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Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated

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i like poached eggs
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2011/03/20 21:34:10 (permalink)

Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated

I would be grateful for a few opinions on the following routine I intend to start and follow for the next 10 weeks. I can get to the gym pretty much only on Tues/Thurs/Sat due to work and other commitments, I do have a spin bike and rower at home for some cardio work. After 10 weeks my new garage will be built, half of which will be a gym with power rack, bench and weights.
 
I’ve been going to the gym for around 10 weeks now and have been concentrating on learning good form on a wide variety of exercises and getting used to the idea of training with weights. I’m 46 years old, 6 foot tall and around 23 stone, relatively fit for my age but not particularly strong in my view, although I am really starting to notice some real improvements over the last few weeks.
 
I’m hoping to increase my strength and would like to put on a bit of lean muscle, trying hard with the diet which I believe I have under control. I’m not planning on becoming  serious body builder but just want to get in decent shape.
 
I’ve been doing a fair bit of reading forum posts and articles about routines and have got a little confused to be honest, there’s just so much conflicting information out there.
 
Plan is to do the following routine 5 reps X 5 sets with progressive increases in weight when I can complete 5x5 OK. The gym I go to is pretty basic, just a Smiths, a squat rack, leg press, extension, curl, calf machines, lat station, a couple of benches and free weights. I’ve picked what I believe are good compound exercises with a few isolations for variety/interest, all of which I enjoy doing and am confident I am doing correctly.
 
Tuesday                                    Thursday                        Saturday
Squats                                        Deadlifts                          Squats
Bench/Dumbelll press                  Leg Press                        Close grip lat pulldowns
Chest Press                                 Hamstring Curls              Overhead Press
Dumbell Flys                               Leg Extension                 Bent over rows/rack pull rows
Tricep rope pulldowns                  Calf Raise                        Barbell/Dumbell curl
 
Any comments/suggestions would be very welcome.
 
#1

14 Replies Related Threads

    Bertstare
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/20 21:36:52 (permalink)
    There is a section dedicated to training routines on the site mate, may be better to post in there IMO
    #2
    PAGAN
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/20 22:06:02 (permalink)
     
    6Ft tall and 23 stone? No offence mate but  your not relatively fit for your age. Your morbidly obese and your training spilt is the least of your worries. You seriously need to get some weight off and you should focus on cardio IMO. I'm not trying to be rude I just think you need to face facts and realize at your age how serious your bodyweight is.
     

    No biggie like, there are a lot worse things for you than using steroids, I mean I probably shouldn't have been smoking crack or getting into bar fights at your age TBH  - drab4

    #3
    i like poached eggs
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/20 22:15:56 (permalink)
    Hmmmmm, bad typo on my part, I'm 13 stone NOT 23.
     
    Thanks for the reply, sorry for being dumb, any comments now I've given you my correct weight?
     
    PAGAN

     
    6Ft tall and 23 stone? No offence mate but  your not relatively fit for your age. Your morbidly obese and your training spilt is the least of your worries. You seriously need to get some weight off and you should focus on cardio IMO. I'm not trying to be rude I just think you need to face facts and realize at your age how serious your bodyweight is.



    #4
    johnny bravo
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/20 22:20:45 (permalink)
    .
    post edited by johnny bravo - 2011/03/20 22:45:30

    "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

      JIMMY'S GIMP
    #5
    welshoneder
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/20 22:31:40 (permalink)
    You need to stick to the basics, a 3 day split is ample. Try push, pull, leg spilt
     
    Day 1 :- chest, shoulders, triceps
    Day 2 :- Quads Hams calfs
    Day 3 :- Back, Traps, Biceps
     
    Stick to compound movements for major muscle groups such as bench, shoulder press, deadlift, bent over rows, squats, roman deadlift then isolation exercises for minor groups ie bicep and tricep.
     
    Worked well for me, first 1yr I put on 10-15lbs of muscle and remeber you need to eat, preferabley every 3hrs.
    #6
    johnny bravo
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/20 22:44:12 (permalink)
    Seems ok'ish,
    seems little shoulder work when looking at how you have legs and chest.
    hmmm, dunnow really. I think it could be more evenly balanced out over your body.
    Have you just based the plan around the kit and movements you enjoy.
    There are other very effective 5x5 plans which are proven and quite straight forward, not that yours isnt.
    In fairness if you enjoy the excercise choice you are far more likely to stick with it.

