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Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!!

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npotts
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2006/07/13 15:55:46 (permalink)
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Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!!

Hi all
Firstly to give you experts some background:

I have been training now 3-4 times a week for 18 months. My initial goal was to lose weight (fat), and I dropped from 14stone (196lbs) to 11stone 4 (158lbs) over the space of twelve months, which was exactly what I wanted to do. The last six months I have moved from weight loss to trying to build muscle and essentially gain weight (albeit not fat like I had before but muscle)....

To assist my program, I have been drinking protein shakes (namely Maximuscle Promax - three scoops per day), and have been also using Methoxy-Max. I am also watching my diet like a hawk to keep the fat away!!

Ive noticed that in the last month I have put on about 8lbs. The thing is though, I noticed that I am definately carrying more fat around my waist. I am beginning to wonder whether the extra weight is mostly fat from the shakes, as they do come with a note on the back explaining that if not corrently used, fat gains will occur.

Basically, I am hoping you guys can offer some advice. I am only starting to understand weight-training, and have alot to learn. I am very keen though, and do work out 'hard' every time I go. Do you think I need to adjust the way I drink these shakes (I usually nail all three scoops straight after I work out), or am I using the wrong one? Should I be combining something with it like Creatine? Or would I be better with leaving the shakes and doing something else - Ive heard raw whites from eggs can be used to help gain muscle....

Thanks in advance for any advice. I appreciate this is probably a very large can of worms I have just opened.

Nick Potts
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/13 16:05:54 (permalink)
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    Well to gain weight you normally need a calorie surplus, and to lose weight you need a calorie deficit. So now you have lost the fat and want to gain muscle you will need more calories to gain the muscle mass then you did when your aim was to lose fat. It is normal to gain some fat while 'bulking' but this can be controlled by monitoring your food intakes and adjusting accordingly with the results you see, thus trying to add more of a lean bulk. It might be a case of reducing your carbohydrates for example if you are gaining too much fat.
    Supplementation may not be needed.
    Best bet is to post up your diet so people can advice, and also your training routine.
    #2
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/13 16:06:51 (permalink)
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    hey, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your successes so far!

    raw whites n protein shakes eh?

    have a read at this article, long read, but definitely worth it:

    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Building_your_House_%2D_New_to_the_gym%3F/m_1101455/tm.htm
    #3
    npotts
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/13 16:37:37 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the quick replies guys, and thanks for that link BeginnerBoy, I will read that with great interest.

    Regarding my diet and workout, here is a summary of the type of week I might have (bear with me hear, as like I mention, I am still very much a beginner!!):

    Here is my typical day:
    First meal of the day is cereal for breakfast at 7am, nothing exciting, just a large bowl. I will then eat again at 10am, usually a breakfast oatmeal bar with a banana. At lunchtime (about 12.30pm), I will then eat a large Tuna Sandwich, and possibly also a bowl of healthy soup. In the afternoon, I quite often curb any hunger with nuts or seeds. At around 5pm, I am in the gym ready to work out (4 times a week on average, and only during the working week. Weekends I tend to relax or do some light cardio excercises such as surfing or even cycling).

    I will usually spend about 1hr 30mins in the gym. I will always take my Methoxy-Max before I go into the gym. My workout nearly always involves 20 minutes on a cardio machine to warm up, 50 minutes on the weights, and then 20 minutes on the cardio to warm down. Depending on the day of the week, I will mix up the weights and excercises to specifically target one of the following:

    Biceps
    Triceps
    Chest
    Back
    Shoulders

    I dont as a rule have any specific weight routines for my legs, as I feel with surfing and cycling, my legs are relatively toned and not an area I am looking to focus on during the next 12 months. I will nearly always do the time though as mentioned above. Maybe this is where I am going wrong - is it a good idea to mix up my workout time?

    After the workout, I will occasionally have a gentle swim or relaxation in the jacuzzi. I will always have the protein shake when I get back to my locker as per the manufacturers guidelines (3-4 scoops per 500ml water for 1-2lb weight gain per week).

