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Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine...

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Scourge_of_God
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2003/12/23 23:32:45 (permalink)

Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine...

This seems like a better place to put a routine to-be than the Journals section... What do y'all think?

Before you say it - I know there is a lot of work to there, but I reckon volume works well for me... Apart from that, does anyone have any suggestions, complaints or general comments?
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    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/23 23:33:21 (permalink)
    Routine... (MK IV)

    Two day split. I will probably be told it looks like a bastardised Westside routine. Lifting sessions will either be designated max. effort (ME) or speed/power (SP) days. On ME days, one lift will be trained with 3 progressive singles, ideally to (failure -1) in addition to some warm-up sets to get me there. On SP days, a number of lifts will be done with the focus on speed i.e. low reps, high sets, low weight, trying to accelerate the bar as fast as possible. On both days, all other exercises will be performed with 3-6 reps, 4-8 sets, 60-90% of my target 1RM (for the big 3 lifts) or as an absolute weight (in kg).

    Session 1: Squat/deadlift ME1
    Back squat (ME)
    Box deadlift
    Kneeling squats
    Glute-ham raise (or ham curls if I can't find a training partner)
    Goodmornings

    Session 2: Bench ME1
    Bench (ME) (regular/block/bottom-position?)
    Ultra-wide bench
    Bent-over rows
    Chin-ups
    Abs

    Session 3: Squat/deadlift ME2
    Deadlift (ME)
    Front squat
    Power clean (SP singles)
    Calf raises
    Goodmornings

    Session 4: Bench ME2
    Bench (Regular/block/bottom-position?)
    Incline press (ME)
    Bent-over rows
    Chin-ups
    Abs

    Session 5: Squat/deadlift ME3
    Box squat
    Goodmornings (ME)
    Kneeling squat
    Rack pulls
    Glute-Ham raises

    Session 6: Bench ME3
    Shoulder press (ME)
    One-handed barbell see-saw press
    Bent-over rows
    Chin-ups
    Abs

    Session 7: Squat/deadlift SP1
    Box squat (SP)
    Power cleans (SP singles)
    One-handed barbell snatch (SP singles)

    Session 8: Bench SP1
    Bottom-position bench (SP)
    Block press
    One-handed barbell bicep curl

    Repeat...

    I hope this will be the last modification I make to my routine, unless anyone else can find something wrong with it... Anyone?
    #2
    Sheeps_Clothing
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/24 18:13:42 (permalink)
    Squat (ME)
    Goodmornings
    One-handed box deadlift
    Kneeling squat
    Glute-ham raises
    box step ups

    Session 2: Bench ME1
    Bench (ME)- cycle different benches, off pins, different board height
    close grip bench work
    Bent-over rows
    Abs

    Session 3: Squat/deadlift ME2
    Goodmorning variation - chains, wide, narrow etc
    Zercher squat
    Calf raises ( helpful for the walkout)


    Session 4: Bench ME2
    Bench - cycle
    Shoulder press
    tricep work
    Chin-ups
    Abs

    Session 5: Squat/deadlift ME3
    Goodmornings (ME)
    Front squat
    Kneeling squat
    Glute-Ham raises

    Session 6: Bench ME3
    Incline press (ME)
    One-handed barbell see-saw press
    Skullcrushers
    Bent-over rows
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Session 7: Squat/deadlift SP1
    Box squat (SP)
    Power cleans (SP singles)
    One-handed barbell snatch (SP singles)
    overhead squat / snatch balance

    Session 8: Bench SP1
    Bottom-position bench (SP)
    Block press (SP)
    Dips
    One-handed barbell bicep curl

    #3
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/24 18:21:51 (permalink)
    Badboy007 - You recommend goodmornings before squats on a number of days. Why's that?

    A quick explanation of your reasoning for the other changes would be nice if you have time...
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    Jake P
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/25 18:20:57 (permalink)
    just a couple questions and comments


    do you do military press standing? it works core much better, but u do have a lot of volume so it might be a better idea sitting to avoiding overtraining, just thought id bring up the idea

    why do u do leg presses? it seems like there are better excersizes you could substiture for this, but whatever floats your boat.

    whats a block press?

    it seems the calf raises arent very useful and just take up your energy.

    i will post more ideas in the future but i have to run right now.
    #5
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/25 18:33:32 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jake P

    do you do military press standing? it works core much better, but u do have a lot of volume so it might be a better idea sitting to avoiding overtraining, just thought id bring up the idea


    Overhead presses are done standing up. Can't stand (excuse the pun...) doing them any other way.
    quote:

    why do u do leg presses? it seems like there are better excersizes you could substiture for this, but whatever floats your boat.


