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AnsweredMy first cycle

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peanut17
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2015/02/15 14:11:15 (permalink)
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My first cycle

Hi guys
A little about me first, I am 175cm just over 79kg and I have been training for over 6 years now and am 27years old. I have competed in a few small powerlifting comps in the past year. I love lifting and train very hard. My diet is good with macros in check. If I had any issue with my diet it is that I could eat more. When I compete I usually try and drop to around 75kg to be in that weight class.
I plan to do a steroid cycle in the next few months. I have been against steroids for so long and see a lot of people in the gym, come in blow up take a few pics and never see them again. I understand that steroids work, I have seen beginners get big and strong in short periods of time.
The reason I am looking to do this is due to injury. I have torn my ACL twice and my cartilige 3 times. I have had the ACL repaired once 7 years ago using a graft (my hamstring) but tore it again 18months ago. I had surgery in January 2014 to have both repaired but the surgeon didn't repair the ACL and just did the cartilige (I'll not get into that). So now I have hurt my knee again and I will have to take a few weeks off training. I am still debating if I should get the surgery again then do the cycle or do the cycle build the muscles around my knee up as much as possible and if that doesn't work I will get the surgery. The problem with the surgery is that I will lose my other hamstring unless I get a donor ACL (from a dead donor) which is not financially possible.
The cycle I would be looking to do would be a test base with MAYBE Dianabol or Winstrol. I would run the test for 8-10 weeks and the Dianabol and/or Winstrol for the first 6. I would not go over 400mg per week on test. Maybe go with test enanthate or test cypionate as they are long estered compounds with a longer half life which would mean less injections. My other option would be sustonon for 8 weeks at 400mg split mon and thur. I do worry about how I would react to a cycle in terms of gyno and my hpta. I will have an AI and nolva on hand also. I have researched a lot over the past year or 2 and know that more is definitely not better when it comes to these compounds. I will run nolva as pct.
Is there anything I am missing guys or any advice that you's can give me? Anything will be hugely appreciated.
#1
greconate
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/16 01:01:02 (permalink)
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I like the idea to hold off a major surgery like that and trying this rout. my opinion though is being your first go at it you should do a test prop kick start at 100mg eod (will only need 1x 10ml) w/ cyp or eth at 400mg like you said and results will blow your mind as long as you lift like a savage. Also hcg would be a good idea  and some gh peptides to max those results  (both products are fairly inexpensive) as far as frequent injections are concerned I would say don't worry about it... it's fun ;)
 
#2
peanut17
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/16 09:20:26 (permalink)
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Hi mate
 
All sounds pretty good but some compounds I'm not familiar with. I was thinking of test prop over test E and this is something I will consider over the next few weeks. 
 
The hold off on surgery is the only option at the minute as I don't want to lose my other hamstring. I think this would lead to weakening of my other joint and longer time to recover. 
 
Thanks for the reply pal and any advice is really appreciated
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greconate
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/17 05:11:17 (permalink)
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So to be more specific on the test, Im proposing you should do a 10 week cycle that two types of are run starting day one. get a bottle of prop ( usually dosed@ 100mg/ml) use it every other day for your first 20 days. get 2 bottles of test cyp or eth @ 200mg/ml or 1 @400mg/ml and use those twice a week at 200mg. I really feel you can minimize shutdown by using 250 iu's of HCG twice weekly (its a sub-q shot w an insulin sized pin) your boys will prob increase in size while on cycle imoe. eat like a carnivorous horse ( if you use those peptides: ghrp-2, ghrp-6, cjc-1295 , this won't be an issue at all) lift smart for your knee's sake, but extremely hard. These things done and you'll have a very memorable positive experience my man.
 
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Uriel
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/17 10:20:12 (permalink)
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I'm lost here, what was the reason you wanted to try steroids again? You expect them to make your injury better?
 
You'll be disappointed.
 
Also test is test and the only difference between prop or E/C is more holes in you and less money in your wallet.
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Dumbat
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/17 11:22:14 (permalink)
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Uriel
I'm lost here, what was the reason you wanted to try steroids again? You expect them to make your injury better?
 
