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LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES

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Boditronics Ltd
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 11:43:37 (permalink)
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generally it is all about legislation you may be able to legally buy the ingredients seperatly  but you are not allowed to blend them together and sell them as one product , UK / EU legislation is very tight as Graduate intimated , Alot of US product simply do not meet this legislation so should not be sold here . They are only because the authorties have not yet caught up with them , with the olympics coming i strongly suspect they will sharpen their act . Indeed i know of several retailers who have already been hit and told to remove all non compliant products from their shelves or face prosecution  already. We would love a level playing field  but currently this is not the case .
 
Wurz
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 11:55:41 (permalink)
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Boditronics Ltd

generally it is all about legislation you may be able to legally buy the ingredients seperatly  but you are not allowed to blend them together and sell them as one product , UK / EU legislation is very tight as Graduate intimated , Alot of US product simply do not meet this legislation so should not be sold here . They are only because the authorties have not yet caught up with them , with the olympics coming i strongly suspect they will sharpen their act . Indeed i know of several retailers who have already been hit and told to remove all non compliant products from their shelves or face prosecution  already. We would love a level playing field  but currently this is not the case .

Wurz

thanks for coming back to me -it helps me get a clearer picture.
CitizenKane
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 12:45:26 (permalink)
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iaink

Not wasting time on wild and speculative supps with little evidence? Yes that would be my first guess.

The US market is certanly the field leader in hyperbole and full page adds in muscle mags :)

Off course restrictive legislation helps, but maybe its not allways a bad thing?

 
This.
 
Peanuts

How many choices do you want?!  The market is saturated with useless supplements that in most cases create expensive piss...

 
And this.
 
theiopener
Personally speaking, im sick of seeing new fangled supps come out claiming to be the dogs doodads which are nothing more than some ground up herbs in s capsule/tablet and pimped to high heaven in a bid to make easy money. Lets face it, BB'ers are a great market to get into for supplements. Look at how many scrambled for some so called "natural test boosters" and wasted quite a bit of money on something which isnt proven to work to any real degree.

 
And for good measure, this too.

"Be adequate"
 
WhiteSnake
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 14:25:36 (permalink)
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Peanuts

How many choices do you want?!  The market is saturated with useless supplements that in most cases create expensive piss...

 
Yep! I believe we all have plenty of supplements. Way more than generations past! How much more do we need? We have all we need to repair and grow muscles. Maybe we need to train harder rather than always looking for the next miracle supplement! The bodybuilding industry will always be swamped with the next best latest breakthrough supplement...cos there's so many suckers out there just waiting to hand over their cash!

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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 18:01:18 (permalink)
+2 (1)
Boditronics Ltd
We would love a level playing field  but currently this is not the case .

Tbh that would not leave a level playing field. It would simply mean people will buy products from US websites instead. If everyone hears rave reviews for bulbine / a new prohormone / geranium etc etc.....they're not going to just go "oh well...it's not in the UK, I'll forget about it"....many will simply order from the States.
 
This harms the UK industry and reduces freedom of choice - at the end of the day, we're all adults, and as adults everyone has some responsibility to research the products they use themselves. I wouldn't eat something random my mate just gave me...I'd want to know what it was. I also want the freedom of choice to not be treated like a baby by the EU, and make my own decisions.
 
Ultimately, we should be free to do what we want with our own bodies, and the fact is an intelligent consumer is usually far more up to date on products / ingredients than health authorities are. Tell most Dr's you used geranium and he wouldn't know what it was - ask a forum member what it is and he would.
 
We should be fighting this legislation for several reasons:
- It restricts choice and freedom in the marketplace
- It potentially harms UK industry and jobs
- It treats the consumer like a baby
 
Tbh...for that last reason alone I find the new EU legislation a bit offensive. I'm a smart guy and most supplement buyers are smart guys. We don't need overweight bureaucrats telling us that we shouldn't use trib for a bit of a libido boost...

