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Overtraining?

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extra.account
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2007/06/08 21:01:26 (permalink)

Overtraining?

Hey

I'm currently lifting a 20Kg barbell, around 3 or 4 sets of 15-20 reps in one session (regular standing full arm curls). I might do this twice in the one day if i have time / motivation. I'd then have a days rest and then do it again the next day. Please note that 20Kg might not be a lot to you, but im a beginner and am only 16 so i havent been doing this very long.

Anyway, usually on my "rest" day i would train my shoulders and forearms. Same 20KG barbell, overhead push-up-barbell-things - about 2 or 3 sets of 10 (it hurts my lower back doing this. Any other suggestions for shoulder workouts?). I do something i dont know the name off, itis - standing leaning forward with legs apart, holding barbell at knee level and raising it toward my chest. About 2/3 sets of 20 reps.

Anyway, ive read the MAX-OT workout and it was i should be taking a good break between each muscle workout. Is a days rest enough for the work im doing? My arms dont hurt or anything, i dont feel tired doing it the next session.

I read here:http://uk.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_60/78b_fitness_tip.html

To do that workout 4 times in 12 days. Thats like 3 days rest! Is that really what i need? Also, the way im working my shoulders, does that interfer with forearm rest and bicep rest? Like should there be days with i do nothing to my upper body?

Thanks for any advice

PS. Any workouts for shoulders that wont kill my back would be appreciated!
PPS. Im too broke to afford a gym, all i have is barbell and dumbbells. Not bench, nothing :)

One final thing, Im seeing gains but theyre very small. Ive heard of guys putting an inch of their arm quite quick with good resting. Should i rest more? All i want is bulk really, to hell with strength and density
post edited by extra.account - 2007/06/08 21:17:37
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25 Replies Related Threads

    susieq
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/08 21:33:56 (permalink)
    Welcome to mt mate,

    your diet needs to be nailed for bulking.

    as for training try compound exercises deadlift ,squat ,pullups,seated shoulder press,stiff legdead lift,bench press.

    doing arms and traps is a bit of a waste of time as the compound movements hit the big muscles and the smaller ones.
    compounds aadd bulk fact.
    improvise for a bench.

    hope this helps a bit
    #2
    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/08 22:29:43 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: scorch

    Welcome to mt mate,

    your diet needs to be nailed for bulking.

    as for training try compound exercises deadlift ,squat ,pullups,seated shoulder press,stiff legdead lift,bench press.

    doing arms and traps is a bit of a waste of time as the compound movements hit the big muscles and the smaller ones.
    compounds aadd bulk fact.
    improvise for a bench.

    hope this helps a bit


    Hey, thanks for replying

    I checked out compound exercises, a lot of it seems like chin ups and bench pressing types. I really, really dont feel comfortable bench pressing on what i have (nothing, cloest i have to a bench is a bed) and i train alone so dropping the barbell on my neck isnt gonna help me. Again with chinups, theres actually nothing in my house in my house thatd work like that. Surely doing normal weights cant be a waste of time? I have gained off it, was more looking for advice on how long i should be resting.

    As for my diet, im gonna try and eat high protein stuff and maybe get a few bars or whatnot. Would they sell stuff like that in tesco? Like normal protein bars? I eat a high fibre diet anyway and id say i have quite a low body fat.

    Any more input on resting etc?

    Thanks
    #3
    walloper
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/08 23:08:54 (permalink)
    When I was starting out my bench was my bed+a stool so I could lower the elbows. I used dumbbells so they wouldn't 'drop on my neck'. Never dropped them though.
    you can buy a fine chin up bar from everlast for 15-20 pounds (doorway).
    Don't eat those protein bars: chicken/beef/fish/eggwhites would be a much better choice.
    Post your diet in the Nutrition forum to get help.