    When I get home, I will then have a large healthy meal, usually consisting of meat and veg, and possible some potatoe (although not usually a great deal of potatoe). If I dont have any veg, I will often eat meat with rice or pasta. With the training, its usually about 7.30pm before I eat this meal (about an hour after I finish my workout).

    I may have another bowl of cereal at about 9pm to once again curb my hunger, but apart from that, its pretty strict throughout the week. I will only drink water during the day and evening with the exception of Saturday night, when I will go out and let my hair down with some beers!

    Do you think this sort of regime is adequte enough for achieving muscle weight gain? Do I need to up the calories? I think I am still struggling to come to terms with consuming 'alot' more calories after spending 12 months keeping my intake down, although I appreciate they are required for muscle gain.

    Thanks again for your advice guys. Im pleased I found this site! No doubt I can learn alot from you boys...

    Cheers

    Nick

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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/13 19:00:15 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: npotts

    Thanks for the quick replies guys, and thanks for that link BeginnerBoy, I will read that with great interest.

    Regarding my diet and workout, here is a summary of the type of week I might have (bear with me hear, as like I mention, I am still very much a beginner!!):

    Here is my typical day:
    First meal of the day is cereal for breakfast at 7am, nothing exciting, just a large bowl. I will then eat again at 10am, usually a breakfast oatmeal bar with a banana. At lunchtime (about 12.30pm), I will then eat a large Tuna Sandwich, and possibly also a bowl of healthy soup. In the afternoon, I quite often curb any hunger with nuts or seeds. At around 5pm, I am in the gym ready to work out (4 times a week on average, and only during the working week. Weekends I tend to relax or do some light cardio excercises such as surfing or even cycling).

    I will usually spend about 1hr 30mins in the gym. I will always take my Methoxy-Max before I go into the gym. My workout nearly always involves 20 minutes on a cardio machine to warm up, 50 minutes on the weights, and then 20 minutes on the cardio to warm down. Depending on the day of the week, I will mix up the weights and excercises to specifically target one of the following:

    Biceps
    Triceps
    Chest
    Back
    Shoulders

    I dont as a rule have any specific weight routines for my legs, as I feel with surfing and cycling, my legs are relatively toned and not an area I am looking to focus on during the next 12 months. I will nearly always do the time though as mentioned above. Maybe this is where I am going wrong - is it a good idea to mix up my workout time?

    After the workout, I will occasionally have a gentle swim or relaxation in the jacuzzi. I will always have the protein shake when I get back to my locker as per the manufacturers guidelines (3-4 scoops per 500ml water for 1-2lb weight gain per week).

    When I get home, I will then have a large healthy meal, usually consisting of meat and veg, and possible some potatoe (although not usually a great deal of potatoe). If I dont have any veg, I will often eat meat with rice or pasta. With the training, its usually about 7.30pm before I eat this meal (about an hour after I finish my workout).

    I may have another bowl of cereal at about 9pm to once again curb my hunger, but apart from that, its pretty strict throughout the week. I will only drink water during the day and evening with the exception of Saturday night, when I will go out and let my hair down with some beers!

    Do you think this sort of regime is adequte enough for achieving muscle weight gain? Do I need to up the calories? I think I am still struggling to come to terms with consuming 'alot' more calories after spending 12 months keeping my intake down, although I appreciate they are required for muscle gain.

    Thanks again for your advice guys. Im pleased I found this site! No doubt I can learn alot from you boys...

    Cheers

    Nick




    Well I think the last thing you want to do is go for a full on bulk because the extra fat/water gains could be very disappointing given the fact you have just lost a lot of weight. Most people say you either bulk or you cut which is true, but you can do them to certain degrees. You want to gain muscle so therefore a calorie surplus is usually needed. You will need to carefully monitor your progress along with your training and diet to see where to adjust to met your goals of a lean bulk. This could be an ongoing process.
    Your diet is pretty poor and needs a lot of work. Best thing to do is post up your diet in the diet section in the following format:

    E.G

    7:00 cereal, banana, 2 slices of toast
    10:00 chicken breast, medium sized baked potato, side salad

    Etc..


