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Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd??

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Icemansoldier
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2015/03/04 22:34:29 (permalink)
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Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd??

Been fined for parking in loading bay, I've read up on google about civil enforcement ltd and all advice I've read to date are to ignore them. Any experiences? The fourth letter came from them the other day and they are threatening solicitor and court action. So do I have to pay this or is it a load of bollocks?
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    dirtyvest
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/04 22:40:57 (permalink)
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    I don't think ignoring them works in your favour IF it goes to court, but there is a due process you can follow that basically challenges them where you do stand a decent chance but you'll need to dog a bit more to get the low down there

    Limits, like fear, are often just an illusion: MJ 12/9/09
    My journal
    #2
    Icemansoldier
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/04 22:44:51 (permalink)
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    Still reading up on it, they issued the fine 14days after the date it happened and im reading they may have to issue it within 14 days. Also I was driving the car but I'm not the registered owner so therefore they would have to prove its me, which is unlikely surely. Your advice is to challenge them?
    #3
    Dhiren
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/04 22:50:34 (permalink)
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    I would run a search on this and/or ask on this forum http://forums.pepipoo.com/
    #4
    Icemansoldier
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/04 23:02:35 (permalink)
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    Dhiren
    I would run a search on this and/or ask on this forum http://forums.pepipoo.com/


    Cheers mate this site popped up quite abit on my search, must post up on their forum, thanks bud
    #5
    fairhouse
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 00:22:19 (permalink)
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    If it's the council or the police you'll have to pay it, if it's a private company, ignore them.
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    Osagi
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 00:26:29 (permalink)
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    Icemansoldier
    Still reading up on it, they issued the fine 14days after the date it happened and im reading they may have to issue it within 14 days. Also I was driving the car but I'm not the registered owner so therefore they would have to prove its me, which is unlikely surely. Your advice is to challenge them?

     
    Hi Ice, I've successfully challenged a number of PCN's (parking charge notices) issued by CEL and a number of other private parking control companies both for myself and other people.
     
    The advice you've probably seen posted around the web advising people not to challenge these tickets, to ignore them and that they'll just go away, or that these companies don't have any power etc is unfortunately no longer valid.
    A change in the law in October 2012 basically gave these companies a number of legal rights to take people to court if these tickets aren't paid or successfully challenged. And I can tell you from personal experience that CEL do take people to court, so yes, you need to challenge this.
     
    However just as there are strict time limits within which the parking control companies must complete certain tasks etc, there are also time limits for which you have to lodge an appeal/challenge.
     
    You say you've now received 4 letters from these guys, that would suggest that you may be outside the time limit required to lodge an appeal via POPLA, which is the fastest and easiest way to get these tickets squashed (a POPLA appeal that simply states "I, as the driver of the vehicle, wish to invoke your appeals procedure on the basis that your charges are penal in nature and not a genuine pre estimate of loss" wins every time against CEL as they, like all of the other parking control companies do not base their charges on actual costs/loss, therefore they are a fine and penal in nature and only the courts and local authorities have a legal right to issue penalty charges, the private car parking companies may only recover costs equating to any actual loss suffered by the land owner, the whole industry is based on this flawed and illegal practice, yet the DVLA continues to sell our details to these companies at a profit, piss poor all round).
     
    However if you've passed the time limit for lodging a POPLA appeal all is not lost (it's just a lot easier to nip these things in the bud with a quick appeal letter to POPLA at the appropriate time) but my advice would be to post your details up on the Pepipoo forum as soon as you can and those guys will keep you right.
     
    The other benefit of submitting an appeal to POPLA for these private parking tickets - for every appeal that POPLA receives, they charge the private parking company £27. So a good appeal will see the charge squashed and the parking company out of pocket.
    #7
    fairhouse
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 01:35:39 (permalink)
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    Osagi
     
    A change in the law in October 2012 basically gave these companies a number of legal rights to take people to court if these tickets aren't paid or successfully challenged. And I can tell you from personal experience that CEL do take people to court, so yes, you need to challenge this.
     
     



    He's in NI; I believe this only applies to England.
    #8
    Osagi
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 02:32:32 (permalink)
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    fairhouse
    He's in NI; I believe this only applies to England.

    If that's the case, good spot. The change to the law which allows them to pursue the registered keeper in the event nobody admits to being the driver of the vehicle only applies to England, Scotland and Wales I believe. So as long as nobody responds to any of correspondance and holds their hand up admitting they were the driver its safe to ignore.
    #9
    SeanR
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 05:39:44 (permalink)
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    I was sent a link some time ago, i dont know much about the link at all but found it interesting. There is a piece on parking fines, a quote and the link below. http://www.yourstrawman.com/
    A Parking Ticket is a "Notice", and please be aware that a Parking Ticket is not a bill, but instead it is a Notice telling you that there is something to which you should pay attention.   So you write back saying that you have noticed their Notice and that as they appear to think that you owe them money, you are happy to pay, but first you need some verification before payment is made.   "First, there is a need to verify the debt, so please send me a bill with a signature on it.   Also, I need to see the lawful, two-party contract supporting that bill".   As they can't supply either of those things, it kills the claim stone dead, so just keep insisting that they either supply those things or else stop bothering you.
     
