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Knees coming in on heavy squats

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danchubbz
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2011/03/21 13:05:10 (permalink)
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Knees coming in on heavy squats

Starting to piss me off now, was progressing well on the Wendler 531 but the last couple of squat sessions on the last few heavy reps my knees come in on the bottom of the squat to keep the bar moning.
 
Would u say that more than likely I have stronger quads than hamstrings, and also do u think doing more sumo squats would help with the issue?
 
cheers
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    CitizenKane
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 13:12:32 (permalink)
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    I find this tends to happen to me if I'm doing a high bar squat with a moderate stance (and fronties for the same reasons). Ever since I moved to a low bar position it has stopped happening (and I've lifted heavier weights than I ever thought I would, but that's a side issue!), presumably because it changes the focus of the lift from a knee driven one to a hip driven one - when coming out of the hole with a low-bar squat all your emphasis will (should) be on your ass/lower back/hips in driving the bar upward as this is effectively where the load will be in that position, your knees should just follow the hips up.
     
    How do you squat?
    post edited by CitizenKane - 2011/03/21 13:14:20

    "Be adequate"
     
    #2
    danchubbz
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 13:26:30 (permalink)
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    cheers CK,
     
    I do already squat with the bar low down my back, even had a few comments from people with how low I place it!
    #3
    CitizenKane
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 13:33:21 (permalink)
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    Hmm well that's not the problem then! I dunno I just found that problem inherently went away when I moved to low-bar. Rippetoe talks about this though, and I think he says it's all just about mental cues.
     
    Practice squatting down with no bar and push your knees apart with your elbows. Then when you are squatting with a bar try to emulate that pushing out of your knees 'with your mind' (I think that's what he says, LOL). And also focus on driving the hips/ass up. Doing both of these should help the problem. If not, then maybe look elsewhere for the cause, such as muscle imbalances, etc?

    "Be adequate"
     
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    Ak_88
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 13:35:03 (permalink)
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    danchubbz

    Starting to piss me off now, was progressing well on the Wendler 531 but the last couple of squat sessions on the last few heavy reps my knees come in on the bottom of the squat to keep the bar moning.

    Would u say that more than likely I have stronger quads than hamstrings, and also do u think doing more sumo squats would help with the issue?

    cheers

     
    I'd say the issue is more in your glutes than your hams. Knee's caving in generally equates to weak glutes and having adductors & quads take the brunt because you can't hold that abducted position in the knees. Personally I'd say drop the weight and groove the technique to make sure you can stop your knees caving in, but when I've been able to squat in the past I've been guilty of only sticking to it for a while! Maybe look at some glute activation work too.
     
    Of course you could have some form of biomechanical dysfunction, but I just go on what I've seen Eric Cressey and co talk about
    post edited by Ak_88 - 2011/03/21 13:44:18
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    iaink
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 13:50:54 (permalink)
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    As above could be a few things.
     
    Firstly see if some relativly minor technical thing will help. Are you focusing on pushing the legs out and descending between the legs? Maybe a slightly wider stance will help and a slight turn out of the feet.
     
    If the above dosn't work then maybe there are other issues. Those could be tough to address on 'tnet :)
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    SecondRow
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 14:07:11 (permalink)
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    as iank says, turning your feet out should help. When you set your feet, imagine that you are going to keep your knees pointing between your big and little toes throughout. When you drive upwards, keep the weight away from the inside of your feet.
     
    You should drop your weight whilst you figure this out of course, because it will be quite a difficult thing to mentally overcome, as you are used to performing the drive with the load on your quads.

    Current training: 6-day split
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    #7
    CitizenKane
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 14:22:52 (permalink)
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    Hey SecondRow, could you turn on PM's? You seem to have them disabled? Want to pick your brain about something!

    "Be adequate"
     
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    SecondRow
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 14:51:51 (permalink)
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    should be on now CK

    Current training: 6-day split
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    Current stats:
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    iaink
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 14:54:24 (permalink)
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    SecondRow

    should be on now CK


    All that effort for nudy pics of CK :)
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    SecondRow
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 15:05:21 (permalink)
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    lol why do you think I turned them off in the first place

    Current training: 6-day split
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    #11
    danchubbz
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 20:29:14 (permalink)
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    cheers for the feedback guys,
     
    yes I do tend to tey and push out with my legs as I squat just not managing to keep them out on the heavy reps recently!
     
    I have been creeping the weight up as per Wendler's instructions, what do u guys think would be a good accessory exercise with squats and deads for me glutes?
    #12
    Rachfit
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 20:30:56 (permalink)
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    When this happens it could mean that you are ligament dominant. This is when the lateral rotators are not firing properly which could be for a few biomechanical reasons.
     
    sub clinical muscle spasm
    OR
    reciprocal inhibtion
    OR
    glutes could be weak
    OR
    technique is off (possibly due to too much weight too soon)
     
    The important thing is to find the cause as the method of addressing these possibilities is contradicting. so if you get it wrong you could compound the problem.
     