You'll be disappointed.
 
Also test is test and the only difference between prop or E/C is more holes in you and less money in your wallet.


I concur 
 

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peanut17
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/17 19:08:18 (permalink)
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Uriel
I'm lost here, what was the reason you wanted to try steroids again? You expect them to make your injury better?
 
You'll be disappointed.
 
Also test is test and the only difference between prop or E/C is more holes in you and less money in your wallet.




I completely agree on the test prop or E/C and made my decision to go for prop. I have done enough research to know what will and won't work and for a first cycle test prop is easily enough.
 
To be honest, like most others that have been training for years in a gym steroids appeal to me like they do most others. I toyed with the idea for a while and think I made my mind up to try them. I do powerlifting comps but I am one of the only natural lifters in most comps but this will not likely be a career more a hobby that I can vastly improve on. 
 
I trained without needing surgery and can't see why strengthening the quads, hamstrings and flexors wouldn't help. Maybe I am being naive here and maybe that's the reason I came to this forum to get some hard truths. 
 
WHY NOW? well I did hurt my knee and it will set me back quite a bit. The surgery will involve removing my other hamstring which then leaves both legs weaker. For me this is not an option as I have had 2 major surgeries on it before with it not really helping.
 
I honestly appreciate the feedback and will take all on board
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Uriel
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/17 21:19:50 (permalink)☼ Best Answerby peanut17 2015/02/17 22:31:56
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I don't think you understood my point about prop. Test prop is a gimmick drug, it won't do anything differently from other forms of test (it peaks faster than enanthate for instance but that's nothing that can't be evened out by frontloading test E with a higher dose), but you'll need to inject it more often, and it'll end up being more expensive because a test prop vial holds between 1/2 and 1/3 of the drug as a test E vial, but doesn't actually cost much less. You can do a test cycle with 1-2 vials of test E, with prop you'll need more like 4-6 vials.
 
Strengthening muscles is a good thing if done right. Just using steroids may not actually help because if you have an underlying imbalance due to your training program making you prone to injury steroids will only amplify it by making the muscles you're stimulating most grow even faster. Also if you keep increasing the weights as people normally do, steroids will let you do it much faster leading to more stress on your joints. There's also the fact that some steroids have a direct negative impact on the well being of your joints, like winstrol. If your knee hurts now you will probably need crutches while on winstrol.
 
If you want to use steroids to improve your gains that's fine and they work very well for that, but don't think of steroids as something that will help your injury at all. At best they can be used without making it worse if you take the necessary precautions.
 
I'm curious how they fix your ACL using your hamstring. From what I understand they use part of the tendon but leave the muscle there, and they only use one of the hamstring muscles so it shouldn't make such a big difference.
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peanut17
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/17 22:44:36 (permalink)
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Uriel
I don't think you understood my point about prop. Test prop is a gimmick drug, it won't do anything differently from other forms of test (it peaks faster than enanthate for instance but that's nothing that can't be evened out by frontloading test E with a higher dose), but you'll need to inject it more often, and it'll end up being more expensive because a test prop vial holds between 1/2 and 1/3 of the drug as a test E vial, but doesn't actually cost much less. You can do a test cycle with 1-2 vials of test E, with prop you'll need more like 4-6 vials.
 
Strengthening muscles is a good thing if done right. Just using steroids may not actually help because if you have an underlying imbalance due to your training program making you prone to injury steroids will only amplify it by making the muscles you're stimulating most grow even faster. Also if you keep increasing the weights as people normally do, steroids will let you do it much faster leading to more stress on your joints. There's also the fact that some steroids have a direct negative impact on the well being of your joints, like winstrol. If your knee hurts now you will probably need crutches while on winstrol.
 
If you want to use steroids to improve your gains that's fine and they work very well for that, but don't think of steroids as something that will help your injury at all. At best they can be used without making it worse if you take the necessary precautions.
 
