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Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol

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Rosso
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2006/07/18 19:28:11 (permalink)
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Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol

hi there guys. I am planning to start my 2nd cycle soon. Doing Sustanon 500mg + Deca 400 mg per week x 8 weeks and Dbol 30mg each day in week 1 - 4. From what I gather Dbol can be a b*itch when it comes to water retention. I am going to take Proviron 50mg each day to combat that. My question is, how effective will it be ? In my 1st cycle I had Sus 500 & Deca 400mg each week x 8 weeks, with Proviron 50mg each day and it worked fine. Although i still had some water retention and was a tiny bit bloated in the end I wasn't half as bad as I thought it would be. I dont want to be TOO obviously bloated coz the combination of the puffiness, the acne, and the gain in mass ( i hope ) would make it too obvious that I am on steroids ( especially since I am working among health care profs )
Thanks !
#1

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    Medichecks
    Irish Beast
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/18 20:55:22 (permalink)
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    50mg should still be enough my friend. It might not be possible to keep all water retention of so just take the prov, drink loads of water and you'll be fine

    Moderator@ Underground Muscle
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    #2
    V1nce
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/18 23:38:29 (permalink)
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    Taking Dbol and Proviron is counter productive. You will waste a lot of money. The reason dbol is preferred over any other oral is the fact that is so good, but taking proviron and reducing the water retention will reduce its effect severely. If yu dont want the water then try Tbol or something else
    #3
    Backhouse
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/18 23:43:14 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    Taking Dbol and Proviron is counter productive. You will waste a lot of money. The reason dbol is preferred over any other oral is the fact that is so good, but taking proviron and reducing the water retention will reduce its effect severely. If yu dont want the water then try Tbol or something else


    Can you explain how that works? ie why would the fact that dbol leads to a fair amount of water retention be its redeming feature?
    #4
    CoVetous
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/18 23:52:11 (permalink)
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    i would extend the test 2 more weeks for a total of 10 weeks
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    Rosso
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/19 00:49:00 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    Taking Dbol and Proviron is counter productive. You will waste a lot of money. The reason dbol is preferred over any other oral is the fact that is so good, but taking proviron and reducing the water retention will reduce its effect severely. If yu dont want the water then try Tbol or something else


    is Tbol as good? what other alternatives ?
    #6
    V1nce
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/19 09:10:21 (permalink)
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    The water retention from dbol produces massive and immediate gains in strength. This is the redeeming feature of dbol.

    Tbol is a good alternative without the water. Tbol is probably bestfor this situation
    #7
    Rosso
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/19 18:38:15 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    The water retention from dbol produces massive and immediate gains in strength. This is the redeeming feature of dbol.

    Tbol is a good alternative without the water. Tbol is probably bestfor this situation


    Is Tbol's effectiveness affected by proviron at all ?
    #8
    Backhouse
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/19 22:53:35 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    The water retention from dbol produces massive and immediate gains in strength. This is the redeeming feature of dbol.

    Tbol is a good alternative without the water. Tbol is probably bestfor this situation


    Water retention does not directly equate to strength gains therefore if water retention is controlled whilst using this med it will not lose iots effectiveness.
    #9
    V1nce
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/20 00:16:53 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Backhouse
    Water retention does not directly equate to strength gains therefore if water retention is controlled whilst using this med it will not lose iots effectiveness.


    Yes it does
    #10
    Backhouse
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/20 00:22:15 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: V1nce


    ORIGINAL: Backhouse
    Water retention does not directly equate to strength gains therefore if water retention is controlled whilst using this med it will not lose iots effectiveness.


    Yes it does


    Explain
    #11
    V1nce
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/20 00:40:34 (permalink)
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    More water in the muscle cells will mean more leverage and more strength
    post edited by V1nce - 2006/07/20 00:41:15
    #12
    Backhouse
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/20 22:56:23 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    More water in the muscle cells will mean more leverage and more strength


    OK so if thats the case then according to your initial theory using Proviron would be counter productive when also using other AAS such as test.
    We all know that not the case.
    #13
    spirit_servant
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/20 23:48:49 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Backhouse


    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    More water in the muscle cells will mean more leverage and more strength


    OK so if thats the case then according to your initial theory using Proviron would be counter productive when also using other AAS such as test.
    We all know that not the case.


    Backhouse mate, I actually thought V1nce is correct to some degree. I know some say that proviron will actually improve gains through SHGB binding (inc. free test levels) but in general I believed estrogen plays a major part in anabolism. Hence reducing estrogen reduces actual muscle mass gains (as well as water and fat gain). This is why aromatisers leave you with more lean muscle (once you remove water and fat) than non-aromatisers.

    Try a test cycle with aromasin and adex and then one with no anti-aromatase and see what you think (especially with regard to strength gain as this is what was questioned).
    #14
    Irish Beast
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/21 09:45:03 (permalink)
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    Water retention can lead to temporary strength gains for the reasons above. When the water goes you may well lose the strength. Welcome to the world of bodybuilding!!!

    Back to the original question, 50mg will be fine.

    As for dbol and prov being counterproductive, i have not read anything about this so will not comment (if anyone has a link to the evidence i'm sure all us MT memebers would love to see it).

