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New article - Westide Barbell Training

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James
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2004/01/03 18:24:56 (permalink)

New article - Westide Barbell Training

A new article has been added to the MuscleTalk articles section:

Westside Barbell Training by Ozzy. You can access it through the 'Articles' tab at the top of the site or directly[url='http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-westside-barbell.asp']here[/url]

Enjoy and please ask any questions in this thread
#1

11 Replies Related Threads

    Big-AL
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/03 19:22:35 (permalink)
    Thanks to ozzy for taking the time to write that. I for one found it interesting.

    AL
    #2
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/03 19:38:57 (permalink)
    Printed it for further reference...GREATLY APPRECIATED MAN!!! Could you guys who do westside please watch over my journal to make sure I am doing it correctly? http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64475 Thanks Again.
    #3
    Entity83
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/03 21:28:27 (permalink)
    I switched from bodybuilding to powerlifting last summer and have Ive been training westside for about 12 weeks, one full training cycle which I will be done with tommorow. And let me tell you, the strength gains are insane!!! I put on almost 100lbs on my bench (from 365 to 455), 90 on my squat (from 315 to 405), and...are you ready for this...250lbs on my deadlift (from 335 to 585). I also put on about 25lbs (200 to +/-225) on my frame with little fat gain (12% to 14%), and 2 inches on my arms at 19" a personal best. There are some downsides though, my joints are thrashed and are always sore and I have a pinched nerve in my back that send pain shooting down my leg. Which is why im gonna take it a bit easier next cycle which I posted here http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=67563 for all to comment on. I also plan on doing some random strongman training like pushing/pulling my GMC Envoy, sled dragging and grip training to improve my overall fitness level. If proceeded with caution I think westside training could have numerous benefits for bodybuilders looking to make gains in size and strength, especially for off season training.

    If anyone would like more in depth information on westside methods you can check out the following articles written by David Tate.

    The Periodization Bible pts 1 & 2: part 1 covers standard or western periodization, pt2 covers conjugated periodization or the westside method.
    1)http://t-mag.com/html/body_129per.html
    2)http://t-mag.com/html/body_133per.html

    The Eight Keys pts 1-4: Here David really digs into the practice of westside theory, all the good stuff is in part 2 & 3 but read them all anyway.
    1)http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/264eight2.html
    2)http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/265eight2.html
    3)http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/266eight2.html
    4)http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/267eight2.html

    -Enjoy
    #4
    BigDirk
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/04 22:14:23 (permalink)
    i gotta admit, i dont really understand some of the stuff they talk about in those things. Are they dead and squating on the same day? If not, when do they do it. I need a new routine, i have a topic, does that one work? or can someone explain this one to me? I dont have access to all the equipment they talk about in the articles such as chains, bands etc.
    #5
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/04 23:10:05 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by BigDirk

    i gotta admit, i dont really understand some of the stuff they talk about in those things. Are they dead and squating on the same day? If not, when do they do it. I need a new routine, i have a topic, does that one work? or can someone explain this one to me? I dont have access to all the equipment they talk about in the articles such as chains, bands etc.



    Don't "NEED" chains, but they help. Can't you pick up some chain at the hardware store? You do not dead AND squat on the same day. You dont even in the same week. You pick a Max Effort excercise and do that excercise on your ME day working up to a max triple and/or single. And switch it up every so often, I do it about every 3 or so weeks.
    #6
    Entity83
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/05 00:49:51 (permalink)
    quote:
    Don't "NEED" chains, but they help. Can't you pick up some chain at the hardware store?

    Indeed, you dont need chains (since they can be suplemented with bands) but they really help. But dont expect to find 5/8" (1.58cm for you brits out there) chain in any hardware store, youd have to get it from a tractor suppy, logging company, or harbor. If you dont have chains or bands then youre at a huge disadvantage, and will not get much out of the program.

    quote:
    You do not dead AND squat on the same day. You dont even in the same week.

    Actually you DO deadlift and squat on the same day though not every time, the logic there is that in competition your the deadlift is always last so it helps to train it fatigued. I regularly do stiff-legged deadlifts as assistance work for my hams, hips and l.back after squats. What you dont do (or not supposed to when trainng westside) is deadlift first, as a max effort movement, the theory there is that they both involve essentially the same muscles and the deadlift will be trained by training the squat. If youre a begginer then youre advised to deadlift more often to work on your form.

    quote:
    You pick a Max Effort excercise and do that excercise on your ME day working up to a max triple and/or single. And switch it up every so often, I do it about every 3 or so weeks.

    When training the bench or squat using max effort you are supposed to do sets of three until 3 starts to feels heavy then you drop to singles and max out. The main logic behind westside is the use of maximium poundage on a regular basis with work sets lasting no more than 1-2 seconds to train the appropriate energy systems utilized during a competition lift, so you always max out. Max effort work is pretty hard on you joints so I suppose a week or two of triples wont hurt but that should be the exception not the norm. The whole thing should be done within 10 or so sets only the last 2 of which are work sets (I know this hard for a bodybuilder to muster..as was it for me, but for strength its the best out there). Switch your ME movement every 2 weeks to prevent neuromuscular fatigue.

    #7
    ozzy
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/05 10:29:27 (permalink)
    quote:
    Don't "NEED" chains, but they help. Can't you pick up some chain at the hardware store?

    Indeed, you dont need chains (since they can be suplemented with bands) but they really help. But dont expect to find 5/8" (1.58cm for you brits out there) chain in any hardware store, youd have to get it from a tractor suppy, logging company, or harbor. If you dont have chains or bands then youre at a huge disadvantage, and will not get much out of the program. Rubbish. You get plenty out of the program without bands and chains. As long as you keep to the training principles and vary your max effort exercises your will continue to make gains. All Bands and chains do is add to the rewards of your training

    quote:
    You do not dead AND squat on the same day. You dont even in the same week.

