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Lean Bulking and Cardio?

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Apollo
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2009/07/28 11:50:10 (permalink)
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Lean Bulking and Cardio?

 
If I do 20 mins cardio after weights sessions and a couple of 60 min cardio days while bulking will I lose bodyfat and create new muscle? Im basing my diet on James's "Cutting Vs Bulking" article.


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    Jay1b
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 12:26:59 (permalink)
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    I wouldn't of thought so.... Or not to any great extent at least... 
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    Apollo
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 13:35:35 (permalink)
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    No more opinions?

    Or maybe where I can find more detailed info based on James' article "Cutting Vs Bulking, losing fat whilst building quality muscle"?


    Tee Total 2008 Member #6
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    Rocky
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 18:37:34 (permalink)
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    I believe it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

     I don't know whether anyone could pinpoint it to specific cardio session lengths as that would depend on how many calories you're consuming.

     I think it may have more to do with carb manipulation.I'm no expert though....But it seems to have worked for me in the past.
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    Gymguy
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 20:10:22 (permalink)
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    Rocky

    I believe it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

    I don't know whether anyone could pinpoint it to specific cardio session lengths as that would depend on how many calories you're consuming.

    I think it may have more to do with carb manipulation.I'm no expert though....But it seems to have worked for me in the past.


    I too think that you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, here is why:

    To gain muscle you need to eat MORE than your BMR (maintenance level)

    To lose fat you need to eat LESS than your BMR...

    You could keep as much muscle maybe when losing fat but that is hard to do. Read more about this in Lyle McDonalds book Ultimate Diet 2.0...  or in his blog at www.bodyrecomposition.com. He is a great guy who knows a LOT about about nutrition!
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    Rocky
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 21:08:33 (permalink)
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    I can only talk from personal experience.

     I am natural...I have reduced bodyfat whilst adding additional size.

     I didn't lose as much as i would've done if purely cutting,and didn't gain as much as if i were purely bulking.....

     Eating more or less than your BMR refers to calories....A calorie is a unit of energy....But it's what those calories provide that is more important.

     If a guy consumes 3,000 calories per day of junk food(trans fats and sugar) and then converts to 3,000 per day of protein......Would his body not change at all because he's still consuming 3,000 calories?

     Protein would help build/repair muscle tissue,he would be calling on his fat stores for energy(buring fat).

     His body would change even though he's eating the same amount of calories.

     
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    Gymguy
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 21:31:09 (permalink)
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    Rocky

    I can only talk from personal experience.

    I am natural...I have reduced bodyfat whilst adding additional size.

    I didn't lose as much as i would've done if purely cutting,and didn't gain as much as if i were purely bulking.....

    Eating more or less than your BMR refers to calories....A calorie is a unit of energy....But it's what those calories provide that is more important.

    If a guy consumes 3,000 calories per day of junk food(trans fats and sugar) and then converts to 3,000 per day of protein......Would his body not change at all because he's still consuming 3,000 calories?

    Protein would help build/repair muscle tissue,he would be calling on his fat stores for energy(buring fat).

    His body would change even though he's eating the same amount of calories.




    Excess protein would be stored as fat!

    There is one optical thing with muscles. They make you look bigger. The person who weighs 80 kilos and have  a lot of muscle will look bigger than a guy who weighs 80 but is not muscular.  To illustrate, here is a great article about bulking which has pictures to prove what I said, if you don't want to read just scroll down and look at the pics;
    http://www.tmuscle.com/.../the_truth_about_bulking

    But when you are new to bodybuilding (first month of training) you CAN actually gain muscle and lose fat at the same time (newbie gains), although this doesn't last!
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    Rocky
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 22:11:11 (permalink)
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     As another example,imagine you have 3 clones all eating 3,000 calories....One only fat,one only carbs,one only protein.

     You're saying they would all look identical because they're consuming the same amount of calories?

     There are people who say it can't be done..Some say it can.


    As i said,i can only talk from personal experience.

     Chest went up half and inch,upper arms went up quater of an inch,waist dropped 1 inch...

     This was after 8 years of training..

     
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    Gymguy
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/28 22:27:23 (permalink)
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    Rocky

     As another example,imagine you have 3 clones all eating 3,000 calories....One only fat,one only carbs,one only protein.

    You're saying they would all look identical because they're consuming the same amount of calories?

    There are people who say it can't be done..Some say it can.


    As i said,i can only talk from personal experience.

    Chest went up half and inch,upper arms went up quater of an inch,waist dropped 1 inch...

    This was after 8 years of training..




    First off this example you give is totally impractical and can not be achieved in real life, if it was done, the guys would die or have serious problems with health. Now I don't know your history and I can only congradulate you! But generally, when body is in gaining mode, you gain muscle and fat and when body is in losing mode you lose fat and muscle...
    Some try ketogenic diets and say it works.. I don't know.. I'm skeptical. Still, I don't know everything so I wont claim to be an expert! Lyle McDonald is and he basically told what I did in his Ultimate Diet 2.0 book.  Give it a read, great book!

    Cheers
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    Rocky
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/29 07:00:37 (permalink)
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    The examples i gave are impractical.......But doesn't that prove my point?-That a calorie is more than just a number?...It's the nutritional value you get from food that is more important,not the numbers per day you consume.

     If body shape manipulation was only dependant on the number of caloires consumed,there are a lot of people on this forum and around the world wasting their time with low carb diets to lose fat/get into contest condition.

     As i said in one of my above posts-I would've gained a lot more if i'd concentrated on bulking only,i would've lost a lot more if concentrating on cutting only.

     Apollo asked if he thought it could be done...My personal experience is yes.
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    Hazel
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/29 10:06:51 (permalink)
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    Apollo

     
    If I do 20 mins cardio after weights sessions and a couple of 60 min cardio days while bulking will I lose bodyfat and create new muscle? Im basing my diet on James's "Cutting Vs Bulking" article.


    It is possible to lean bulk.  If you are using the meal plans from James' article remember they are a guide.  The amount of cardio you do is up to you, some people need to do more than others, so if you feel you are putting on fat, then increase each cardio session.  Varying it with HIIT will help too.
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    Gymguy
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/29 12:27:40 (permalink)
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    Rocky

    The examples i gave are impractical.......But doesn't that prove my point?-That a calorie is more than just a number?...It's the nutritional value you get from food that is more important,not the numbers per day you consume.

    If body shape manipulation was only dependant on the number of caloires consumed,there are a lot of people on this forum and around the world wasting their time with low carb diets to lose fat/get into contest condition.

    As i said in one of my above posts-I would've gained a lot more if i'd concentrated on bulking only,i would've lost a lot more if concentrating on cutting only.

    Apollo asked if he thought it could be done...My personal experience is yes.


    The middle ground is true: The amount of cals matter and the type of cals matter. You wont gain if you seriously undereat or you will gain fat if you seriously overeat (whether on carbs or proteins or fats)..
    Impractical stuff can't prove points.

    If you take low-carb diet and change carbs with proteins you can still gain fat since proteins can be stored as fat just as carbs do. Low-carb diet works but is not be-all, end-all diet probably..

    Give this a read:
    http://fitnessblackbook...low-fat-diet-it-depends/

    Compares low-fat and low-carb diets.
    #12
    Apollo
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    Re:Lean Bulking and Cardio? 2009/07/29 12:32:39 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the advice.

    Does anyone have any links or carb cycling advice?


    Tee Total 2008 Member #6
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