I'm curious how they fix your ACL using your hamstring. From what I understand they use part of the tendon but leave the muscle there, and they only use one of the hamstring muscles so it shouldn't make such a big difference.


Hi mate
 
Any precaution that can be taken will be taken. I understand that this is not some kind of miracle. There is a weakness there as the graft used was my hamstring. I want to try this as I don't see many other options. My knee has been through 2 major surgeries already and one doc told me that another will lead to quicker deterioration.
 
I meant to say that I would go with the test E and not prop. For me it is about the long term. If I have to get the surgery it will not be for another 18-24 months. This is due to a wedding and starting a new job 6 months ago. I want to give this a go and feel I have nothing to lose. I am not stupid in the fact that I know that a heavier weight will put more strain on the joint and using steroids will make the weights feel lighter. I do not intend to use any oral and especially not any other that will dry and hamper the joint. Winstrol is not an option
 
As for the surgery... In recent years more and more people that had the patella tendon used for surgery have had some crippling cases of tendonitis I don't believe this is coincidence. The first time I had surgery I was not even advised of the patella option which frustrates me now as I was only 18 at the time and could have made a better recovery. 
 
Thanks for the advice again
post edited by peanut17 - 2015/02/17 22:46:50
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northumbriman
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/17 23:24:55 (permalink)
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Just read this thread and I can see your attraction to using steroids rather than surgery. Before you take the plunge have you been to see a doctor and asked for a referal to a specialist? Whilst steroids will obviously help with strength it is the muscle not the tendon that is strengthened. Many steroid users damage tendons purely because muscle strength has surpassed tendon strength. Also bear in mind that steroid use masks damage. I know several users who come off cycle and are crippled with nagging injuries that they don't notice while on. I would check there are no other options available to get a proper repair done before using steroids then consider a cycle when you are building back up maybe.
 
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peanut17
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/18 08:51:26 (permalink)
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northumbriman
Just read this thread and I can see your attraction to using steroids rather than surgery. Before you take the plunge have you been to see a doctor and asked for a referal to a specialist? Whilst steroids will obviously help with strength it is the muscle not the tendon that is strengthened. Many steroid users damage tendons purely because muscle strength has surpassed tendon strength. Also bear in mind that steroid use masks damage. I know several users who come off cycle and are crippled with nagging injuries that they don't notice while on. I would check there are no other options available to get a proper repair done before using steroids then consider a cycle when you are building back up maybe.
 


Hi mate
 
I have been referred onto a different orthapedic specialist as the guy that done my first 2 was a joke and did them wrong. I had surgery last January, before the surgery he said my acl was definitely loose/torn and would definitely need surgery he did the surgery repaired the cartilige and told me ACL was intact. 4 months later I saw one of the specialists who told me it was loose and would need surgery (imagine my disgust when it was supposed to be repaired 4 months previous). He then told me that another op would pull the joint closer and lead to deterioration a lot quicker (which I think is complete bullsh*t). 
 
Do I trust the surgeons now... Definitely not and can you blame me. This is not a sympathy play this is what I have to deal with and I have had to fight and fight to get to a stage were I can even compete without a hamstring and a loose ACL. I have had the loose ACL for over 20 months now and have got strong enough to not feel the problem. My knee slipped on Saturday past and has swollen pretty bad which today is the first day it has felt ok-ish again. 
 
The reason I considered a cycle was born a little out of rage and the idea that having a stronger muscle will stabilise the knee. Maybe I am wrong and maybe I will have to get surgery in the future but this is not possible within the next 18 months as I travel to work and have my wedding next year. I will have to take a lot of time of work unpaid which I am sure you understand is not an option these days. 
 
I am not looking for someone to tell me that I am right and this is the correct idea. I need the right advice and will listen and not just go start a cycle of the back of an idea that this will work if it won't. This is a huge part of my life and I already had to retire from football, tennis and boxing at the age of 25 due to these injuries.
 