    Actually you DO deadlift and squat on the same day though not every time, the logic there is that in competition your the deadlift is always last so it helps to train it fatigued. I regularly do stiff-legged deadlifts as assistance work for my hams, hips and l.back after squats. What you dont do (or not supposed to when trainng westside) is deadlift first, as a max effort movement, the theory there is that they both involve essentially the same muscles and the deadlift will be trained by training the squat. If youre a begginer then youre advised to deadlift more often to work on your form.You don't have to use stiff leg deadlifts as an assistance exercise and even if you do you are not working in a highly taxing rep range of 1-3 reps, you are supposed to up the reps to 6-8 ish. Once you have good deadlifting form you are advised to do deadlifts once every 5-6 weeks. You do squat and dead in the same week, but not heavy on both. One day is used as active recovery (dynamic effort day)

    quote:
    You pick a Max Effort excercise and do that excercise on your ME day working up to a max triple and/or single. And switch it up every so often, I do it about every 3 or so weeks.

    When training the bench or squat using max effort you are supposed to do sets of three until 3 starts to feels heavy then you drop to singles and max out. The main logic behind westside is the use of maximium poundage on a regular basis with work sets lasting no more than 1-2 seconds to train the appropriate energy systems utilized during a competition lift, so you always max out. Max effort work is pretty hard on you joints so I suppose a week or two of triples wont hurt but that should be the exception not the norm. The whole thing should be done within 10 or so sets only the last 2 of which are work sets (I know this hard for a bodybuilder to muster..as was it for me, but for strength its the best out there). Switch your ME movement every 2 weeks to prevent neuromuscular fatigue. You shouldn't always max out. Work to a high load, yes, but max no. It is best advised to work to 4 singles in the 90-95% range of your 1 rm and do maxes once every 3rd week or so
    #8
    Entity83
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/05 20:53:59 (permalink)
    quote:
    Rubbish. You get plenty out of the program without bands and chains. As long as you keep to the training principles and vary your max effort exercises your will continue to make gains. All Bands and chains do is add to the rewards of your training


    Perhaps youd still make good gains without bands and chains (come to think of it, they didnt even have band or chains when westside was first develpoed) but like I said, your at a BIG disadvantage. Saying that they only add to the rewards of your training as an understatement.

    quote:
    You don't have to use stiff leg deadlifts as an assistance exercise and even if you do you are not working in a highly taxing rep range of 1-3 reps, you are supposed to up the reps to 6-8 ish. Once you have good deadlifting form you are advised to do deadlifts once every 5-6 weeks. You do squat and dead in the same week, but not heavy on both. One day is used as active recovery (dynamic effort day)


    Who said that you HAVE to do stiff-legged deadlifts as as assistance exercise? I just personally like to do them more often. Assistance exercises should be chosen according to one's personal weaknesses. And who said anything about 1-3 rep range for assistance work? 6-8 reps is indeed the recommended range.

    quote:
    You shouldn't always max out. Work to a high load, yes, but max no. It is best advised to work to 4 singles in the 90-95% range of your 1 rm and do maxes once every 3rd week or so

    No offense, but you need to do some more reaserch on westside methods before making such claims. Max Effort work out is the benchmark of westside and is its fundumental principle. When training using the max weight (100% or more of your max), the central nervous system inhibition is reduced. Thus the max number of motor units are activated with optimal discharge frequency. If you wanna use the program the way it was meant to be utilized YOU HAVE TO MAX OUT, there is no other way around it. Thats not to say that you cant make youre own modifications to the system, but thats your choice. Im talking about westside the way it is currently practiced at their gym.
    Here is an expert from "the periodization bible" by David Tate who helped developed westside training along with Louie Simmons and has been training at westside barbell for over a decade: "After a proper warm-up, proceed to this exercise and begin to warm up with the bar. Taking small weight increases, you begin to work up in weight with sets of three reps. When three reps begins to feel heavy, you drop down to single reps. This is when you begin to try to max out on the exercise. Keep increasing the weight until you've reached your one rep max."
    Ive provided links to several articles written by David Tate who also holds seminars on westside methods in the US, one of which I attended in october. I recommend you take the time to read them.

    And whats with the red text?! Im simply repeating what I have read, seen, and experienced by studying westside myself, I didnt invent the program, so dont kill the messenger.
    #9
    ozzy
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/06 09:28:11 (permalink)
    I have read all the texts on westside-barbell.com and elitefts.com as well as having seen 3 dead videos, 3 bench videos and 3 squat videos. I also actively read dave tates articles as well and have been using this training method for well over a year now. I unfortuantely don't get to attend Tate's seminars though...

    I understand the principles of the routine and don't fully agree with everything that is written. CNS inhibition will occur if you repeatedly attempt 1 rm's week in and week out. By training to a level of just below your max you reduce the stress on the CNS. This should also be incorporated with regular changes of the max effort exercise.

    The red text is my way of responding to posts which already have quotes in and i have comments or a different opinion. If you would like to see some other posts where i have replied in this manor i would be happy to provide it for you.

    My post was a little rash, it is my opinion and experience that i was talking from, not complete fact or set principles of the westside routine so i should have mentioned it was an opinion not a fact although my opinion is based on the facts.
    #10
    BigDirk
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/06 23:18:42 (permalink)
    alright, so ozzy. i have no access to chains or bars, and i would like to try this. can u maybe give me a sample routine? I need to deadlift often though, i need to make gains in that. for my wanting to gain strenghth for football, what would be best, this or 5x5? Thanks
    #11
    ozzy
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    RE: New article - Westide Barbell Training 2004/01/07 11:02:56 (permalink)
    have you read the article fully Dirk????
    #12
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