    If you have muscle spasm/reciprocal inhibition then you need to use anti spasm MET's followed by conditioning work.
    If the glutes are weak they need conditioning.
    If it is technique you will need to drop the weight and re- address some of the weaknesses you will have been enhancing
     

    "If you cant explain it simply, you dont understand it well enough" Albert Einstein
    Rach
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    Specialist Biomechanics Coach 
     
    #13
    danchubbz
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 20:40:41 (permalink)
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    Rachfit

    When this happens it could mean that you are ligament dominant. This is when the lateral rotators are not firing properly which could be for a few biomechanical reasons.

    sub clinical muscle spasm
    OR
    reciprocal inhibtion
    OR
    glutes could be weak
    OR
    technique is off (possibly due to too much weight too soon)

    The important thing is to find the cause as the method of addressing these possibilities is contradicting. so if you get it wrong you could compound the problem.

    If you have muscle spasm/reciprocal inhibition then you need to use anti spasm MET's followed by conditioning work.
    If the glutes are weak they need conditioning.
    If it is technique you will need to drop the weight and re- address some of the weaknesses you will have been enhancing


    thanks rach, where would I get the anti spasm MET's?
     
    what would u recommend for conditioning the glutes?
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    Rachfit
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 20:53:47 (permalink)
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    danchubbz


    thanks rach, where would I get the anti spasm MET's?

    what would u recommend for conditioning the glutes?


    http://www.intelligenttrainingsystems.com/videos.php
     
    Look for the 4 sign exercise here mate, try it for 2-4 weeks 4 times a day and see how you feel.
    Conditioning work would be anything that works the glutes but I should start with simple stuff like clams, abductor work with resstance tubing or lateral leg work.

    "If you cant explain it simply, you dont understand it well enough" Albert Einstein
    Rach
    DipITS MBCA
    Specialist Biomechanics Coach 
     
    #15
    danchubbz
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/21 21:11:07 (permalink)
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    Rachfit

    danchubbz


    thanks rach, where would I get the anti spasm MET's?

    what would u recommend for conditioning the glutes?


    http://www.intelligenttrainingsystems.com/videos.php

    Look for the 4 sign exercise here mate, try it for 2-4 weeks 4 times a day and see how you feel.
    Conditioning work would be anything that works the glutes but I should start with simple stuff like clams, abductor work with resstance tubing or lateral leg work.


    sorry not sure where I should be looking!!
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    Bollard
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/22 09:21:48 (permalink)
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    ...and are you squatting barefoot?
     
    I find that trainers stop the heel drive in the low part of the squat and bugger technique right up.
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    Rachfit
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/22 09:36:29 (permalink)
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    danchubbz

    Rachfit

    danchubbz


    thanks rach, where would I get the anti spasm MET's?

    what would u recommend for conditioning the glutes?


    http://www.intelligenttrainingsystems.com/videos.php

    Look for the 4 sign exercise here mate, try it for 2-4 weeks 4 times a day and see how you feel.
    Conditioning work would be anything that works the glutes but I should start with simple stuff like clams, abductor work with resstance tubing or lateral leg work.


    sorry not sure where I should be looking!!


    hold the cursor over the arrow until you get to the video that says 4 sign and click- it should play but if you have problems let me know

    "If you cant explain it simply, you dont understand it well enough" Albert Einstein
    Rach
    DipITS MBCA
    Specialist Biomechanics Coach 
     
    #18
    danchubbz
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/22 14:00:33 (permalink)
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    Bollard

    ...and are you squatting barefoot?

    I find that trainers stop the heel drive in the low part of the squat and bugger technique right up.


    yes i do
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    danchubbz
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    Re:Knees coming in on heavy squats 2011/03/22 14:02:11 (permalink)
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    Rachfit

    danchubbz

    Rachfit

    danchubbz


    thanks rach, where would I get the anti spasm MET's?

    what would u recommend for conditioning the glutes?


    http://www.intelligenttrainingsystems.com/videos.php

    Look for the 4 sign exercise here mate, try it for 2-4 weeks 4 times a day and see how you feel.
    Conditioning work would be anything that works the glutes but I should start with simple stuff like clams, abductor work with resstance tubing or lateral leg work.


    sorry not sure where I should be looking!!


    hold the cursor over the arrow until you get to the video that says 4 sign and click- it should play but if you have problems let me know


    sorry but speakers on my laptop are broken
    #20
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