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Echo Supplements
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 19:15:53 (permalink)
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On this I'm split - on the one hand I'm very much in favour of the legislation saying that the ingredients must be broken down and transparent (no proprietary blends) whereas on the other hand I don't agree with banning individual ingredients (tirbulus, milk thistle etc.) for a variety of reasons.
The Graduate
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 19:20:51 (permalink)
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Sorry Thai but I disagree with you, you are giving the consumers way too much credit for their knowledge. Most will not research their product choice. Most will buy what theirs friends buy or the biggest guy in the gym takes without a 2nd thought as to what it could be. I can think of two large UK based companies who if people researched their products would not be there size.

Additionally most of the supplement buying public would not look to buy their supps from American, maybe some but a very smal amount.

The average muscle talk member is not reflective of most supplement consumers. MT members have a platform to ask Nd learn from valid sources.

Whether you agree with the legislation is not the point, I'm sure most of us dont agree with a lot of policies but we still have to live with them.

Looking at maybe 80% of US imported product (outside of whey/gainers) simply don't comply, so therefore they shouldn't be on sale.

If we take your argument that consumers should be able to do what they want with their bodies, should rec drugs be legalised? After all it's their bodies!

Naturally we both have a slightly bias view point on this area which we differ in.

iaink
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 19:39:39 (permalink)
+4 (2)
most supplement buyers are smart guys.

 
Whatever the merits of different legislation and level of regulation in the supp industry the above quote is simply not true.
CitizenKane
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 19:56:55 (permalink)
+2 (1)
iaink
most supplement buyers are smart guys.


Whatever the merits of different legislation and level of regulation in the supp industry the above quote is simply not true.

 
Agreed.
 
The reps all know this to be the case (they more than anyone because they're in the industry), but of course they can't be seen to be saying it as it would be decrying their very own client base. In reality, the supplement industry is essentially the art of selling impressionable and insecure skinny/fat people crap they don't need. 'Where there's muck there's brass' as they say.
 
*Awaits flame storm from supplement junkies*
 

 

"Be adequate"
 
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 21:12:17 (permalink)
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I will look at this thread and compose a more in-depth response later on, however....I think the cynisicm that surrounds supplements is FAR in excess of what's needed.
 
Most supplement companies are run by people who are very into working out and "walk the walk" in terms of a fitness lifestyle. They didn't get into the industry to con niave youngsters out of their cash, they got into it because they love working in this industry and are likely to be heavily supplement users themselves! At home now I've probably 4 tubs of various protein powders, a handful of pre-workouts, intra-workout sups, multi's and just started on a fat burner. I am not abnormal in terms of supplement use, for someone who works in the supplement industry - we want to create good products, that help people achieve their goals and that we would use ourselves.
 
Of course you have to earn money - but that goes for everyone here. At the end of the day, we all have bills to pay and deserve to be paid fairly for our time and effort. Supplements are sold at a profit - and that profit pays people wages for the hard work many of them put in.
 
If you want to pick an industry that's unscrupulous....you'd be FAR better looking at just about every other industry before you look at supplements, for example:
 
- Clothing - made for pennies by those inpoverty, sold on for 300%+ margins via advertising that says "you're not attractive" and "you won't be accepted" unless you wear this.
- Cosmetics - again, made for pennies, tested on animals using cruel methods and sold for gigantic margins to people who only buy it because they have been taught that without make-up, they're ugly
- Food - Need we even cover this? Vegetarian animals are fed sick, dead animals leading to diseases like BSE. Farmers in rich countries are paid to let food go off, whilst people in poor countries starve. This is before we get to battery hens, veal etc etc etc...
 
.....the list does go on.
 
The supplement industry is on the whole full of very educated consumers - as these forums demonstrate. Yes, some won't know what they're buying and will over pay for "SuperDuper 3000 XXX" or whatever.....but if that's the worst thing that happens, then there are far better places to focus cynisicm.

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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 21:28:08 (permalink)
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ThaiFighter
I will look at this thread and compose a more in-depth response later on, however....I think the cynisicm that surrounds supplements is FAR in excess of what's needed.

