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Iss
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2003/12/23 03:50:55 (permalink)

Please critique

hello everyone. I'm new to this board but I'm sure glad i found it. . .

supplements i take
whey protien
l-glutamine
EFA's
Branched chain ammino acids
multi vitamins

My routine for the past 13 weeks was basically one that my friend gave me. He used to be a powerlifter.
monday-chest/back
flat bench (barbell)
2x10 135 warmup
4X10 workout weight
Incline Bench (barbell)
3x10
Butterflies
3X10
chest pulldowns
3X10
barbell rows
3X10


tues.
legs/shoulders
squats 2x10 warm up 4x10 heavy
leg extensions 3x10
hamstring curls 3x10

barbell raises3x10
military press 3x10
dumbell side raises3x10

Wed. off

Thursday -same as monday except i'd use dumbells for chest exc.
same back stuff except lighter~ light legs to

friday
biceps/triceps
dumbell concentration curls 3/4 x 10
preacher curls dumbell 3x10
easy curl bar 3x10

triceps
close grip bench 4x10
skull crushers3x10
french curls3x10


Please note: I would do 4x10 benching/squating.. basically all my heavy main excersizes... after four weeks, i'd drop my heavy set reps down to 8. Do that for four weeks than drop to 6. than my last week i'd just max out and see my progress....

Now my goal is just putting on size and I've looked over Frank NY's routine... im so sorry if i got the name wrong :) Only benching once a week? That just shocks me that it would work. I'm very willing to try it and i think i'm going to. One thing im wondering about is triceps. It seems like your not really doing any isolation excersizes for them so how are they really going to grow a lot. I mean benching uses them, but also chest~ depending on grip~ Im just wondering??~??~ ! I will greatly appreciate any replies and I would love to hopefully hear from F. NY Once again thanks for taking the time to read.
Iss
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31 Replies Related Threads

    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/23 04:22:09 (permalink)
    No offense, but he wasn't much of a powerlifter doing sets of 10. Reps should be 5 and under. Id say if you have a decent base, go with Frankies Routine. I put on about 15-18 lbs with it. I have since moved into Westside training and added about 3-5 lbs.

    Benching (Heavy) once a week is fine. Using heavy weight, as you should on a 5x5 scheme will really work your muscles and your CNS. 5x5 is a very hardcore routine, so you will need plenty of rest, thus Push only once a week. On Westside (like me) you bench 2x a week, (or a bench type excercise, ie: Dips, Floor Presses), such as with me. Tuesday is Max Effort Bench, I use triples, and then work up to a max single. And then on Friday is my Dynamic Effort Bench day, where I work on form and explosiveness with 10-12 Triples or Doubles with 50% of my max.

    I personally prefer Westside to 5x5, as with me 5x5 I got bored with easily, whereas Westside you can change it fairly frequently. But if you are new to lifting, especially to lifting heavy, go with 5x5 for at least 3-5 months.

    You can check out my 5x5 journal here, http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=57338

    and Westside here, http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64475

    Feel free to critique either of them, especially the Westside one. And also, welcome to MuscleTalk, I look forward to your posting.
    #2
    Iss
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/23 05:24:27 (permalink)
    As the weeks went on, the lower the reps got just like i previously posted. I do know that he would't of been much of a powerlifter if he stayed at 10 reps... he's 50 years old right now and got back into lifting a few months ago... benching 300+ not to shabby
    Thanks for your reply!
    #3
    Iss
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/23 05:31:06 (permalink)
    I looked at your workout journal and i just am shocked again at how little you have to train your muscles.. i mean it has to be intense and well used time, but there are so few excersizes per muscle group. For shoulders i'd do like three different excersizes for them.. overtrainning??
    #4
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/23 06:11:47 (permalink)
    Maybe...But that many excercises are not needed. If you train hard, and train smart, you wont have to train long. Very few people seem to respond as well to high volume routines, as low volume, extremely intense ones. If you think about it, you do more excercises per body part then you think.

    You use triceps in all pressing movements, Bench, Dips, Military Press, Etc.

    You use Biceps in most if not all back excercises. Such as rowing.

    Etc. Etc.