    Check out the training articles in "Articles" under the MT logo on top of the page... there's one on overtraining.
    #4
    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 00:46:27 (permalink)
    Ok so i made a new workout:

    All with 20Kg barbell unless stated otherwise

    Day 1:

    Arm curls - 2/3 sets of 12 reps
    Dead lifts - same as adove
    Military press - same as above

    Day 2:

    Cuban press (see here) - 2/3 sets of 12 reps
    Leaning raise (see the described action at start of post) 3 sets of 20 reps

    Day 3:

    Rest

    Repeat

    What do you think?


    Day 1 is mainly biceps and tricepts (a little shoulder) and day 2 is forearms and shoulders. The third day rest so i should be doing about 4 workouts a week, which is recommended right?

    PS. I plan to eat lots of chicken for high protein. Why dont your recommend protein bars?
    post edited by extra.account - 2007/06/09 00:48:45
    #5
    lost
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 01:08:42 (permalink)
    when are you training your legs ?

     
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    #6
    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 01:23:30 (permalink)
    Dont plan to do legs too much, the deadlift (full body deadlift, from floor to overhead) will do enough for them. Im not bother about leg strength, its upper body that i want
    #7
    lilbigman
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 04:02:52 (permalink)
    All arms and no chest?


    lost - the kid is starting out. I'm sure he'll incorporate legs into his workouts at a later time, if he is indeed going to get serious about it.

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    #8
    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 12:46:36 (permalink)
    Well could you help me out? I need some chest exercises that dont require a bench. It hard finding exercises what will do shoudlers one day, biceps + triceps the other and then chest without having them interfer with the other muscles rest. Like the military press is good for shoudlers but it also does triceps etc.

    Just havin a little difficulty gettting the routine set up. I basicly want upper body mass, for the look more than just the strength. I am qutie thin, i wouldnt say skinny but i want to bulk up a lot.

    Plus dont think this is a flash in the pan thing with me, i am prepared to put the work in for endless months to see results.
    #9
    b5l4ll
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 14:55:50 (permalink)
    Hey Mate

    I started off like you when I was 16, although I only had a set of 20kg dumbells. I'm 23 now and to be honest, should be a lot bigger and would have been had I trained properly and stuck to it.

    When I first started training, all I did was biceps and shoulders like yourself. I wasn't aware of other excerises and how to perform them correctly. Know one at my school spoke of traps or lats etc. Lol it was all about whos arms were bigger!

    Anyhow, I did bicep curls near enough everyday - 3 sets of 10 reps. Again my arms wouldnt hurt the next day but at that age with all that testosterone, growth came quite willingly... My biceps back at that age to about 18 were bigger than they are right now. I never used to focus on my shoulders much because of the pain. Didnt quite like that feeling much back then but now I just have to cope with it!

    Back on to the subject... at 16 I would have loved it if advice was there on how to train properly, and mate, you've been given plenty so far...

    If you don't have a bench, press-ups will have to do. To simulate an increase in weight, prop your feet up on a chair or something... this will make the press-up a little more difficult.

    shoulders, if your lower back starts to hurt, as mine sure did... try sit on a chair properly upright against the back-rest. if your lower back still hurts it's because your arching it which means the weight is too heavy for you and you're bending your back trying to get it up into the air. try lower the weight first and then gradually you'll be able to push out 20kg without any lower back pains.

    I read in your post you we're doing (Bent-Over rows), the exercise you describe as bending over and pulling the weight towards you. This exercise unless performed properly will most definately do your lower back in for you. I personally stay away from this exercise. Even with the use of a weight lifting belt, I find my lower back still does not like it.

    At your age you will be able to exercise quite often and your body will rapidly repair itself. However (again advice I didnt have at that age), if you, eat big (good foods), and train sensibly, combined with sufficient rest, you will grow VERY fast! And for you, nows the time to do it. Stick to it now and you'll have great gains all round!