    State your goals is to add muscle mass with as much minimal fat gains. Also say what your stats are e.g. age, how long you have been exercising for, how active you are during the day apart from the gym, what type pf routine you will be following etc.. all this will help people give you the best advice.
    Supplements can be added on top of a good diet, but you have by no means a good diet and shouldnt be relying on supplements for your macro/micronutrient requirements

    As for the training you could go for a three day all body workout, or a split of some kind. Three day splits can be good, usually split into push, pull, leg muscle groups e.g

    Monday

    Deadlifts
    Bentover row
    Chins
    Dumbell curls
    Hammer curls

    Tuesday

    Light intensity cardio 60mins

    Wednesday

    Benchpress
    Shoulderpress
    Dips
    Narrowgrip benchpress
    Skullcrushers

    Thursday

    Light intensity cardio 60mins

    Friday

    Squats
    Leg curls
    Standing calve raises
    Seated calves raises

    Toning is down cardio and diet remember, you can not train a muscle to be more ‘toned’ as muscles either grow or they don’t. So best rep range is probably 6-8 , with 3-4 sets for muscle growth
    There are a lot of other routines out there though so have a look around the forum for ideas.





    post edited by Cheshire Cat - 2006/07/13 19:18:45
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    npotts
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/14 08:59:21 (permalink)
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    Hey thanks CheshireCat - there is some great advice there. Interesting to hear that my diet isnt very good (and I thought I was eating quite well)!! I will post my diet in the section you mentioned to see if anyone can assist there.

    Regarding your suggestions about the training, I noticed that on Wednesday you suggest doing the following:

    Benchpress
    Shoulderpress
    Dips
    Narrowgrip benchpress
    Skullcrushers

    Which seems to be an overall upper body workout. I have always trained (probably incorrectly) on one area each session. For example, on Monday, I might train Biceps, so I would just do excercises focusing on that area of my body. Tuesday, I might do shoulders, so again would concentrate on shoulder only excercises. Is this a mistake in your opinion? Should I be mixing up the areas each session?

    Thanks again!

    Nick
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/14 10:47:47 (permalink)
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    The routine I outlined about is what you call a 3 day -push, pull, leg split. So the exercises on the wednesday are the push muscle groups, monday is the pull, and friday legs.
    That is by no means the only routine out there, and if you look at the stickys at the top of the routine section of the furom there are ideas of diferent routines. Best to choose one which is best for your goals and liftstyle, but I think a three day split like the one above could work nicely.
    The problem in doing one body part each day is you might start to over train smaller muscles. For example if you hammer your biceps with sets up on sets of isolated movements, then train back a few days later the biceps may have not had enough time to recover which can be very anti-productive.
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    npotts
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/14 11:01:02 (permalink)
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    Thanks CheshireCat, that makes perfect sense. I think I will spend several hours looking over a lot of the stickys on each section.
    Im clearly over-training certain area's by the sounds of things. I like the idea of a Pull, push leg split.

    Im so glad I searched for this site!! It will make a big difference to the way I train, eat and rest to get to my next goal.

    Nick
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/14 11:12:49 (permalink)
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    shouldnt this be in the 'diet & nutrition' or 'bodybuilding suppliments' section.

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    Fuzzi_Bear
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/14 11:56:12 (permalink)
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    Why? He was asking for general advice, not specifically about protein shakes.
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    RE: Protein Shakes - Advice Needed!! 2006/07/14 12:12:18 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Cheshire Cat

    Why? He was asking for general advice, not specifically about protein shakes.

    Oh, my mistake. Thought he was asking specifically about protein shakes.

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    Fuzzi_Bear
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