    Try to think of training yourself in segments, rather then by muscle. Push/Pull/Legs is a great split. Most people new to training feel that they can never do enough. Trust me on this, heavy weight, low reps, big compounds, you will use all of your muscles, and they shall grow.
    #5
    Cashman
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/23 09:58:15 (permalink)
    I agree that even starting at 10x rep sets is too high for training strength specific. If you look at hard 5x5 training you'll find that workouts are intense and by set 3 or 4x you are struggling to hit 5x reps if you are training right. If you can actually do all 5x sets at 5x reps then it's time to add weight. The beauty with 5x5 is that it's heavily geared towards the big compound lifts so that you have no need to really do much isolation work at all. Look at shoulders as an example: your shoulders get hit in almost every chest exercise then you do another 9x sets isolation the following day for specifically shoulders. That looks like overtraining what is comparatively a small muscle group. Also why no deadlifts on back day?
    #6
    T-Bone123
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/23 11:10:26 (permalink)
    I think the routine is a little uneven IMO.

    6 sets for Back but 10 for Chest? The back is actually a larger muscle than the pectorals.

    Equally 10 sets each for biceps and triceps is too much volume in my opinion.

    I would change the split - take a look at cashmans beginners routine, thats a solid routine to start with.
    #7
    Iss
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 19:08:29 (permalink)
    I am just shocked that training chest one day a week can stimulate better growth than training them twice a week. Some people bench 3 times a week and i watch them workout and they really pound themselves. How come they continue to get stronger and bigger? Would it be that if they worked chest once a week they'd be getting stronger and bigger even faster?? Another thought is that usually people take a week off to let their body rest, and they lose a little strengh usually... well, if you only work chest once a week, isn't that like taking a week off?? I'm sorry if this sounds so dumb, but as you can see im amazed that training chest one a week can give you good results.... Anyone want help me understand this better?!?!?
    #8
    tino
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 19:33:35 (permalink)
    people training a bodygroup 3x a week is crazy. however, when someone wanted a routine and they just started, i gave them a whole body workout to do 3x a week
    basically--

    squats
    deadlifts
    incline barbell press
    bentover rows
    military press
    barbell curls
    parallel dips

    he did this for a month then dropped the reps to about 6 and increased the weight(cos he was a hardgainer) i generally find hardgainers respond better to low rep, heavy compound exercises.(who doesn't). then split him into
    legs/push/pull and he got incredible gains.
    #9
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 19:34:09 (permalink)
    Taking a week off usually has very little loss of strength. The point of taking a week off is to let your body refresh as a whole. In hard heavy training, your CNS takes a heck of a beating.

    If you want to traing like the people you see, go ahead, but if you ask for our help, make sure you want it first.

    We are telling you from experience. Would you rather listen to the many, many MT members, or the few pumpers at your local gym, who pull their routines straight from FLEX?
    #10
    tino
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 19:37:18 (permalink)
    wihtout sounding like an ass but its ironic that u wrote- "please critique my routine (ADVANCED PEOPLE ONLY)"- my sister could have told u how u can improve ur routine!
    #11
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 19:38:46 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by tino

    wihtout sounding like an ass but its ironic that u wrote- "please critique my routine (ADVANCED PEOPLE ONLY)"- my sister could have told u how u can improve ur routine!



    True, but no need to be so sarcastic.
    #12
    tino
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 19:40:33 (permalink)
    Also if you want help with ur routine got to tell us more
    what are your goals, how old are you bodyfat levels?? etc, etc
    #13
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 19:42:22 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by tino

    Also if you want help with ur routine got to tell us more
    what are your goals, how old are you bodyfat levels?? etc, etc



    Much better...more constructive....
    #14
    Iss
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 20:50:23 (permalink)
    I didn't mean to sound cocky or anything, i was just asking for people who really knew what they were doing to help me with my routine... I didn't think i'd get a lot of sarcastic replies... anyways black dragon i benching 100 pounds over my body weight... that's more than what you can say :)

    My goal is to just add mass. I am done strength training. Basically i think im going to try doing 5X5 like many others are doing. Sorry for being a annoyance to you~
    #15
    Iss
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 20:54:35 (permalink)
    Once again, please do not reply with smart remarks. I appreciate your nice reply cash :)

    I'm 20 years old... lifted for about 48 weeks... body fat around 9%
    I'd just like to add muscle. I try to eat 4,000-5,000 calories a day.. lots of protien and carbs... my diet is very good.
    #16
    Slyblackdragon
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/24 23:40:47 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Iss

