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PH and bodyfat

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BigKahunaBurger
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2009/07/15 22:20:54 (permalink)

PH and bodyfat

Currently am bulking, however i already have a mid-high bf % (20%ish) and was thinking about using epi or halo to promote lean gains.  However, would this be like pissin in the wind because of my bodyfat %.
 
Should i diet down to about 12% before starting a cycle?
 
Opinions welcome :)
#1

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    Daari
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/15 23:36:10 (permalink)
    Depends on what you intend to attain from the cycle.

    If you want to 'bulk' without adding much fat, then yes; both compounds are suitable

    If you were hoping they would help 'lean you out' whilst you gain muscle - Very unlikely
    #2
    MILKY
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/16 18:55:38 (permalink)
    The way i like to think about lowering bodyfat with a PH or DS is basically think of trying to retain muscle mass you already have whilst using a calorie deficient diet. This way you reduce bodyfat but are not expecting to increase muscle mass or gain weight on the scales to measure the compounds effectiveness if that makes sense.

    This for me clears up the confusion of expecting  to gain whilst droping bodyfat and eating like a horse.
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    BigKahunaBurger
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/16 19:28:54 (permalink)
    it is probably best to wait until i have a good base, and then start with a course of either epi or halo when my bf is lower so i can see the actual gains.
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    MILKY
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/16 20:00:32 (permalink)
    seems like a sensible answer why lot looking into 11-test by FA

    thats the same as 11oxo produced by ergopharm very mild can be run for 8 weeks and burn fat very well
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    Daari
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/17 00:10:33 (permalink)
    I disagree about it burning fat very well.
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    MILKY
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/18 16:17:54 (permalink)
    I have a friend thats using 11 oxo by ergopharm at the moment so i will reserve judement untill he finishes his cycle 8 weeks at 6 caps per day.

    Ive read many reviews that this is great at lowering body fat, doesnt cause water retention or bloat is actual a cortisol regulator and doesnt aromatise to estrogen which are all favorable for lowering bodyfat . I was under the impression that it targets adipose fat the stubborn type.

    Like i have said with other PH or DS i will state i havent taken this so my infomation can not be taken as categorical. However ive read many positive reviews on this product many be run at 6 caps for longer periods with slow steady decrease in bodyfat.

    Maybe it works more indirectly that i stated again retaining muscle mass while in a calorie deficient diet.

    post edited by MILKY - 2009/07/18 16:20:12
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    BigKahunaBurger
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/18 19:34:20 (permalink)
    i was planning on going for the good ol' clen and eca.  I will look into 11 oxo, thanks for suggesting an alternative
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    Daari
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/19 00:33:14 (permalink)
    MILKY

    I have a friend thats using 11 oxo by ergopharm at the moment so i will reserve judement untill he finishes his cycle 8 weeks at 6 caps per day.

    Ive read many reviews that this is great at lowering body fat, doesnt cause water retention or bloat is actual a cortisol regulator and doesnt aromatise to estrogen which are all favorable for lowering bodyfat . I was under the impression that it targets adipose fat the stubborn type.

    Like i have said with other PH or DS i will state i havent taken this so my infomation can not be taken as categorical. However ive read many positive reviews on this product many be run at 6 caps for longer periods with slow steady decrease in bodyfat.

    Maybe it works more indirectly that i stated again retaining muscle mass while in a calorie deficient diet.


    It may help keep one a little leaner whilst on a bulk but no steroid will directly burn much fat (the most probable candidate for this is tren).  I am aware af it's antagonist of cortisol and it's actions at the glucocorticoid receptor level.  Yes it can help a little with regards to VAT (visceral adipose tissue) but to say it burns fat very well is a little far fetched.
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    MILKY
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/19 11:14:25 (permalink)
    Yes agreed maybe the indication that i was wrongly making was the fact that 11oxo was directly responsible for the bodyfat reduction and though i still believe it helps maybe not as much as i was suggesting.

    It may have been more pertinent to say that it is good at aiding fat loss while holding muscle mass with high protein diet in calorie deficient diet.

    The reason i would prefer this over out and out fat burners like ECA stack and other stimulant burning products is i believe at lot of this works by surpressing appetite and again not directly. The problem i see with traditional fat burners is basically if your appetite is surpressed you are more incline to stop eating 4-5 meals of high protein and therefore loss muscle mass due to loss of appetite.

    This is where extra weight loss on scales can be misleading as you will allmost certainly have lost muscle weight as well as fat.

    What do you think?
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    Daari
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/19 14:52:09 (permalink)
    It depends on the individual, IMO.

    I can eat all day long.  I can easily consume 8k calories if I wanted to (6-7k voluntarily) - for someone like me; ECA is a dream come true, as I need the appetite supression whilst cutting.  The extra 'energy' and 'focus' that it provides for my fasted cardio sessions is also welcomed with open arms

    Unless the cardio regime/diet is brutal or one has a naturally high metabolism then I don't think muscle loss is much of a concern for those of us within out natural limits (assuming adequate protein intake during the transitional period).  Whilst dieting one may look flat or lose strength, but this is seldom the case after the person has restored adequate glycogen stores upon cessation of the diet.

    Cortisol antagonism does however represent an effective means of helping one reduce bodyfat, especially VAT.
    #11
    MILKY
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    Re:PH and bodyfat 2009/07/19 17:14:02 (permalink)
    Thats interesting to me because i was until now under the impression that ECA suppressed everyone appetite. Mainly because it affects mine so dramatic i never used a full bottle of t5's or ephreda but when i taken it spontaneously ive not been able to eat for hours after.


    #12
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