Newbie to Juice

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2005/07/29 19:28:01 (permalink)

Newbie to Juice

Some advice if i may,

I've trained on and off for the last 15 years, and regularly for the last 4.
Up until now i've only really used protein supps with a few of the off the shelf pills (****, trib etc)

I've now decided i want to go big.
As a first time steriod user (85kg, 6"2") i'd like to know what you all suggest i take. I respond well to most regular drugs, often needing less than the recommended dosage and have a reasonable fast metabolism. I'd like to try something oral to start wth in smallish doses and see how i get on with it.

post edited by Wrongun - 2005/07/29 20:18:20

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    RE: Newbie to Juice 2005/07/29 20:04:11 (permalink)
    can't give you any sources, but I can tell you I would go with test enan which is a injectable not oral but I like injectables alot more then orals anyway
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    RE: Newbie to Juice 2005/07/29 20:07:42 (permalink)
    I understand why most of you guts prefer injectables but i'm very new to all this and would prefer to do my first cycle with an oral to see how it suits me. If i'm ok then i may do the nex cycle with injectable
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    RE: Newbie to Juice 2005/07/29 20:19:34 (permalink)

    welcome to MT

    Here is some info that has been posted before but sure it will assist in your road to research

    Using may different referances (all listed at the bottom of the post) here many FAQ's have been answered surrounding the topic we discuss. I hope it proves usueful and assists in your knowledge as it has mine putting it togther.

    History of Anabolic Steroids

    Until 1935, no one knew that anabolic steroids were associated with the accumulation of muscle tissue. In that timeframe, two researchers experimenting on dogs discovered that testosterone given under certain conditions would increase muscle mass. The current history of anabolic steroids as abusable drugs began in 1954 among Olympic weightlifters. In 1956, Dianabol (Methandrostenolone) was first marketed in the United States, clearing the way for the use of anabolics by U.S. athletes. At first, only world-class athletes in high-strength sports such as weight lifting abused anabolics. Among Olympic athletes, anabolic steroids were a problem as long ago as 1964. Athletes and their trainers developed high dose, multiple-drug regimens that were not based on scientific research. These methods of use were passed by word of mouth from one training group to another. Even today, the use of many types of steroids in high doses has never been examined in controlled scientific studies. Anabolic steroid abusers mistrust scientific opinions about high-dose steroid use. When it was first noticed as a growing problem, some scientists and public officials stated that there was no evidence that steroids caused muscle growth or improved performance, and that use of large amounts would lead to dramatic, toxic side effects in all users. These pronouncements went against the common knowledge and experience of the athletes, who did not see large numbers of their steroid-using friends dropping dead. As their reputation grew, anabolic abuse spread to other sports. Today, the only Olympic sports in which anabolic steroids have not been detected are women's field hockey and figure skating. Steroid abuse spread beyond the Olympics throughout the 1970's and 1980's. In 1983, nineteen athletes were disqualified from the Olympics for steroid abuse. A 1970 survey of five American universities showed that 15% of college athletes were steroid abusers. By 1984, 20% of college athletes were using steroids. In 1975, anabolic abuse in Arizona high schools was 0.7% over all, with 4% of athletes admitting steroid use. A 1986 survey in Minneapolis revealed a 3% average rate of steroid abuse in grades 8, 10, and 12. In one of these high schools, the rate of use was 8% in senior males. In a 1988 survey in a suburban Chicago school, 6.5% of male students admitted taking steroids, and 2.5% of female students admitted steroid abuse. Surveys in 1989 estimated that there were 500,000 adolescent steroid abusers nationwide, and as many as 1 million steroid abusers of all ages in the United States. In November 1990, U.S. Federal Law classified all anabolic steroids as Controlled Dangerous Substances (Type 2).
    Anabolic/androgenic steroids are analogues of male hormone testosterone. Both have a core 17-carbon steroid chemical structure that gives them anabolic (protein building) and androgenic (masculinizing) properties. Studies were developed to separate the anabolic from the androgenic effects, but this has been only partially accomplished. The androgenic effects of endogenous testosterone are the development of male reproductive system and secondary sexual characters. The anabolic effects include growth and epiphyses closure of long bones during puberty, enlargement of larynx and vocal cords, improvement of red cells number, reduce body fat, and improve muscle mass.
    The ergogenic effects of anabolic steroids use are valued for three main mechanisms of action:

    • They shift the nitrogen equilibrium to the positive side for better utilization of ingested protein and the increased retention of nitrogen. Although temporary and needing a high-protein complementary diet, this effect helps the body to "build" muscles.

    • The formation of a steroid-receptor complex in skeletal muscle stimulates the RNA-polymerase system which, in turn, increase protein synthesis in the cell.

