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Helpful ReplyHot!Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells

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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/23 18:48:14 (permalink)
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Furious D
 
Yeah something like could happen, but you could probably correct that issue easy enough.
 
I'm getting these
 
https://www.thegymrevolution.co.uk/index.php/bars-weights/fixed-dumbbells/pro-style-dumbbells/chd-pro-style-dumbbell-set.html
 
The guy there (Matt) has been very helpful as well.
 
The other place pro bell is welded and it's done here in the UK. A lot more expensive. Again exceptionally helpful with my questions.  
 
http://www.pro-bell.com/
 

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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/23 18:55:46 (permalink)
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doc
I like rubber if you have good floor mats ( really good floor mats) and you have decent people using them , Cast Iron usualy need alot more welding and rust in your eyes , rubber do wear and have bits falling off them .  they would definaltey need a rotating handle , that for me is the most important bit.
 
Rubber you also get a decent bounce when benching or flying , cast iron are a lot more forgiving , but that probably depends on the person.
 
It would probably come down to price , if it was plates they would deffo be cast iron, way too many people drop and break rubber plates 


doc
yeah ive used none rotating bars before , if they are 10kg they are fine, but when you start getting heavier it natrualy wants to turn and to do that you need to relax your grip , which is difficult when flying as everything is under tension , not a fan at all , those dumbells look pretty good to me, like I said for me persoanlly 40kg and below and the rubber dont seem too cumbersome , 45+ and they start getting too wide or thick . dumbell should pressing the 60kg's with rubber was almost impossible as they where hitting my ears or pulling themselves away from my body , very hard to balance , those dumbells in the vid are excellent if you dont have people dropping them , they need lots of welding tacks and ussualy have bit dropping off in your eyes when chest pressing . 
 
as a rue of thumb for me if i can roll a dumbell along the floor as ster it left/rigth without having to pick it up , then its got enough good rotation to use , if i have to pick it up to change its direction to avoid a plate or bench then ill just use a different weight 





I find this confusing. Steering the bell, rolling it doesn't relate to the rotating handle. You could have a fixed handle and roll the bell around a bench couldn't you?   

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Furious D
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/23 21:44:35 (permalink)
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Muscle

I find this confusing. Steering the bell, rolling it doesn't relate to the rotating handle. You could have a fixed handle and roll the bell around a bench couldn't you?   


I don't think so. A solid dumbell with would only roll forwards and backwards, it would be hard to roll it around a curve as that would need the two ends to be rotating at different speeds.

On the other hand you could have a free rotating handle which you still can't steer, if the handle was a sleeve around an otherwise solid weight. In that case the ends would not be able to roll independently.

In doc's example you'd have to have a solid shaft with I depended rotating weights on each end.
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/23 21:47:53 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Muscle 2018/11/25 00:16:20
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The set that you have gone for look good to me. Like a cheaper version of the ivanko ones... I imagine you'd only notice a difference in quality in a commercial setting where they'd be used all day every day. On your own it would probably take a year to rack up a day's worth of commercial wear and tear!
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/23 22:54:06 (permalink)
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I kind of see what your saying, if the handle is fixed you can't steer and if the handle has a sleeve you still can't steer, you need a sleeve either side where the weights go, just like an adjustable Oly handle.
 
Still though we are all in agreement. The people I have spoke to on the phone. On the net here and the conclusion is fixed handles work OK.
 
I have requested a quote for the set and rack I want and the price is £1200 delivered. I will be getting 15kg 20kg 25kg 30kg 35kg 40kg and a small rack which can hold 5 pairs. I will be putting a pair under the rack and any more bigger ones I get there also. It still strikes me as a little much for what it is but that's the price. Compered to some its actually a decent price. 
 
I think this is a better option than the cheapest way of doing it at fitness super store where you assemble them together yourself. The same bells with a rack would have been around £800 there. What is irritating at fitness super store is everytime you go on that site you get an email saying looking for something?  
 
post edited by Muscle - 2018/11/23 22:57:08

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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/24 09:49:32 (permalink)
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Uriel
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Uriel
 
Yes that is what my conclusion is, the rationale for them is eliminating the rotation inertia. But you only get that on the Oly lifts.
 
What if I cleaned the bells from the ground with the bells by the side of legs then did an OHP. Would that then require a rotating handle? 
 
I don't recall doc mentioning regular fixed non rotating dumbbells feel more stable for press and rows? He said he wouldn't buy dumbbells if they didn't have a rotating handle as that is the most important part.
 
I agree with you on curls the handle would want to rotate and it would stress the wrists at a certain weight. But what if you did hammer curls? Is there a need for any rotation there?
 
If I can avoid getting rotating handles I will as the cost is massive compared to regular thread and bolt fixed non rotating handle bells. Also a welded bell is much for money compared to thread and bolt. 