Cheers
post edited by peanut17 - 2015/02/18 08:54:26
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Dumbat
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/18 11:57:03 (permalink)
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The draw back with AAS use is that muscle tissue will trophy at a faster rate than tendon and connective tissue will.
 
IMO using any AAS is likely to cause further issues rather than solving any.
A better option would be GHRP`S and GHRH Peptides as they improve healing and trophy of muscle tissue, tendons and connective tissue. 
 

Ignorance: Reassuringly Expensive.






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greconate
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/18 12:30:10 (permalink)
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I would firmly suggest making sure you do all the little rehab lifts(i'm sure you know what i'm talkin about from your prior scopes) for your knee religiously to make those little stabilizer muscles hyper mature, then hopefully you have or can get one of those mechanical hinged braces for your powerlifting exercises.  If you are that serious about powerlifting that is great!, and I say shoot for the top. but sometime in the future you most likely will have to get it fully done. But until then I feel if training smart you can make it a number of years and get your credentials up and make a name for yourself in the sport, then do it after a major competition when you have some down time after. The best of luck to you peanut. btw what are your personal bests in the 3 lifts?
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peanut17
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/18 15:41:05 (permalink)
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greconate
I would firmly suggest making sure you do all the little rehab lifts(i'm sure you know what i'm talkin about from your prior scopes) for your knee religiously to make those little stabilizer muscles hyper mature, then hopefully you have or can get one of those mechanical hinged braces for your powerlifting exercises.  If you are that serious about powerlifting that is great!, and I say shoot for the top. but sometime in the future you most likely will have to get it fully done. But until then I feel if training smart you can make it a number of years and get your credentials up and make a name for yourself in the sport, then do it after a major competition when you have some down time after. The best of luck to you peanut. btw what are your personal bests in the 3 lifts?




Hi mate
 
Yea i see where you are coming from and the hinged brace has been something I have been looking at just not sure if they are as good as the sellers say. Will probably get one soon. Yea I know what you mean about the small exercises they are tedious but they do work. 
 
I do want to try a cycle of something but with all the advice given it seems a little silly to do this now. 
 
My 3 lift Dead - My PB not at a comp and I weighed a little more was 240kg I was at 80kg then
Squat I did 210kg (again not in a comp sady but was well over 75kg)
Bench was 135kg (slowly building this towards 150 now but I am disappointed with my bench)
 
Not a great overall figure of 585 but I am happy enough just hope this won't set me back too far. I don't see myself competing at a higher level and find this more of a hobby. Time is not on my side in terms of hours in a day. 
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peanut17
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/21 11:30:13 (permalink)
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Hi guys
 
I'm thinking of a cycle with no orals...
 
Just want your opinion. Knee won't go through surgery for at least 2 years if at all.
Do a test E cycle with HCG and GH peptides 10-12 weeks??
 
I have been training for over 9 months with no problem with the knee and a week ago the joint opened slightly and it swole pretty bad. Feels ok again but know there is an underlaying issue there. Had 2 operations in the past and they were very unsuccessful. Long story but the same surgeon done both surgeries and ended up worse off both times. I have now been referred onto another surgeon in another city but cannot afford to take time off work financially and I have my own wedding next year.
 
There is 3 options I have... I use my other hamstring from my good knee in the surgery and lift the rest of my life with no hamstring in either leg.. Or I use the patella tendon and it takes a year to recover and weakens the bad knee even more. 3rd option and one I would jump at is, I speak to the surgeon and ask for a donor acl to use in the surgery (this is highly highly unlikely). I honestly have lost all confidence in surgeons. One specialist told me that if I have surgery this will pull the joint closer together and will end up in quicker deterioration (arthritis). To be honest I think this is b*ull****.
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greconate
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Re: My first cycle 2015/02/22 00:53:49 (permalink)
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For a first go at "the dark side"  choosing those 3 meds is top-notch. And remember you can run those ghrp's as long as you want and they will really help you keep those strength gains you achieve while "on" as well as the healing properties for that knee.
 
post edited by greconate - 2015/02/22 00:56:01
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