I dont, i think more is needed to be honest. Especially with all of the reps that keep popping up who offer no real benefit apart from being an advertising medium.
Most supplement companies are run by people who are very into working out and "walk the walk" in terms of a fitness lifestyle. They didn't get into the industry to con niave youngsters out of their cash, they got into it because they love working in this industry and are likely to be heavily supplement users themselves! At home now I've probably 4 tubs of various protein powders, a handful of pre-workouts, intra-workout sups, multi's and just started on a fat burner. I am not abnormal in terms of supplement use, for someone who works in the supplement industry - we want to create good products, that help people achieve their goals and that we would use ourselves.

Really? I know of quite a few who work in the industry and dont look like they walk the walk. Same with some of the reps i keep seeing with the physiques of people who barely train yet pimp various products and advise on supplements which have no bearing on someones goals because they are misinformed and only taught to push a product. A classic example is various reps pushing Beta-Alanine when it has no use in normal weight training athletes who do not do high rep lactic acid training.
 
Lets be honest here, to help someone achieve their goals you dont need any supplements what so ever, just good advice and experience of how to manilulate diet and training, which most who ask questions on here for advise dont even have down yet. Companies may not go out of their way to con people of of their money, but they certainly don't go out of their way to put the record straight either and give solid advice on how much of a difference said supplements actually make instead of being beyond vague.

 
- Clothing - made for pennies by those inpoverty, sold on for 300%+ margins via advertising that says "you're not attractive" and "you won't be accepted" unless you wear this

Supply & demand, same with any industry. If the consumer isnt happy with this, shop elsewhere. I see it no different than bodybuilders who have self image issues. 
-
Cosmetics - again, made for pennies, tested on animals using cruel methods and sold for gigantic margins to people who only buy it because they have been taught that without make-up, they're ugly

Plenty of brands do not test on animals, some do. To say they all do is inaccurate.
 
 
- Food - Need we even cover this? Vegetarian animals are fed sick, dead animals leading to diseases like BSE. Farmers in rich countries are paid to let food go off, whilst people in poor countries starve. This is before we get to battery hens, veal etc etc etc...


Again, people have a choice to eat what they like. They can freely research how their food is treated and the difference between battery hens & free range hens (which according to EU regs isnt much at all), they aren't given advice by people in the food industry with a vested interest in selling them their product when they walk into a supermarket.
.....the list does go on.

The supplement industry is on the whole full of very educated consumers - as these forums demonstrate. Yes, some won't know what they're buying and will over pay for "SuperDuper 3000 XXX" or whatever.....but if that's the worst thing that happens, then there are far better places to focus cynisicm.

Everyone sells stuff that works but to no appreciable degree. People buy it, including those from the forums. Otherwise you and countless others wouldn't stock them.
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 21:35:18 (permalink)
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CitizenKane
iaink
most supplement buyers are smart guys.


Whatever the merits of different legislation and level of regulation in the supp industry the above quote is simply not true.


Agreed.

The reps all know this to be the case (they more than anyone because they're in the industry), but of course they can't be seen to be saying it as it would be decrying their very own client base. In reality, the supplement industry is essentially the art of selling impressionable and insecure skinny/fat people crap they don't need. 'Where there's muck there's brass' as they say.

*Awaits flame storm from supplement junkies*


That's simply not true. The vast majority of our sales (and sales in the industry in general) are for some kind of protein powder, weight gainer, or other addition to diet.
 
Protein powder / weight gainers etc. I wouldn't classify as a supplement, to be honest it's a food. Made from whey, casein (both from milk - so dairy), oats, and even if they have malto (made from corn)....it's a pretty natural product that makes it far easier for fitness enthusiasts and weight lifters to reach their dietary goals.
 
I would not be able to eat the amount of protein I eat in a typical day without protein powders - I just don't have time to eat that much chicken lol! Protein powders are simple, convenient and are just as much a food as milk or cheese.
 