I thought doc was talking about the rotating ones when he mentioned how when they get heavier you have to relax your grip. I personally find bars that rotate too freely a bit awkward to press/row they seem to add another level of instability to the exercise. But like I said I think once you get used to it shouldn't make a difference the physics of a press aren't affected by whether or not the handles


yeah that's exactly what I meant , benching 30 kg dumbbells for feel and it's fine with Jordan fixed , 60kg and I need free rotation, probably person specific to what feels right for who , can't imagine Eddie Hall having to many problems correcting 60kgs mid rep or after his 20th rep but for me if they are fixed I need two people to pass them up in the right positions , curls I do as hammers to avoid this issue, like Uriel said with snatch , try some barbell curls with the clasps too tight so the plates don't spin with just 20kg per side , you'll feel the forearm/wrist pain . I reckon some folk will have enough control to slacken there grip mid rep letting the dumbbell rotate on its own , I just can't manage it with all my gloves , straps and sponges.
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/24 10:24:53 (permalink)
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We have rotational deadlift barbells in the gym, I think these are great, no rolling
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/24 10:35:35 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Muscle 2018/11/25 00:15:42
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Sorry for the late reply Muscle as you've already decided to purchase what look like a great choice.

But for what it's worth no not really I didn't care whether the dumbbells were fixed or rotating, what ever the gym had I used.

The only dumbell handles I found "nice" or more comfortable were the contoured ones which felt nicer in hand although I'm guessing to purchase would come at a premium.
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/24 12:53:48 (permalink)
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Muscle
doc
I like rubber if you have good floor mats ( really good floor mats) and you have decent people using them , Cast Iron usualy need alot more welding and rust in your eyes , rubber do wear and have bits falling off them .  they would definaltey need a rotating handle , that for me is the most important bit.
 
Rubber you also get a decent bounce when benching or flying , cast iron are a lot more forgiving , but that probably depends on the person.
 
It would probably come down to price , if it was plates they would deffo be cast iron, way too many people drop and break rubber plates 


doc
yeah ive used none rotating bars before , if they are 10kg they are fine, but when you start getting heavier it natrualy wants to turn and to do that you need to relax your grip , which is difficult when flying as everything is under tension , not a fan at all , those dumbells look pretty good to me, like I said for me persoanlly 40kg and below and the rubber dont seem too cumbersome , 45+ and they start getting too wide or thick . dumbell should pressing the 60kg's with rubber was almost impossible as they where hitting my ears or pulling themselves away from my body , very hard to balance , those dumbells in the vid are excellent if you dont have people dropping them , they need lots of welding tacks and ussualy have bit dropping off in your eyes when chest pressing . 
 
as a rue of thumb for me if i can roll a dumbell along the floor as ster it left/rigth without having to pick it up , then its got enough good rotation to use , if i have to pick it up to change its direction to avoid a plate or bench then ill just use a different weight 





I find this confusing. Steering the bell, rolling it doesn't relate to the rotating handle. You could have a fixed handle and roll the bell around a bench couldn't you?   


I dont think so , you either need the plates to spin or the handle to do a 90 or 180 degree turn , I just want it to turn on the spot without having ti lift it up the change its direction , if the handle doesnt spin , the plates wonthave any roll
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 00:09:37 (permalink)
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doc
Uriel
Muscle
Uriel
 
Yes that is what my conclusion is, the rationale for them is eliminating the rotation inertia. But you only get that on the Oly lifts.
 
What if I cleaned the bells from the ground with the bells by the side of legs then did an OHP. Would that then require a rotating handle? 
 
I don't recall doc mentioning regular fixed non rotating dumbbells feel more stable for press and rows? He said he wouldn't buy dumbbells if they didn't have a rotating handle as that is the most important part.
 
I agree with you on curls the handle would want to rotate and it would stress the wrists at a certain weight. But what if you did hammer curls? Is there a need for any rotation there?
 
If I can avoid getting rotating handles I will as the cost is massive compared to regular thread and bolt fixed non rotating handle bells. Also a welded bell is much for money compared to thread and bolt. 


I thought doc was talking about the rotating ones when he mentioned how when they get heavier you have to relax your grip. I personally find bars that rotate too freely a bit awkward to press/row they seem to add another level of instability to the exercise. But like I said I think once you get used to it shouldn't make a difference the physics of a press aren't affected by whether or not the handles

 
yeah that's exactly what I meant , benching 30 kg dumbbells for feel and it's fine with Jordan fixed , 60kg and I need free rotation, probably person specific to what feels right for who , can't imagine Eddie Hall having to many problems correcting 60kgs mid rep or after his 20th rep but for me if they are fixed I need two people to pass them up in the right positions , curls I do as hammers to avoid this issue, like Uriel said with snatch , try some barbell curls with the clasps too tight so the plates don't spin with just 20kg per side , you'll feel the forearm/wrist pain . I reckon some folk will have enough control to slacken there grip mid rep letting the dumbbell rotate on its own , I just can't manage it with all my gloves , straps and sponges.