    #10
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 15:21:18 (permalink)
    Well could you help me out?


    newbie thread below to help
    #11
    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 18:47:32 (permalink)
    Hey, thanks for replying (especially the good long post!)

    Ok final workout:

    Day 1:

    Arm curls, 20 KG Barbell - 4 sets of 20reps

    Day 2:

    Pushups (maybe with chair to make it harder) 3/4 sets of 20

    Day 3:
    Rest

    Day 4:
    Military Press - 2 sets of 12 reps
    Deadlift (from floor to overhead) - 2 sets of 12 reps
    Cuban press - 2 sets of 12 reps (dumbbells)



    What do you think? Good for a starter? As for nutrition, about 60g of protein (at least) will be taken in at lunchtime, plus what i eat the rest of the day.
    #12
    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/09 18:52:27 (permalink)
    What do you think?


    you didnt read the link i gave in my quote "long post"
    #13
    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/10 00:27:59 (permalink)
    Sorry dude, just havent had time. I glanced over it but its a big article, ill read it soon! What do you make of my routine?
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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/10 09:06:31 (permalink)
    What do you make of my routine?


    read the article mate, everything is in there

    its 10 minutes of your time rather than trying to re invent the wheel and coming up with a square shaped object
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    AdamSimpson
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/10 09:32:54 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    What do you make of my routine?


    read the article mate, everything is in there

    its 10 minutes of your time rather than trying to re invent the wheel and coming up with a square shaped object


    im starting to think you like that analogy

    and as for TT's articles, many people have come through MT, many have been told to read TT's articles, some actually have made the time ot read them, some have the bodies they want, you do the math mate

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    #16
    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/10 12:53:04 (permalink)
    Hey

    Isit the "Hard learner" article thats in your sig or the "Newbie" one that you have in the big list of articles? I assumed you meant the noobie one?
    #17
    Miniscus
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/10 13:16:05 (permalink)

    - Back in the gym after 4 years, here we go..
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    extra.account
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/11 13:51:10 (permalink)
    Hey

    Read it, i think i realise the necessity for a good diet now. Getting all that protein isnt gonna be as easy as i thought, im eating a chicken sandwich right now and im drinking lots of milk but what with school and the upcoming summer (social life will restrict being able to eat a tonne of chicken and tuna most meals).

    Isit better to eat high protein RIGHT after a workout? I worked out about half an hour ago, so isit better to eat now than say, midnight tonight yeah?

    Also is there any protein bars or shakes that would be sold in tesco do you think? Do they do those things in small quantites? I'd feel a bit embaressed coming home with a 5lb can of whey, plus my parents might not to be approving.

    Thanks for the advice guys
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    lilbigman
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    RE: Overtraining? 2007/06/11 20:31:34 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: extra.account

    Hey

    Read it, i think i realise the necessity for a good diet now. Getting all that protein isnt gonna be as easy as i thought, im eating a chicken sandwich right now and im drinking lots of milk but what with school and the upcoming summer (social life will restrict being able to eat a tonne of chicken and tuna most meals).

    Isit better to eat high protein RIGHT after a workout? I worked out about half an hour ago, so isit better to eat now than say, midnight tonight yeah?

    Also is there any protein bars or shakes that would be sold in tesco do you think? Do they do those things in small quantites? I'd feel a bit embaressed coming home with a 5lb can of whey, plus my parents might not to be approving.

    Thanks for the advice guys



    If you can't afford a bench, you can't afford protein bars. IMO, you should eat after a workout because you have been working away calories and putting your muscles, bones and joints under a lot of stress and so you need to replenish your energy. You don't necessarily need to eat high amounts of protein in one go, just have enough spread through the day, and being a beginner, you'll grow anyway. Also consume a decent amount of carbohydrates to help repair your muscles.

    EDIT; Why wouldn't the approve of whey protein? It's produced from natural resources and won't harm you. It's not like you're bringing 50 syringes home.
    post edited by lilbigman - 2007/06/11 20:33:54

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