In terms of supplement users in general.....you can see what they're like by checking out one of the sponsors facebook pages and seeing all those who comment. Some are new, some have worked out for a while, some are competitive athletes. It's a complete mix and everyone helps each other out. I have been training since I was a teenager and even before BBW, used supplements regularly. They don't "make or break" your training, but they help you train harder, get slightly better results....and tbh they're fun. It's cool trying new things. Makes training more interesting. I don't think I'm alone in feeling like that.
 
The Graduate

Sorry Thai but I disagree with you, you are giving the consumers way too much credit for their knowledge. Most will not research their product choice. Most will buy what theirs friends buy or the biggest guy in the gym takes without a 2nd thought as to what it could be. I can think of two large UK based companies who if people researched their products would not be there size.

Additionally most of the supplement buying public would not look to buy their supps from American, maybe some but a very smal amount.

The average muscle talk member is not reflective of most supplement consumers. MT members have a platform to ask Nd learn from valid sources.

Whether you agree with the legislation is not the point, I'm sure most of us dont agree with a lot of policies but we still have to live with them.

Looking at maybe 80% of US imported product (outside of whey/gainers) simply don't comply, so therefore they shouldn't be on sale.

If we take your argument that consumers should be able to do what they want with their bodies, should rec drugs be legalised? After all it's their bodies!

Naturally we both have a slightly bias view point on this area which we differ in.

I think I know who you're talking about in the highlighted section lol!
 
In terms of rec drugs, my personal opinion is that they should be legalised and sold for profit by the NHS to help fund the NHS's annual costs. It'd allow us to reduce taxation on other things to pay the enormous bills the NHS faces, and the NHS would be able to sell for a profit below "street" prices because street prices are generally composed of "risk costs" (i.e. the drug dealer charges a fortune because he knows he risks getting caught).
 
By doing this, users would get safer drugs, and everyone else would get lower taxes and a better NHS. The only people to suffer would be dealers...who would just have to go out and get a job lol.
 
In terms of consumers and how they make their choice....I agree the "big guy" in the gym has a massive impact on what a young lad spends his money on, however the big guy in the gym isn't usually telling him to buy supplements.....he tells him to take dbol / oxy or some other AAS because he's making a packet selling it to him. I think the far greater risk to young people, niave to training, isn't that they might buy some supplements....but that they'll go on a 6 month dbol course because they're friend put on a stone using it. However, even with this being the case, I think we all have some personal responsibility to look after ourselves - it should not be the State's job to nanny you. This will mean some of us make the wrong decisions, but such is life, a person should be expected to make an intelligent decision and we should not expect to have to shelter them. To do so only restricts everyone elses' freedom and that's unfair to those who do weigh their decisions and rationalise them.

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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 21:57:36 (permalink)
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theiopener
I dont, i think more is needed to be honest. Especially with all of the reps that keep popping up who offer no real benefit apart from being an advertising medium.

Muscle Talk costs money to run and takes James / Jason's time and effort to maintain. Consumers get use of it as a "free" forum, and I think most would prefer advertising than to pay a subscription. Advertising in itself is of benefit - no one would know about creatine were it not for Ed Bryd etc etc...back in the '90's promoting the studies. Now it's a commonly accepted supplement that many find useful in their training. We can talk about the extent of advertising, but that's a subjective matter rather than objective - objectively, advertising gives MT members a "free" forum and in many cases allows firms to promote good products for a relatively low cost (which then means they don't have to charge as much in the retail cost).
 

Really? I know of quite a few who work in the industry and dont look like they walk the walk. Same with some of the reps i keep seeing with the physiques of people who barely train yet pimp various products and advise on supplements which have no bearing on someones goals because they are misinformed and only taught to push a product. A classic example is various reps pushing Beta-Alanine when it has no use in normal weight training athletes who do not do high rep lactic acid training.