I think we are all in agreement its just regular curls and Oly lifts that need the rotation. That's it from what I can see. Unless the plates want to spin then you don't benefit from the rotational handles. Watson got back back to me and said the same.
 
Do you need the rotation when actually benching or just getting the bells into position? Any other lifts you feel you need it mate? Its just mainly up and down? Even getting them into position is lifted hammer curl style and kicked up?
 
I can't see why most of us would need a rotating handle when benching. It must be an individual thing? 
 
post edited by Muscle - 2018/11/25 00:11:39

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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 00:14:56 (permalink)
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SeanR
We have rotational deadlift barbells in the gym, I think these are great, no rolling




I don't understated this. Done a quick google search and its not what your suggesting. What is a rotational deadlift barbell with no rolling plates?

Follow the evidence wherever it leads - Socrates


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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 07:37:04 (permalink)
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Muscle
SeanR
We have rotational deadlift barbells in the gym, I think these are great, no rolling




I don't understated this. Done a quick google search and its not what your suggesting. What is a rotational deadlift barbell with no rolling plates?


Its an olympic style bar, the thick ends where you put the plates on rotates whilst the part you hold obviously stays static. Must be bearings in the ends.

For dead lifting i find this helps as it stops the roll

As for dumbbells with rotational grip, overkill.,,,,,,,for me anyway
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Furious D
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 07:53:59 (permalink)
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SeanR
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SeanR
We have rotational deadlift barbells in the gym, I think these are great, no rolling




I don't understated this. Done a quick google search and its not what your suggesting. What is a rotational deadlift barbell with no rolling plates?


Its an olympic style bar, the thick ends where you put the plates on rotates whilst the part you hold obviously stays static. Must be bearings in the ends.

For dead lifting i find this helps as it stops the roll

As for dumbbells with rotational grip, overkill.,,,,,,,for me anyway


Unless I'm missing something you've just described all Olympic bars... I've never seen one that didn't have free rotating ends.
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 10:34:52 (permalink)
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Furious D
SeanR
Muscle
SeanR
We have rotational deadlift barbells in the gym, I think these are great, no rolling




I don't understated this. Done a quick google search and its not what your suggesting. What is a rotational deadlift barbell with no rolling plates?


Its an olympic style bar, the thick ends where you put the plates on rotates whilst the part you hold obviously stays static. Must be bearings in the ends.

For dead lifting i find this helps as it stops the roll

As for dumbbells with rotational grip, overkill.,,,,,,,for me anyway


Unless I'm missing something you've just described all Olympic bars... I've never seen one that didn't have free rotating ends.


You might be right, the old ones we had for years dont rotate tho, perhaps seized up. The two new ones do
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 16:01:12 (permalink)
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Muscle
 
I can't see why most of us would need a rotating handle when benching. It must be an individual thing? 
 




They will want to turn even when benching , even if it's only ever so slightly , the fact you hook the bar back on the rack and press it further forward (more in front of you ) and that's about 1 cm's worth of rotation , same reason so many have problems with smith machine benching , with the clamps wanting to hook back over mid rep or not being able to gook it back on . I would agree with the statement about , you only need rotation if the plates/handle want to spin, but for steering them around the gym , they would want to spin 
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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 16:26:18 (permalink)
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What if using dumbbells though. Its only dumbbells I am referring to with this protenal issue.
I understand the problem of racking and unracking a barbell which is fixed. I didn't think anyone used a fix barbell when benching, I thought everyone would use an Oly bar.
Do you have a problem with fixed bells while benching / getting them into position.
I have emailed many places and spoke to folks on the phone as well. York barbell supplies their fixed handle dumbbells to the armed forces, police, lots of places and there is no issue there. Everyone YouTube. The pros using fixed handle bells, just can't be an issue.

Follow the evidence wherever it leads - Socrates


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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/25 19:44:16 (permalink)
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I cant see why the plates want to spin at all while doing mainly an up and down movement. Not saying you dont feel it mate, but if the likes of Ivanko use fixed dumbbells it just cant effect most people. If you had the bells passed to you like you said, is a problem while doing the moment then? What about other movements with dumbbells, lunges, rows anything else.

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Re: Rubber dumbbells vs cast iron dumbbells 2018/11/30 18:33:32 (permalink)
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Doc
 
Reread what you said. I understand what you mean. I remember me using fixed adjustable bells right back when I first started actually, so I know I should be OK. Ordered the dumbbells from the gym revolution should have them in 2 weeks.     

Follow the evidence wherever it leads - Socrates


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