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PCT confusion

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lancs_lad
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2014/11/03 20:49:34 (permalink)

PCT confusion

My years of browsing on here and reading the articles suggest nolva at 20/20/10/10.
 
Now all of sudden some people are suggesting the need for longer PCT.  Why the change? Any evidence or just bro science to make them sound like they have discovered something new?
 
 
#1

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    Ancalagon
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/03 21:07:35 (permalink)
    I personally do longer, and recommend longer, because it has worked better for me as best I can tell. Not a science or a bro-science claim, just my personal experience and observation. Take it or leave it.
    #2
    simonboyle
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/03 22:58:50 (permalink)
    Preference.
    There is nothing to back a 4 week pct, and i always feel better(re; more recovered) after a longer pct.
    And you'll never struggle to find post of people stating that their 4 week pct hasn't worked, and the need further pct.
    #3
    KS_Manchester
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 09:19:42 (permalink)
    If you look at the steroid section, guys that have been shut down for a few months or more will generally run a mixture of meds to kick start the HPTA. shut down = shut down, so why think 4 weeks is fine.

    Having run both 4 week and 6 week PCT, based on feel (and in a few weeks, bloods too) i feel FAR better on the 6 week protocol.

    Better = mood, strength, muscular definition, sleep, libido, energy.

    You always hear about gyno on the back of a 4 week PCT but not on a 6 week PCT (to the best of my knowledge).

    K
    #4
    simonboyle
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 10:46:54 (permalink)
    Exactly. Think 4 weeks would be my minimum.
    #5
    Celt
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 11:42:23 (permalink)
    It's down to personal preference and experience mate. Thing is that at sensible doses (20mg nolva or less per day for example), a serm isn't likely to do tremendous damage to the body (good hydration assumed and at most reasonable alcohol intake). If you're not feeling 'normal' at 4 weeks there's no reason not to carry on for a week or two more.
     
    What I don't like is the previously 'bible' standard of 60mg and 40g daily doses of nolva for the first couple of weeks (or 100/150mg clomid) - I just don't see the need for those sorts of doses from my experience, and don't fancy the toxicity. There may be some that need that dose I guess, but I don't see it being likely for the majority. These compounds have long half lives and build up quickly enough in the body; it's a pretty useful feature for tapering at the end too.
     
    I've been happy with recovery on 3 week pcts after short cycles (4-6 weeks), and usually run around 5 weeks nolva after a longer injectable cycle (without using hcg). Whether that will continue as I plough on towards 40 we will see, but its working for me for now.
    #6
    rokkus3
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 12:26:10 (permalink)
    3-4 weeks is ample for most moderate duration cycles.
     
    I echo Celt re. the dosing, don't see any need for going over 20mg Nolva.  If you overlap your last week of your cycle with 20mg Nolva then you completely negate the (flawed) argument for taking a larger dose during the first week/couple of days (to saturate your system with a SERM).

    "Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - Vince Lombardi

    #7
    simonboyle
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 12:41:49 (permalink)
    Not to be a douche, but how do you know it is ample. Seen very few, in fact none, blood tests for a solo 4 week nolva PCT.
    #8
    KS_Manchester
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 13:49:53 (permalink)
    I agree 20mg seems to be the 'optimum' level, otherwise they'd be manufacturing 40mg pills, but they don't.

    I wonder if doctors ever prescribe 20mg+10mg tabs = 30mg? Or 20mg+20mg for that matter?

    Interesting only made in 10mg and 20mg denominations.

    Is 40mg for 1 week more toxic than 1 week of PH+20mg Nolva?

    Without bloods, this is all just hypothetical isn't it.

    Plenty of water and healthy food should ensure the liver and kidneys are well flushed and able to function effectively.

    A good solid post pct / pre next cycle detox should be on everyone's agenda.

    If i run an 8 week cycle, i will always be running a 40/20/20/20/10/10 pct protocol.

    If i run Mdien for 30 days, i might still run a 6 week pct. If i run 8mg 50 day mdien i will definitely run 6 week pct.

    Plus libido is awesome on nolva and its a good cycle in its own right.

    K
    post edited by KS_Manchester - 2014/11/04 13:51:07
    #9
    KS_Manchester
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 13:54:35 (permalink)
    Ps. I don't mind being a douche LOL. Man up bro ha ha.

    K
    #10
    simonboyle
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 15:12:09 (permalink)
    I'll up my tictacs
    #11
    Celt
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 15:57:01 (permalink)
    Typical dosing for the drug's main use in breast cancer treatment and prevention is 20mg ed, administered either in two 10mg daily doses or one 20mg, hence the typically available pharma tab dosing.
     
    Whilst 40mg might be used in some cases, including those where it is being administered to stimulate ovulation, I don't think that's the dose for the majority, so wouldn't expect to see anyone produce a tablet at that dose.
    #12
    KS_Manchester
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 15:58:48 (permalink)
    simonboyle
    I'll up my tictacs


    And your lifting.

    K
    #13
    KS_Manchester
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 15:59:23 (permalink)
    Celt
    Typical dosing for the drug's main use in breast cancer treatment and prevention is 20mg ed, administered either in two 10mg daily doses or one 20mg, hence the typically available pharma tab dosing.
     
    Whilst 40mg might be used in some cases, including those where it is being administered to stimulate ovulation, I don't think that's the dose for the majority, so wouldn't expect to see anyone produce a tablet at that dose.


    Yes OK, good.

    K
    #14
    lancs_lad
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 16:51:44 (permalink)
    Okay.
     
    So if I have enough nolva for 4 weeks and enough clomid for 3 weeks.  (Not wanting to purchase anymore).  Any suggestions on what you would do in this situation?  Add some pro-ATD on the end?
     
    Thanks
    #15
    Celt
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/04 16:59:33 (permalink)
    No I wouldn't add an AI at the end, no need to wipe out what little oestrogen you're producing at that point as that'll likely make you feel sh1te and mask your pct progress.

    I'd run what you have and trust it personally. 3 week pcts were the 'norm' for 12 week injectable cycles for many years and although advice has changed in the few years since we're not seeing a lot of evidence that they were inadequate nor led to any long term issues.
    #16
    Ancalagon
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    Re: PCT confusion 2014/11/05 22:42:48 (permalink)
    Maybe just run the Nolva and shelve the Clomid. If after 4 weeks you have issues, or don't think you are recovered, use the Clomid.
    #17
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