I train, I've posted training videos up before - here's one from Facebook (click) - as do many of the people who I work with. Not everyone's going to train because you don't need any background in training / fitness to be a fantastic IT support person, or any one of the other more general roles that exist in the industry. In terms of "looking" like you train....we all have different genetics. When I did Muay Thai I used to spar with a guy who looked like an out of shape 40yr old, yet was incredibly tough and a good boxer who'd fought professionally before. You'd never have guessed it by looking at him.

 
Supply & demand, same with any industry. If the consumer isnt happy with this, shop elsewhere. I see it no different than bodybuilders who have self image issues.

Exactly. Supply and demand. What this legislation seeks to do is restrict supply not because that's what consumers want....but because "mummy knows best". This is the EU telling you, that you are not smart enough to make your own decisions.
 
It restricts consumer freedom - thus removing supply and demand.


Everyone sells stuff that works but to no appreciable degree. People buy it, including those from the forums. Otherwise you and countless others wouldn't stock them.

To be honest there are several products we do not stock because we do not think they're any good. When we started we used to have a rule that we'd only add something to site if we thought it was a decent product that one of us would want to use ourselves. We try to keep as close to that as possible and I know from our top 10 list, there isn't a single one that someone in the office hasn't tried.

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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 22:50:42 (permalink)
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i dont see why some people have such a problem with suppliments.  if you dont like them dont use them.
 
as for the comments about board reps, i dont push any products, i answer questions about them, thats it.  and if i dont think a product is right for someone i will say so.  i train harder and look better than most of the board, i have a good knowledge of nutrition, training, suppliments, physiology, anatomy and a range of other areas related to training. i think im more than qualified to answer questions about suppliments thankyou.
 
some people find extra motivation from using suppliments, and it helps them find consistency.  i dont have any problems in that area, but im wise enough to know its not the same for everyone.  if your motivation is high then good for you, but dont look down on people who dont have the same, and who like 'trying' new suppliments in their hobby of going to the gym, and who get pleasure from doing so.
PredatorNutrition
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/23 23:54:21 (permalink)
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Some interesting points I wanted to comment on:
 
1. Glycobol - A good product with loads of positive reviews online. I see no issue with this product either by anyone's definition of a problem, be it based on legal precedent or else its efficacy.
 
2. Overhyped Products - In any industry you will see marketing to communicate the product effectiveness to consumers. I agree there is a minority of overhyped products but it is hardly unusual in commerce and for everyone complaining about the prevalence of this in supplements, it is a much bigger issue in other industries as Thai points out.
 
3. Beta-Alanine - I have personally witnessed its benefits over high repetition sets so I will quibble with the complaint. Legions of users will attest to its positive benefits for training. One thing I notice is improved recovery.
 
4. Too many supplements now compared to the past - It makes consumers' job harder but who would argue against the positive testimonials of supplements released even in the past few mths such as those based on DAA, Glycocarn, Ajinomoto BCAA etc etc.
 
5. Stupid Customers - I think it highly condenscending for those to remark that supplement consumers are stupid as from experience they now more about human physiology, nutrition etc than the average person. Sure you get the odd person followingthe big guy in the gym but as pointed out that usually leads to the use of scheduled drugs not supplements.
 
6. Industry People/Reps - Like Thai observes, most people in this industry came into it from a background of being interested sports, bodybuilding or fitness and this led to their chosen career, not choosing it as a business option. If I had been looking for an easy business then this would definitely not be it. Rather, I am choosing to work in an area I have been passionate about for 15 yrs regularly reading 10+ hrs a week on training, nutrition, etc.
 
I am unsure who these comments were directed at even with regard to reps since most people here do not have pics displayed?
 
In any event, the idea that someone's physique equates to their ability to impart useful info is fallacious as hell. Some of the best coaches in life were/are not neccessarily the best at what they coach - see Mourinho in football (average player), Lyle Mcdonald (not big or ripped but knows more than anyone in the UK put together pretty much). I really have no idea why you feel being in shape matters so long as the person recommending said supplement used it and obtained some benefit which can be attributed to it.
 