    Thing is if your prone to carrying water then you dont have much choice. Its the worst feeling in the world feeling like a fat cnt even tho your killling yourself in the gym!! Take the prov and carry out the course as planned.

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    #15
    MattyG
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/21 11:09:13 (permalink)
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    I'd love to see it too ...

    Been on cycle for 9 weeks now;

    250 sust + 150 tren e3d along with 25/50 prov a day depending on appearence.

    ... been on dbol a week now and big strength increase even on 50 prov a day! I still seem to be gaining water and weight fast though ... 4lbs in 6 days on top of the water i was already holding from the test.
    #16
    V1nce
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/21 11:11:15 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Backhouse

    OK so if thats the case then according to your initial theory using Proviron would be counter productive when also using other AAS such as test.
    We all know that not the case.


    Test does not cause anywhere near as much wtaer retention as dbol and is certainly not its reedeming feature.

    I never said dbol wont work with proviron or that any AAS wont work, but simply that the effectiveness of dbol may be be affected.
    #17
    MattyG
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/21 11:18:15 (permalink)
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    Dbol is a v cheap med for its results so even if prov affected it slightly don't think i'd be that worried.
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    Backhouse
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/21 17:19:09 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: spirit_servant


    ORIGINAL: Backhouse


    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    More water in the muscle cells will mean more leverage and more strength


    OK so if thats the case then according to your initial theory using Proviron would be counter productive when also using other AAS such as test.
    We all know that not the case.


    Backhouse mate, I actually thought V1nce is correct to some degree. I know some say that proviron will actually improve gains through SHGB binding (inc. free test levels) but in general I believed estrogen plays a major part in anabolism. Hence reducing estrogen reduces actual muscle mass gains (as well as water and fat gain). This is why aromatisers leave you with more lean muscle (once you remove water and fat) than non-aromatisers.

    Try a test cycle with aromasin and adex and then one with no anti-aromatase and see what you think (especially with regard to strength gain as this is what was questioned).



    I see what youre saying mate and i also believe that oestogen plays a part in anabolism.
    BBs often report better gains when not using an AI or AE but it would interesting if you could measure how much of this extra gain was simply water. Obviously this water weight is lost post cycle and tissue gain is evident.
    Aromasin is something i havent used although i now use, and have used for some time, Proviron or Adex with every cycle. TBH the dosages i use would make it impossible to cycle without these meds as i am prone to gyno.
    Really, my intial post was aimed at the fact that dbol use alongside proviron was not counterproductive because dbol, as a med, has more effect than working as simply a water retainer.
    If water was a prime indicator to how much strength a med produces then why do meds such a tren, winnie and primo, which hold little or no water produce such a great increase in strength?
    post edited by Backhouse - 2006/07/21 17:27:12
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    spirit_servant
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    RE: Proviron 50mg for water retention on dbol 2006/07/21 22:39:04 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Backhouse

    ORIGINAL: spirit_servant


    ORIGINAL: Backhouse


    ORIGINAL: V1nce

    More water in the muscle cells will mean more leverage and more strength


    OK so if thats the case then according to your initial theory using Proviron would be counter productive when also using other AAS such as test.
    We all know that not the case.


    Backhouse mate, I actually thought V1nce is correct to some degree. I know some say that proviron will actually improve gains through SHGB binding (inc. free test levels) but in general I believed estrogen plays a major part in anabolism. Hence reducing estrogen reduces actual muscle mass gains (as well as water and fat gain). This is why aromatisers leave you with more lean muscle (once you remove water and fat) than non-aromatisers.

    Try a test cycle with aromasin and adex and then one with no anti-aromatase and see what you think (especially with regard to strength gain as this is what was questioned).



    I see what youre saying mate and i also believe that oestogen plays a part in anabolism.
    BBs often report better gains when not using an AI or AE but it would interesting if you could measure how much of this extra gain was simply water. Obviously this water weight is lost post cycle and tissue gain is evident.
    Aromasin is something i havent used although i now use, and have used for some time, Proviron or Adex with every cycle. TBH the dosages i use would make it impossible to cycle without these meds as i am prone to gyno.
    Really, my intial post was aimed at the fact that dbol use alongside proviron was not counterproductive because dbol, as a med, has more effect than working as simply a water retainer.
    If water was a prime indicator to how much strength a med produces then why do meds such a tren, winnie and primo, which hold little or no water produce such a great increase in strength?


    Yes I agree. The increases in strength from Winstrol, Primo and especially Tren (which is mg for mg far more potent than test etc,) are not comparable to strength gains from Test, D-bol, Oxys etc. This is because they aromatise.

    I know this example is flawed but lets look at injectable D-bol and EQ. Structurally identical with the exception that D-bol is C17aa, meaning it is MUCH more easily aromatised, meaning more estrogen, meaning more water. There's a incredible difference in mass gains (minus water) and strength.

    I know you have not entirely disagreed with me mate. This is just for the number of posters who have said that estrogen only produces water and fat and it's fine to run anti-aromatases on cycle with no mass gaining consequences, only water.
    #20
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