    "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

      JIMMY'S GIMP
    #7
    i like poached eggs
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 08:36:42 (permalink)
    Johnny Bravo, you've hit the nail on the head there, I have based it around the kit I have available and exercises I enjoy and are comfortable with.
     If my plan isn't too far away could you suggest any tweaks to make it better, especially shoulder work if it's lacking.
      
    welshonder, You said I need to stick to the basics, a 3 day split is ample. Try push, pull, leg spilt
     
    Day 1 :- chest, shoulders, triceps
    Day 2 :- Quads Hams calfs
    Day 3 :- Back, Traps, Biceps
     
    I was trying to aim for what you suggest, not sure where I've got it wrong to be honest so I'd appreciate it if you suggested the exercises that fit better.

    I'm no expert but I want to learn and I'm happy to take good advise to modify things to get a good balance so all comments appreciated.


    #8
    CitizenKane
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 11:27:05 (permalink)
    i like poached eggs

    Tuesday                                    Thursday                        Saturday
    Squats                                        Deadlifts                          Squats
    Bench/Dumbelll press                  Leg Press                        Close grip lat pulldowns
    Chest Press                                 Hamstring Curls              Overhead Press
    Dumbell Flys                               Leg Extension                 Bent over rows/rack pull rows
    Tricep rope pulldowns                  Calf Raise                        Barbell/Dumbell curl

     
    i like poached eggs
    welshonder, You said I need to stick to the basics, a 3 day split is ample. Try push, pull, leg spilt

    Day 1 :- chest, shoulders, triceps
    Day 2 :- Quads Hams calfs
    Day 3 :- Back, Traps, Biceps

    I was trying to aim for what you suggest, not sure where I've got it wrong to be honest

     
    Eh... wut? There is absolutely no correlation between what you have suggested and a body part split. In your routine you have:
     
    Day 1 - Legs, Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
    Day 2 - Legs, Back
    Day 3 - Legs, Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Back, Biceps
     
    It should be glaringly obvious where you have gone wrong, unless you don't know which muscle groups are hit by which exercises, in which case you should take a look here: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html , but even then it should be blatantly obvious to you that chest pressing and squatting work entirely different parts of the body and so if you are doing a body part split and separating your legs on one day and your chest and shoulders on another day then those exercises shouldn't be on the same day.
     
    Having said that I already gave you advice in your other thread and you didn't seem to acknowledge it so who knows if you are even paying attention to what I'm saying.
    post edited by CitizenKane - 2011/03/21 11:30:30

    "Be adequate"
     
    #9
    i like poached eggs
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 13:42:42 (permalink)
    CitizenKane, thanks for your reply it's much appreciated.
     
    I think you are bang on, I don't fully understand what muscle groups are hit by what exercises, I will go away and read the link you put up which at a quick glance is just the kind of information I need to read and digest. Maybe I've read too much in too short a space of time and got confused between a split and all over routine.
     
    When I get a better understanding I will try again, hopefully I will be a lot closer.
     
    I'm new to weights (played lots of sport in the past, done tons of cardio too but never lifted weights until very recently), I do want to learn and I appreciate you taking the time to post a very helpful reply.
     
    Thanks again
    #10
    CitizenKane
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 13:52:01 (permalink)
    It depends what you're after, but if you want to do a full body routine (hitting each muscle in your body in each session with low volume of exercises, three times a week) then I'd recommend the kind of routine I suggested in your other thread.
     
    But if you want to do a body part split (hitting each muscle in your body just once a week with higher volume of exercises), then you can't really go wrong with a 'push/pull/legs' routine which is what welshoneder suggested. An example would be:
     
    Tuesday - 'Push' (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)
    Bench Press
    Overhead Press
    Dips
    Skull Crushers
     
    Thursday - 'Pull' (Back/Biceps)
    Deadlift
    Bent-Over Rows
    Chin Ups
    Curls
     
    Saturday - 'Legs'
    Squat
    Romanian Deadlift
    Lunges
    Calves
     
    Something like that would be ideal. Notice whether you do this or a full body routine the net result per week is the same in terms of how much you are hitting each body part, the only variable is frequency and volume. It's much of a muchness really.

    "Be adequate"
     
    #11
    i like poached eggs
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 15:07:59 (permalink)
    Thanks for that, CitizenKane.
    I've had a prolonged skive at work and read up on these exercises and muscle groups and get the routine and what it's trying to achieve.
     
    I have a couple of concerns with it and would like to substitute a few exercises with hopefully like for like ones to make it work better for me.
     
    I have a particular problem with skull crushers and any tricep exercise involving elbows in the pointing up and weight lowered behind due an old injury, I simply can't take the weight with my left elbow, for triceps is a rope pulldown an effective swap? I can do these or cable pushdowns OK. If this isn't a good substitute can you advise one please?
     