7. Naive Customers - I go out of my way to tell people not to take prohormones etc usually but try natural training, diet etc. Other than that specific example, I have personally lectured and written extensively on non-supplement paths to improve performance in sport and body composition.
 
8. Illegal Drugs - For what its worth I would legalise these. This was the opinion of a famous Nobel prize winning economist and I never saw any reason to doubt his wisdom then or since as a rational way to resolve the issues most have with recreational drug abuse.
 
The Graduate
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/24 08:53:54 (permalink)
+2 (1)
Some interesting points raised and its good to see healthy, mature debate, it adds value to the forum.
 
I do think that as brands/resellers we have a duty of care for the consumers. Its fair to say that a majority of the new/novel ingredients being used these days have limited if any clinical data to firstly back up their cliams but 2nd and more importantly prove they are safe for human consumption. I see a new test booster claiming to raise test by 347% but IIRC this study was done in rats. The last time i checked my endocrine system was very different to that of a rat. We only need to look at the rape seed/canola oil issues to see we cannot extrapolate animal data to human data with certain accuracy. We still have enough trouble in the industry proving to many potential consumers that protein and creatine are safe, we need to think outside of the MT box as i have said before, MT is not atypical of the supplement consumer. The average MT member is well informed and can pull from a vast knowledge base.
 
Moving onto the pro-hormones, these are essentially legal steriods, nothing else. No data to prove safety, efficacy and more importantly probably made in some lab with no accrediation to hygiene. We only need to look on the american boards to see some examples of products turning up with ingredients that are completely unknown and not as the label states when they get tested.
 
If i were based in america, it wouldnt be difficult for me to release 'superippedmuscleAbol'! with some fancy chemical name with nothing to prove it does anything and nothing to prove it safe. Couple of flashy adds, some good distribution later and i'm set. This is just wrong IMO.

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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/24 10:31:40 (permalink)
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BulkWhey

Peanuts

How many choices do you want?!  The market is saturated with useless supplements that in most cases create expensive piss...


Yep! I believe we all have plenty of supplements. Way more than generations past! How much more do we need? We have all we need to repair and grow muscles. Maybe we need to train harder rather than always looking for the next miracle supplement! The bodybuilding industry will always be swamped with the next best latest breakthrough supplement...cos there's so many suckers out there just waiting to hand over their cash!

How many choices do we want  is a statement that could be applied to any product whether it is a car . mobile phone even a loaf of bread .In todays world its all about consumer choices and the supplement business should be no different .The unfortunate thing is , that the variety of products come from the USA and therefore gives the consumer more choice., than the UK market
I think most of us will have one or two supplements that have been made in the US.in the cupboard
Thats unfortunate because whether its EU regulations or simply manufacturers  playing safe we are not supporting UK Business as the variety of supplements is just not there.
 
Whats makes matters worse and in my book a missed opportunity , consumers from the EU and US are approaching UK BASED supplement providers to buy US products .We really ought to be providing an alternative which is British.
I note quite recently that BB.com -an American based company-are now advertising in Mens Fitness--
Are UK manufacturers being proactive and advertising in the US equivalent?
Getting a good physique is a bug , once you have it , its difficult to get rid of
 supplements are bought in the hope that they can play some part in acheiving that.and if it works out to be expensive piss , then thats life but its taught us a lesson.
 
post edited by corsaking - 2011/03/24 10:33:00
fitfreak36
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/24 11:15:17 (permalink)
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The Graduate

Very simple, legislation!

It neigh on impossible to bring a new ingredient to the euro/uk Market.

As an example due to legislation we now have to stop manufacturing milk thistle, tribulus, etc as of 30th April!
 
 
Why Milk Thistle?
corsaking
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/24 11:53:41 (permalink)
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The Graduate

Some interesting points raised and its good to see healthy, mature debate, it adds value to the forum.

