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LONG-steady cardio

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sillynarbie
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2005/08/02 08:33:21 (permalink)
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LONG-steady cardio

I'm interested in opinions on long steady cardio sessions, when I mean long, I mean 2-4 hours, but at a low heart-rate, typical being an average of say 130-140bpm over the whole duration. Now, I know this will burn a lot of fat, which is the whole idea, but it might how detrimental will it be to saving muscle? Is there anything I can do to maximise fat loss and minimise muscle gain in such long sessions?

This is for a cut btw.
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    kinglean
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/02 09:09:05 (permalink)
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    Whats your fueling like before hand?
    What time of day are you doing it?
    Any other training that day (ie weights)?
    Total calorie intake would be helpful as well.
    #2
    sillynarbie
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/02 09:14:57 (permalink)
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    Would be towards the end of the day after 3-4 meals. Only other training would be 15 minutes HIIT in the morning, total calorie intake just less than 2000 I think, not entirely sure(not counting cals)
    #3
    symzie
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/02 12:00:28 (permalink)
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    Bad idea. After a while you'll be breaking down body tissue to fuel yourself, no matter what you've eaten beforehand. Once in a while wouldn't make much difference but if it became routine, bye bye muscles, hello marathan runner lookalike
    #4
    Airborne Warrior
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/02 13:19:31 (permalink)
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    I agree with symzie. Whatever you ate before cardio it will be all burnt for fuel after an hour to an hour and half of training, obviously depending on the intensity. After this you'll be cannabalising yourself which isn't a good idea for keeping gains!
    #5
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/02 14:46:04 (permalink)
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    awful IMO

    tried and tested

    you would have to fuel with a carb source to make it through that amount of time also

    2000 cals wouldnt last the duration
    #6
    sillynarbie
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 01:06:26 (permalink)
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    Isn't that the whole point though...so that you run out of energy in the form of glycogen and then your body turns to stored fat?
    #7
    kinglean
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 07:42:01 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: sillynarbie

    Isn't that the whole point though...so that you run out of energy in the form of glycogen and then your body turns to stored fat?


    If your going to partake in such a program then intensity is the key.
    You are correct about the body looking to alternatives for fuel, but you want that alternative to be fat. At this time length drop the heart rate down to 110 bpm if your training for 2 hour duration. Make sure there are PLENTY of good carbs and loads of circulating aminos in your system so your body dont start cannibalising muscle, possibly even take some BCAA pills or whey in water with you to neck half way round.

    Personally if i were you i would wake up and then do 1 hour cardio at 120 BPM, this way making the most of the low insulin / glycogen, on BCAAs, glutamine or whey in water as fuel. Much safer on the mass and probably comparable on the fat loss front when compared to your method.

    #8
    sillynarbie
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 07:56:47 (permalink)
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    Well, I'm already doing HIIT on waking after whey, and I've been doing an extra cardio session in the evening, except on weights days, where I just do HIIT in the morning and weights in the evening.

    The cardio session in the evening has just been a 30 minute run or cycle though, just to get net calories down, but I'm just thinking of sticking a long bike session in if it will increase fat loss without jeapordising muscle mass too greatly, but only if thats the case. I don't fancy eating loads to make sure I don't go into using muscle as fuel to be honest, I was just wondering if doing low intensity cardio for long periods would be good for burning fat. I don't mind doing the whole ride at 110bpm, I just don't fancy eating loads of carbs and downing protein shakes mid-ride to stop muscle fuelling the effort.
    #9
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 10:19:20 (permalink)
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    the body will not burn fat alone after 2-3 hours if not fuelled

    it will go for muscle

    bottom line
    #10
    sillynarbie
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 10:52:27 (permalink)
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    Fair enough, there goes that idea then, what about if I shorten it to say 1 hour? What sort of heart-rate should I be going for? This is for maximal fat loss by the way, as in calories burned directly from fat, I'm not interested in trying to create big calorie deficits or anything, as I've already got that covered pretty much.
    #11
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 12:21:12 (permalink)
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    for fat loss

    up to 45 minutes IMO on empty

    anything else i have found both from experience and data turns into a sporting effort and requires planning
    #12
    pulsar
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 13:13:13 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    for fat loss

    up to 45 minutes IMO on empty

    anything else i have found both from experience and data turns into a sporting effort and requires planning


    So I guess my 40mins + warm up and warm down on 1 serving of Pro-peptide is ok for fat loss and muscle gain then ? average BPM is 130-140 ... ?

    *** GO INTENSE OR GO HOME !!! ***
    #13
    pulsar
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 13:14:05 (permalink)
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    Sorry meant muscle retention not gain ... Doh

    *** GO INTENSE OR GO HOME !!! ***
    #14
    sillynarbie
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 13:32:08 (permalink)
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    What sort of heart-rates is that for toxic? And how many times a week would you recommend that?

    #15
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 14:18:33 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: sillynarbie

    What sort of heart-rates is that for toxic? And how many times a week would you recommend that?




    it was an example
    i try not to prescribe a one size fits all plan as different peole react differently and also diet will play a large role

    HR?

    origin test will help on that one and for those that dont, again it will be determined by diet, length of cardio, time of day, goals and so on

    2-4 hours on a road bike is simply riding the road to catabolism

    it didnt take a week to put on the extra fat, it aint gonna take a week to get it off, in an effectove manner that is
    #16
    sillynarbie
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/03 15:45:47 (permalink)
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    What sort of figures does Origin come up with though? I find it hard to imagine there would be many people getting over 150bpm for their maximum fat burn heart-rate? There must be a "most common" range?
    #17
    Taz
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/04 11:20:47 (permalink)
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    I am a little concerned with a few comments in this thread as for the past year and a half I have been training for about 4 hours at kick-boxing on a sunday and from what you guys are saying this is actually damaging me. Im not too sure if I could neck a whey shake half way through but I will try if I was certain it will benifit me. Would it be ok having a whey shake straight after the session??? Plus I am triing to lose a little fat at the min anyway so do not wana be doing too much that will make me gain weight.

    Cheers
    #18
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/04 11:54:37 (permalink)
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    4 hours kickin boxing is not continous though which will help

    use a carb based drink to fuel it rather than protein
    #19
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: LONG-steady cardio 2005/08/04 11:56:01 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: sillynarbie

    What sort of figures does Origin come up with though? I find it hard to imagine there would be many people getting over 150bpm for their maximum fat burn heart-rate? There must be a "most common" range?


    everybody is different

    for me, the 50% mark where carbs and fat are being burned at the same rate was appx 120 beats a minute but again everybody is different, the beauty of the origin

    this 120bpm was only 6-7 minutes into the test though, factors will change 3-4 hours into it
    #20
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