    I'm not quite strong enough to do any significant number of dips, is there anything I can do to build strength for now and move onto them later or should I just get on and do as many as I can and work up? (suspect the latter is the right answer)
     
    Same with chin ups, struggle to do more than a couple, would close grip lat pulldowns (or something else) help work up to them or again should I just get on with them? (suspect the latter is the right answer)
     
    One last question, should lunges be done with dumbells or a barbell? I imagine they would be easier with dumbells from a balance point of view, therefore I imagine they are more effective using a barbell.
     
    Thanks again for your help so far, I feel I have learnt a fair bit from the replies to my questions on this forum and have got the confidence to start a good routine that will allow me to achieve my goals.
     
     
     
    post edited by i like poached eggs - 2011/03/21 15:09:13
    #12
    CitizenKane
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 15:16:22 (permalink)
    Oh yeah I should have mentioned this really, each day of that routine consists of 3 compound movements and an isolation at the end, ie. skull crushers. To be honest these are not critical, they will not make or break your gains, they serve merely to, I suppose, finish off a muscle group if you so desire. So in that sense I'd say the isolations I listed in that routine are basically interchangable for anything really, so long as you pick one that hits either chest, triceps or shoulders on push day, back or biceps on pull day, etc. So instead of skull crushers you could do cable pushdowns, dumbbell flyes, lateral raises, whatever you fancy. Alternatively you could just not do any isolations at the end and just focus on the compounds.
     
    As for Dips, if you can't do them I would be inclined to replace them with close grip bench press, but it's not ideal as dips tend to hit your chest and shoulders a lot more than the latter. So I would just suggest try working up as much as you can! If you want to, you could do Dips before Overhead pressing so your triceps and delts are fresher and you'll be able to do more.
     
    As for chin ups, same deal really but you can replace them with lat pulldowns and it's much of a muchness.
     
    Lunges - either or. DBs are fine until your grip because an issue, but this probably won't be for a while!

    "Be adequate"
     
    #13
    i like poached eggs
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 16:11:33 (permalink)
    Nice comprehensive reply that answers my questions nicely, brilliant thanks.
     
    Going to get started on that this week, will go with the routine as you suggested and alternate order of dips/overhead press 1st/2nd each week if that makes sense. Idea being to strengthen my dips but not at the expense of being to knackered to worthwhile overhead presses.
     
    Will also alternate chin ups with close lat pulls week by week as that seems to be reasonable.
     
    As you say the isolations aren't truly necessary I think I will rotate them like for like to give a bit of variety and keep it more interesting. ie one from cable pushdowns/dumbbell flyes/lateral raises on push days, one from curls/preachers/hammers on pull days.
     
    SO, modified version below, does this now look OK to start tomorrow?
     
    Tuesday - 'Push' (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps)
    Bench Press
    Overhead Press/Dips (week1)
    Dips/Overhead Press (week 2)
    cable pushdowns/dumbbell flyes/lateral raises (1 a week alternating) 
    Thursday - 'Pull' (Back/Biceps)
    Deadlift
    Bent-Over Rows
    Chin Ups/Close lat pulldowns (1 a week alternating) 
    Curls/preachers/hammers  (1 a week alternating) 
    Saturday - 'Legs'
    Squat
    Romanian Deadlift
    Lunges
    Calves
    Thanks again for your patience, maybe one day I'll understand enough to be able to help somebody else like this.
     
     
    post edited by i like poached eggs - 2011/03/21 16:13:37
    #14
    johnny bravo
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    Re:Please have a read and comment, any help appreciated 2011/03/21 16:29:22 (permalink)
    very good suggestions from CK for you there poached egg,
    had thought about this today and had come back to answer you better but there is nothing really to add to what CK has put.
    TBH mate there are endless routines and methods, upper lower split, 3 day split, 4 day split.... and on, then you have things like full body 5x5 or GVT its endless.
    The above from CK is really good and you can substitute movements that you prefer as long as you stick with the basic premis and build the routine around compound movements as he suggests.
    I Dorians type of training method but if you are new to the weights HIT may be something to build up over time.
    5x5 is a great start point (that you could stick with forever if you wished) simple enough but very effective.
     
    As for the dips, try across bench dips,
    they are a good excersise and you can start easy with feet on the floor, then progress to feet up on another bench and even add weight to your lap over time. Good old school movement that with build your tri's well.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/bench-dips
     
     Some vids showing Dorians training methods and excersises to give you something to watch.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian-yates-blood-guts-6-week-trainer.htm
     
    oh and enjoy you gym time.

    "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.   Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

      JIMMY'S GIMP
    #15
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