I do think that as brands/resellers we have a duty of care for the consumers. Its fair to say that a majority of the new/novel ingredients being used these days have limited if any clinical data to firstly back up their cliams but 2nd and more importantly prove they are safe for human consumption. I see a new test booster claiming to raise test by 347% but IIRC this study was done in rats. The last time i checked my endocrine system was very different to that of a rat. We only need to look at the rape seed/canola oil issues to see we cannot extrapolate animal data to human data with certain accuracy. We still have enough trouble in the industry proving to many potential consumers that protein and creatine are safe, we need to think outside of the MT box as i have said before, MT is not atypical of the supplement consumer. The average MT member is well informed and can pull from a vast knowledge base.

Moving onto the pro-hormones, these are essentially legal steriods, nothing else. No data to prove safety, efficacy and more importantly probably made in some lab with no accrediation to hygiene. We only need to look on the american boards to see some examples of products turning up with ingredients that are completely unknown and not as the label states when they get tested.

If i were based in america, it wouldnt be difficult for me to release 'superippedmuscleAbol'! with some fancy chemical name with nothing to prove it does anything and nothing to prove it safe. Couple of flashy adds, some good distribution later and i'm set. This is just wrong IMO.

Can you not lobby parliament or your MP ? do you belong to an organisation which collectively you can lobby parliament and put your case.
i get an impression from reading some of these posts that its a situation thats acceptable, although you dont agree with..
There have been things in the past where EU legislation has been overturned -remember the fuss over lbs and ounces.
if it affects business and sales , that cannot be good for you as a company and must be restrictive to some degree .Surely thats a good a point as any to make a case?
The Graduate
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Re:LACK OF INVESTMENT IN NEW PRODUCTS BY UK COMPANIES 2011/03/24 12:44:49 (permalink)
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corsaking

The Graduate

Some interesting points raised and its good to see healthy, mature debate, it adds value to the forum.

I do think that as brands/resellers we have a duty of care for the consumers. Its fair to say that a majority of the new/novel ingredients being used these days have limited if any clinical data to firstly back up their cliams but 2nd and more importantly prove they are safe for human consumption. I see a new test booster claiming to raise test by 347% but IIRC this study was done in rats. The last time i checked my endocrine system was very different to that of a rat. We only need to look at the rape seed/canola oil issues to see we cannot extrapolate animal data to human data with certain accuracy. We still have enough trouble in the industry proving to many potential consumers that protein and creatine are safe, we need to think outside of the MT box as i have said before, MT is not atypical of the supplement consumer. The average MT member is well informed and can pull from a vast knowledge base.

Moving onto the pro-hormones, these are essentially legal steriods, nothing else. No data to prove safety, efficacy and more importantly probably made in some lab with no accrediation to hygiene. We only need to look on the american boards to see some examples of products turning up with ingredients that are completely unknown and not as the label states when they get tested.

If i were based in america, it wouldnt be difficult for me to release 'superippedmuscleAbol'! with some fancy chemical name with nothing to prove it does anything and nothing to prove it safe. Couple of flashy adds, some good distribution later and i'm set. This is just wrong IMO.

Can you not lobby parliament or your MP ? do you belong to an organisation which collectively you can lobby parliament and put your case.
i get an impression from reading some of these posts that its a situation thats acceptable, although you dont agree with..
There have been things in the past where EU legislation has been overturned -remember the fuss over lbs and ounces.
if it affects business and sales , that cannot be good for you as a company and must be restrictive to some degree .Surely thats a good a point as any to make a case?


I think you are puttng two posts together.
 
Do i think proven safe herbal products such as milk thistle should have be restricted, definately not. There are bodies that have lobbied from the start but this is an EU directive and i, reading between the lines, would assume that those lobbying for the act to be pass, have far deeper pockets than we as a collective industry do.
 
Do i think that there should be greater legislation regarding products that have no proven safety profile, have been invented in a lab and end up on our market with no control over their distribution, yes. I'm sure if GSK brought a new product to market to help diabetes with no clinical data then i'm sure people who make a point over this.

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