    • Anabolic steroids compete for glucocorticoides receptors, resulting in an anti-catabolic effect by blocking the protein synthesis inhibition which physiologically occurs after exercises due to glucocorticoides liberation.

    • Frequently, an euphoric and more aggressive behavior are experienced by anabolic steroids users, stimulating them to practice more and without fatigue for longer periods.

    It should be noted that doses used by athletes often greatly exceed doses recommended for legitimate medical reasons, causing the potential for even greater negative consequences. Moreover, many athletes will use more than one anabolic steroid simultaneously.
    There are two common regimens practiced by anabolic steroid abusers:

    • Cycling The athlete take the steroid for 6 to 12 weeks and then stops for 10 to 12 weeks. The steroid can be oral or injectable and doses are often 10 to 100 times higher than standard therapeutic dose.

    • Stacking This is the use of more than one anabolic steroid at a time to break through response plateaus that often occurs. About 40% of steroid abusers use this kind of regimen, presenting a high risk for central nervous system.
    None of these regimens are free of side effects and there aren't yet sufficient studies showing the efficacy and injuries caused for each one

    Types of Steroids

    Anabolic steroids are either taken by mouth or injected into a muscle. The "orals," as they are called, are ingested tablets or capsules. These forms are reportedly more toxic to the liver. Often the orals are taken in conjunction with injectable forms. The injectable forms are known as "oils" or "waters". The oils refer to the long-acting types. They are injected into a muscle, usually the buttocks, and the steroid is released slowly over time. Typically, these drugs are injected only a couple of times a week. The "waters" are short-acting forms. Again, these are injected, usually in the buttocks, but they work much faster and are eliminated much more quickly. There are two ways for anabolic steroids administration. Oral steroids are highly potent and are excreted fairly rapidly from the body due to short metabolic half-lives, (usually within weeks). So, oral steroids are the first choice for athletes who want to rapidly improve their performance and try to escape showing positive results on drug tests. These drugs, however, are the most toxic and have more side effects. Injectable steroids are less potent and generally exhibit delayed uptake into the body, especially if they are oil-based diluents. They have less liver toxicity than oral steroids, but they are being less used by athletes because of having a detectability in drug tests for long periods.

    Side Effects

    Since anabolic steroids are synthetic versions of the naturally-occurring male hormone testosterone, they have very similar pharmacological actions and side effects. In mature males, the body secretes 2.5-10 mg of testosterone each day to promote various body processes. Steroid use often introduces up to an additional 100 mg of testosterone into the system daily. When levels become too high, the brain shuts down the body's own production of the testosterone as well as other substances necessary for the proper functioning of the body. Some of the body systems at risk include: Male reproductive system

    • Too much testosterone or related substances (e.g., anabolic steroids) prompts the pituitary gland to stop producing the hormone gonadotropin.

    • This in turn also prevents the production of other intermediate substances which leads to testicular atrophy (decreased size and function), lowered sperm count, sterility (reversible), painful, prolonged erection, prostate enlargement and frequent or continuing erections.

    • When steroid use ceases, the entire testosterone producing function may remain shut down, possibly leading to a permanent imbalance of the hormone. Female reproductive system

    • These side effects are the result of masculinization due to increased testosterone and include enlargement of the clitoris*, uterine atrophy, irregularity or cessation of menstrual cycle, increased body hair*, deepening of the voice*, shrinkage of breast size and masculinization of female fetuses in pregnant women. (*permanent effects) The heart and blood vessels

    • Anabolic steroids cause fluid retention, which can lead to high blood pressure. Steroids also lower high-density lipoproteins (HDLs) in the blood. These HDLs help rid the body of cholesterol.

    • In some cases, production of low-density lipoproteins (LDLs), which promote the production of cholesterol, increases. Too much cholesterol leads to buildup of plaque on the walls of arteries.

    • Clogged arteries can result in strokes or heart attacks. Deaths have been reported in both young and older athletes. Adolescents

    • Bone growth is among the body processes that can shut down with steroid use. Adolescents on anabolic steroids may find their muscles bulking up, but bone growth stops with premature fusion of the epiphysis (growth center) of long bones. The result is permanently stunted growth. There is risk until bones stop growing. Psychological Effects

    • Steroids change users in many ways, but psychological changes can be the most drastic of all. These include:

    • Aggression. Feelings or irritability and aggression may appear so subtly that the athlete may barely notice, but his friends or family will. Taking anabolic steroids keeps an athlete constantly "on edge". Situations that normally would not disturb him can, with steroid use, generate strong feelings of anger and hostility (the "roid rage"). Athletes who take anabolic steroids often have difficulty dealing with people because of these uncontrollable feelings. Anxiety can disturb sleep patterns, and users may experience paranoia.

