) during the lift. Could I not just start and finish the lift with the overhand grip? I ask because the gym staff where I train are just looking for an excuse to have a go at me for my 'radical' training style and, with the amount of space available, twatting someone round the head with the end of the barbell isn't exactly going help my cause. Also, how much weight should I be using to start out with. My overhead press 1RM is ca. 85kg. Today, 30kg for 3 on the bent press was v. tough - Is this as lame as I think it is? (indicative of a certain weakness?)
    #14
    Dano
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/17 04:21:58 (permalink)
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    I wouldnt do singles on the overheads, especially starting out. Do higher rep sets of around 8-10 reps and you'll definately feel it more in the shoulders.
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    Robert
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/17 12:23:44 (permalink)
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    dano is on. higher reps means lighter weight and that IME makes it harder to balence anyway, which in turn improves your form. i used 3x15 reps for the 1st week, 3x10 in the second and 3x8 in the 3rd.... and so on.... now i do 2x3[warmup] and 3x3 worksets.

    also, i too am not exactly short [5'9ish], but tried to get my arms in the snatch position and noticed that the bar was a mere 3-4" above my head, which, although worring at first, is fine now.

    rob
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    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: J5/Robert/whoever - Any advice? 2004/02/17 13:22:48 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Dano

    I wouldnt do singles on the overheads, especially starting out. Do higher rep sets of around 8-10 reps and you'll definately feel it more in the shoulders.


    Well... I wasn't intending to do it for a single, but I wasn't happy balancing it so I racked it after my first.

    Rob - I use the snatch grip. Earlier I was trying to put my hands against the plates and it just didn't work with my height/arm length.
    #17
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