     
     
     
    #10
    Mobster
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 08:12:32 (permalink)
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    Me and my fictitious strawman ha ha

     
    #11
    SeanR
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 15:49:25 (permalink)
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    Haha, i have a mate whos into all that stuff, occasionally get the odd write up/video. Sent me video last week, does impress me when folk know the law better than those who should know the law https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8g_tNimjEo
     
    As for the quote i stated on parking fines, i have no clue has to whether it will work or not, but im sure many have tried.
    post edited by SeanR - 2015/03/05 16:22:19
    #12
    Mobster
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 16:48:03 (permalink)
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    The 'freeman' thing can be good too.

     
    #13
    Mobster
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 17:53:58 (permalink)
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    Watched the video. I liked the way they think but... all I think will happen is the law will change. Plus they can pay their damn bills.

     
    #14
    Osagi
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/05 20:33:38 (permalink)
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    SeanR
    As for the quote i stated on parking fines, i have no clue has to whether it will work or not, but im sure many have tried.

    It won't. If you response to the parking company with that, they'll simply respond and say something along the lines of "we acknowledge your reply / appeal however we cannot cancel the aprking charge, therefore the charge still stands and must be paid." At that stage it would be wise to submit an appeal to popla, where with the correct terms and legal response (which I mentioned in my first reply) you'll succeed in having the charge cancelled.
     
    However if you just ignore any further further correspondence it usually goes something like this, perhaps;
     
    PCN sent within 14 days of the parking incident giving 14 days to pay at a reduced rate
    2nd reminder / warning letter sent 28 days after parking incident if charge has still not been paid, this time requiring the full amount (without any discount)
    14 days later, a third letter giving a final warning stating that if the charge is not settled they will proceed with court action
    After that they are free to proceed with court action, sending you court papers that you must complete etc in their own time frames.
     
    If you ignore until (if) you get the court papers through, you can obviously at that stage still put together a defence, which would be along the same lines as the appeal you may have submitted to popla. However, you've then got the bloody hassle of completing all those court papers and if you don't, you make it an easy settlement for the parking company in the small claims court. Put up a fight however and the vast majority of times if it gets that far the parking company will usually pull out at the last minute, having put you to all that trouble. Barstewards.
     
    Much simpler like I say to submit a short appeal letter to popla at the appropriate time.
     
    My main gripe with this whole thing - the dvla being allowed to pass on our personal information to these companies. Surely this should constitute a breach of our privacy / data protection, however it seems not.
    #15
    SeanR
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/06 06:26:15 (permalink)
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    Hi Mobster, i agree, i suppose a majority are lazy buffoons, but then there are those with a genuine run of bad luck.

    Hi Osagi, i see. I will pass that information onto my mate, hopefully it wont dampen his rebellious spirit too much, entertaining none the less.
    post edited by SeanR - 2015/03/06 06:30:59
    #16
    profplums
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/06 08:06:37 (permalink)
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    Whilst you are of course free to 'believe' something like 'http://www.yourstrawman.com'
    I would not recommend actually trying any of the advice given regarding mortgages/fines etc
    I have never heard of a successful legal argument along those lines, and don't imagine I ever will.
    Otherwise good luck with your fight.  If you are happy to, please keep us updated with how things go.
    #17
    SeanR
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/06 08:21:47 (permalink)
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    Profplums, you sound like you work for the goverment!.........joking :)

    I suppose its a lock ness monster type of thing, know its b----x, but will still sit through a one hour documentary on the subject haha
    #18
    CitizenKane
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/06 08:57:31 (permalink)
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    I
    profplums
    Whilst you are of course free to 'believe' something like 'http://www.yourstrawman.com'
    I would not recommend actually trying any of the advice given regarding mortgages/fines etc
    I have never heard of a successful legal argument along those lines, and don't imagine I ever will.
    Otherwise good luck with your fight.  If you are happy to, please keep us updated with how things go.


    My god...I've never heard such utter bollocks!

    "Be adequate"
     
    #19
    Jimmygimp
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    Re: Parking charge notice - civil enforcement ltd?? 2015/03/06 13:20:36 (permalink)
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    If it's a private parking fine I'd personally still be inclined to ignore it.  Someone above has mentioned a law change but I'd be interested seeing some data regards successful prosecutions of these penalty fines.  My guess is there won't be any because the firms still take very few people to court, simply because the cost incurred to them would be much more than any actual 'fine' the driver would be forced to pay.  It's much quicker, easier and cheaper to threaten people (similar model to the TV licence). 
     
    I've had about 4-5 of these fines in the past 5 years for being slightly over the allotted time and ignored every one.  Each has followed the same sort of steps: initial letter offering me the chance of paying 'half' the the fine; then a letter with a high, seemingly arbitrary figure; then a 'solicitor' and finally one asking me to just pay 'something' and they'll 'forget all about it'.
    #20
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