    • Depression. Anabolic steroids produce psychological addiction. The aggression and other psychological changes accompanying steroid use make the athlete want to take more steroids for even larger muscles. When the athlete goes off steroids and the body decreases in size, depression and other withdrawal symptoms often induce users to take steroids again.

    • Addiction and Dependence. Users may find they have become dependent and experience withdrawal symptoms of severe depression (including suicidal thoughts), insomnia, loss of energy or appetite, sweating, nausea, headaches and craving for anabolic steroids. Withdrawal symptoms will last one to three weeks. Weight loss will also occurHere is a previous post I made on this subject which may prove interesting


    Identifying Steroid Use

    Athletes who use steroids in conjunction with a weight training program can be identified by their quick muscle and weight gain. Other symptoms and adverse effects include: • Head: Headaches, hair loss, puffy cheeks, sore throat, unpleasant breath odor, sore tongue, deepening of voice in females.

    • Chest: Increased breast tissue on male pectorals, decrease of breast size in female, rapid heart rate, heart attack.

    • Skin: Increased oiliness and acne, flushed or yellowish skin, bruising, even with small injuries, increased perspiration, pronounced stretch marks, facial and chest hair on female, rash or hives.

    • Psychological effects: Strained relationships with friends and family, hyperactivity (restlessness, insomnia, irritability), uncharacteristic hostility or aggressive behavior, feelings of frustration and anxiety without provocation, psychotic symptoms paranoia, delusions, hallucinations).

    • Psychological effects of withdrawal: Severe depression, feelings of inadequacy and weakness as body size decreases, suicidal thoughts, lethargy and listlessness, lack of interest in exercise or sports, inability to maintain normal sexual functions, desire to return to steroid use.

    • Genitals and abdomen: Testicles decrease in size, clitoris enlarges, changes in bowel and urinary habits, kidney stones, gallstones, liver tumors.

    • Extremities: Joint stiffness, pain, swelling, increased chance of injury to muscles, tendons, and ligaments, stunted growth in adolescents.

    Medicinal Uses Of Anabolic Steroids

    The FDA has approved some uses for anabolic steroids, which include:

    1. Weight gain for chronic nutritional deficiencies or AIDS wasting syndrome

    2. Relief of bone pain accompanying osteoporosis

    3. Corticosteroid-induced catabolism

    4. Severe anemia

    5. Hereditary angioedema

    6. Metastatic breast cancer in women

    7. Hormone deficiency states in males

    One option for the treatment of AIDS-related wasting syndrome is an anabolic steroid; this class of drugs is known to actually build muscle. Up to now, the only available steroids had to be injected. An oral anabolic steroid called oxandrolone (brand name Oxandrin) has once again become available in the US. This drug was approved by the FDA over 30 years ago to promote weight gain after surgery, trauma and serious infection. However, because of stringent US regulation of steroids, it became largely unavailable. Now the drug's manufacturer, BTH Pharmaceuticals, is re-studying oxandrolone as treatment for AIDS-related wasting. In an as yet unpublished study of 67 people with AIDS-related wasting, those on 15 mg of oxandrolone per day for 16 weeks showed weight gain, those on 5 mg per day stabilized their weight, and those on placebos lost weight. Depending on the dosage, oxandrolone costs from $4-$30 per day; in contrast, Serono's Human Growth Hormone costs $140 per day. There are less expensive anabolic steroids, but they must be injected. (Being Alive Newsletter, January 1997) Another medicinal use of anabolic steroids deals with HIV infection; summarized here by Wayne Dodge, MD: Steroids comprise an important class of biologic compounds in the body. Cholesterol is a steroid. Cortisol, which is the basic well-being hormone of the body, is a corticosteroid. It, and medications like it, such as prednisone, have strong anti-inflammatory properties. They are useful in conditions such as acute PCP or HIV-related persistent oral/esophageal ulcerations, but are also immune suppressing in high doses. Hormones and drugs called mineral corticosteroids govern how the kidneys handle the salts in the blood and thereby maintain blood pressure. The sex hormones are also steroids and include testosterone--the primary anabolic steroid in humans. It is known that testosterone levels decrease in HIV infected men as the disease progresses, (refs 2,3,4,5,6,7) although not all studies have agreed with this finding. (refs 8,9) This decrease in testosterone level has been correlated with both CD4 lymphocyte depletion and weight loss. (ref 7) It is also known that reduced libido and increased incidence of impotence are frequent complaints in males with AIDS. (ref 3) The problem for health care practitioners is that during chronic severe illnesses endocrine systems often show abnormalities that are caused by the illness but are not necessarily the cause of the illness. A prime sample would be tests for thyroid which may be abnormal during a severe illness, although treating the individual on the basis of these lab tests does not help the individual (and may cause harm). An additional complication is that an individual's testosterone level may fall into the normal range for most laboratories, while more sophisticated tests would indicate abnormality. This leaves the clinician and the individual in a dilemma. If an HIV-infected individual has had significant weight loss, significant fatigue, or muscle wasting (especially proximal--e.g., thigh and upper arm), and particularly if associated with a significant decrease in libido and erections, a serum testosterone level should be obtained. If it is in the low or low-normal range (less than 300 mgng/dI) then a trial of testosterone therapy could be tried. The individual and the clinician should decide what result would constitute a successful trial--e.g., weight gain of 15 pounds, a 30% improvement in sense of well-being, a successful erection once a week, etc. Then a testosterone (depo-testosterone) injection of 200 mg every two weeks can be given over two to three months with periodic evaluation. If the treatment is "successful," continued use of the medication is probably warranted. If not, the individual's own hormonal system will rapidly readjust when the medication is stopped.