    I didn't mean to sound cocky or anything, i was just asking for people who really knew what they were doing to help me with my routine... I didn't think i'd get a lot of sarcastic replies... anyways black dragon i benching 100 pounds over my body weight... that's more than what you can say :)

    My goal is to just add mass. I am done strength training. Basically i think im going to try doing 5X5 like many others are doing. Sorry for being a annoyance to you~



    Well Iss I have just finished a bulking routine and am starting to gain strength. Up untill the last month or so, strength wasnt my concern. I will bow out, you obviously dont need my help. Enjoy your time on MT...sorry for responding.
    #17
    jack hammer
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/25 00:29:05 (permalink)
    quote:
    wihtout sounding like an ass but its ironic that u wrote- "please critique my routine (ADVANCED PEOPLE ONLY)"- my sister could have told u how u can improve ur routine

    Is there any need for this nonsense? If you feel you need to respond in this manner, please do not respond at all.
    #18
    Iss
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/25 03:52:47 (permalink)
    Thank you jack hammer :) And to the rest that are polite :) I hope i can learn alot from poeple on this board.
    Iss
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    Robert
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    RE: Please critique 2003/12/25 12:54:50 (permalink)
    what the flying fcuk is going on here then?????

    Iss. you are not doing yourself any favours by asking for advanced adivce, my reasons for this are twofold:

    #1 you are not advanced, so you need a beinners routine imo.
    #2 even if you do not mean any offense by it, some would take it. and as a general rule on mt, if it will cause offense/controiversy, don't post it.

    quote:
    My routine for the past 13 weeks was basically one that my friend gave me

    #1 13 weeks isn't enough to see if a routine works for a beginner or not.
    #2 if he is so good why do you want our advice? [at 50 to bench 300lb is v.v.good]

    quote:
    He used to be a powerlifter.



    so if your not interested in strength and want size, why take the advice of a powerlifter??

    quote:
    monday-chest/back
    flat bench (barbell)
    2x10 135 warmup
    4X10 workout weight
    Incline Bench (barbell)
    3x10
    Butterflies
    3X10
    chest pulldowns
    3X10
    barbell rows
    3X10


    tues.
    legs/shoulders
    squats 2x10 warm up 4x10 heavy
    leg extensions 3x10
    hamstring curls 3x10

    barbell raises3x10
    military press 3x10
    dumbell side raises3x10

    Wed. off

    Thursday -same as monday except i'd use dumbells for chest exc.
    same back stuff except lighter~ light legs to

    friday
    biceps/triceps
    dumbell concentration curls 3/4 x 10
    preacher curls dumbell 3x10
    easy curl bar 3x10

    triceps
    close grip bench 4x10
    skull crushers3x10
    french curls3x10



    as per the others, way too much volume for certain body parts and not enough intensity in others. and why no deadlifts??

    quote:
    I will bow out, you obviously dont need my help. Enjoy your time on MT...sorry for responding


    when a charming [i'm not hitting on you sly] member of mt reply's, trys to help and you treat him in a manner that he feels neccesitates this response you clearly are in the wrong.

    quote:
    I would love to hopefully hear from F. NY


    FNY is a very well respected member of this forum, but so are many others it is not in good taste to single out people like this.

    quote:
    I didn't think i'd get a lot of sarcastic replies


    you didn't. you got one.

    quote:
    anyways black dragon i benching 100 pounds over my body weight... that's more than what you can say :)



    so what, there are uncountable people on here that can do all kinds of awsome things, Jonny5 for example has incredible grip strength, scruffy can do dips with twice his bodyweight and i can do nearly 120 pressups/60+ips and 40+pullups in one go, does that mean they/i have the right to arrogant about it??? no, and they aren't. do not ever assume that you are supirior to someone because of things like that.

    quote:
    I'm sorry if this sounds so dumb, but as you can see im amazed that training chest one a week can give you good results.... Anyone want help me understand this better?!?!?


    ok here's where i will help you.

    you will gain better by avoiding overtraining because you build muscle and strength while you recover/rest, not in the gym, if you didn't we would all be on the bench/power rack 24/7. more recovery=faster, better gains.

    JH+other mods:

    i would like to apologise to yu in advance, although i am aware that my post may be regarded as inflammotry and uncalle for, i belive that treating others on this board with respect is more important than anything else..
    if this post has cause for you to edit it/delete it [i doubt] yuou have my permission and apologises in advance.

    rob
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