    Drug Testing

    The International Olympics Committee banned steroids use by all athletes in its member associations in 1975. Since then, most major amateur and professional organizations have put the drugs on their list of banned substances. They include: The National Football League International Amateur Athletic Federation National Collegiate Athletic Association International Federation of Body Builders Evidence suggests that in the past, up to 100% of national and international competitors in the sports of weight lifting, shot-put, discus, javelin throwing, and bodybuilding illegally used anabolic steroids (Hough, 1990). Among college athletes, surveys taken between 1970 and 1988 at five major universities showed a 15% to 20% use rate (Pope, 1988). Recent NCAA surveys for self-reported drug use have detected a steroid usage rate of approximately 2.5% overall (5.0% among football players), suggesting that random drug testing initiated in 1989 has gradually deterred the abuse of anabolic steroids in the college ranks (NCAA Sports Sciences Education Newsletter, Winter 1993). The major national and international sports associations enforce their ban against anabolic steroids by periodic testing. Testing, however, is controversial. Some observers say the tests are not reliable, and even the International Olympic Committee tests, considered to be the most accurate, have been challenged. Athletes can manipulate results with "masking agents" to prevent detection, or they can take anabolic steroids that have calculable detection periods. The USOC and the NCAA have established strict penalties for the use of anabolic steroids by athletes. The testing for anabolic steroids began at the 1976 Olympic Games in Montreal, when laboratory technology first became available and made enforcement of these regulations possible. At the present time, the USOC mandates a 2-year suspension for athletes who test positive, and a life ban for those with a repeated offense. The NCAA initiated year-round testing for anabolic steroids and related masking agents (diuretics and urine-manipulating drugs) in August 1990. Under this new program, at least 6,000 football players in Divisions I-A, I-AA, and II are tested at any time during the academic year--not just during the football season. The selected teams are notified 2 days in advance of the urine specimen collection, and 18 players from each team's official squad list are randomly tested. Furthermore, at least 25% of teams initially tested are retested during the same year for continued compliance. The rule allows for testing of freshmen who have been red-shirted and all regular players. The NCAA extended this year-round testing program for anabolic steroids to Division I track and field teams in 1992, and Division II football in 1994. A positive test results in the loss of eligibility for at least 1 year for the student-athlete. Despite the problems, testing remains an important way of monitoring and controlling the abuse of steroids among athletes. Efforts are underway to make testing more accurate.


    Internet Websites


    Articles & Books

    • The Medical Clinics of North America, Vol 78, Num 2, Gray I. Wadler

    • Anabolic Steroids, Robert J. Fuentes, MS, PharmD

    • Glaxo Research Institute and Jack M. Rosemberg, PharmD, PhD

    • The International Drug Information Center, Arnold and Marie Schwartz College of Pharmacy and Health


    Olympian Member
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    RE: Newbie to Juice 2005/07/29 22:02:49 (permalink)
    Excellent reading, thanks.
    I guess it says 'Don't do it, unless you are prepared for the numerous side affects'

    I'm still interested in giving my development a bit of assistanc, but maybe not through the steroid route.
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    RE: Newbie to Juice 2005/07/29 22:29:24 (permalink)
    AAWWW hell my first cycle ever on my first jab went straight in the left trap, it's not that bad, for real bro, you get used to it. I was shaky as hell and a little nervous, had a hell of a time aspirating, I now believe traps should come with a little more exp. (whenever possible I have someone do my lats and my traps for me now) I don't recommend it for your first jab ever but it's all steady hands now. Just remember to aspirate. and start with quads they seem to be the absolute easiest, for me any way. From what I've read and been told orals tend to be harder on the liver, so I try to stay clear for the most part. Good luck to ya either way, and welcome to the other side ~Grendel~
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