    Because you can use lots of weight while doing them and because I was looking for another exercise which I could use to train my legs, variety being the spice of life and all. That said, I've dropped at least one set of leg presses in favour of power cleans. What would be your suggestions for better exercises?
    quote:

    whats a block press?


    You balance a big block of wood or whatever on your chest while you do bench press. The bar will touch down on the block so it will come to rest several inches above your chest. Good for triceps.
    quote:

    it seems the calf raises arent very useful and just take up your energy.


    I've heard that and I've heard the opposite as well. As i've only got them once per fortnight or so, they won't waste too much time if they're useless.
    quote:

    i will post more ideas in the future but i have to run right now.


    Thanks...
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    Sheeps_Clothing
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/25 19:24:11 (permalink)
    sorry mate, i feel that a strong good morning is essential,, westside guys do them 70% of the time...

    i have yet to hear of someone who has a strong good morning and a weak deadlift and squat.

    i think you need to look at your exercise selection.
    #7
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/25 19:42:14 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by badboy007

    sorry mate, i feel that a strong good morning is essential,, westside guys do them 70% of the time...


    Ditto, which is I have them in every squat session and will be doing heavy singles to failure with them. My problem was with doing them before squats - I've been told to avoid that as pre-fatiguing you back will kill the amount you can squat. I was wondering if you knew something different.
    quote:

    i think you need to look at your exercise selection.


    That's pretty cryptic mate... Could you be a little more specific please? Also, I've modified it a little since you last looked - Spot the difference.
    #8
    Sheeps_Clothing
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/25 22:30:35 (permalink)
    exercise selection...here are some comments i have, id point out im not an expert i just like to think abt my training..


    Session 1: Squat/deadlift ME1
    Squat (ME) - is this onto a box?what height?One-handed box deadlift (This one will be entertaining. Or bloody murder.)- explain this to me mate? sounds interesting, however, will it really increase ur total like a low pin pull would?Lunges- again i class this as a finisher! why is it before GHR?
    Kneeling squat- interested ! how do these badboys work?
    Glute-ham raises (or ham curls if I can't find a training partner)- i take these as manual leg curls then?
    Goodmornings- why is this at the end? perhaps one of the most important movements at the end? why???



    Session 2: Bench ME1
    Bench (ME) (regular/block/bottom-position?)
    Ultra-wide bench- aka illegal wides. tricep work perhaps more valuable?
    Front raises- would prefer to see some heavy shoulder work, push presses?
    Bent-over rows
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Session 3: Squat/deadlift ME2
    Zercher squat- is this a warm up?
    Deadlift (ME)- pin pulls instead? off a box maybe? im playing with the idea of avoiding deads off floor- increase it through squat and dl work
    Sissy squats- the name says it all. avoid- except for the occassional change- cant see you getting strong off these.
    Power cleans (SP singles)
    Calf raises (Dunno how useful these are - Thoughts?)
    Goodmornings- again at the end? why?

    Session 4: Bench ME2
    Bench (Regular/block/bottom-position?)
    Incline press (ME)- why max effort- rotate them as a ME movement in the guise of close grip ones.
    Skullcrushers- not as good as JM press, dips, etc in my opinion.
    Chin-ups
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Session 5: Squat/deadlift ME3
    Front squat
    Goodmornings (ME)
    Kneeling squat
    One-handed box deadlift
    Lunges
    Glute-Ham raises

    Session 6: Bench ME3
    Shoulder press (ME)
    One-handed barbell see-saw press
    Skullcrushers
    Bent-over rows
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Incline press (ME)
    One-handed barbell see-saw press
    Skullcrushers
    Bent-over rows
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Session 7: Squat/deadlift SP1
    Box squat (SP)
    Power cleans (SP singles)
    One-handed barbell snatch (SP singles)
    Leg press (SP)

    Session 8: Bench SP1
    Bottom-position bench (SP)
    Block press (SP)-
    why do these as speed? close grip heavy tricep work instead?
    One-handed barbell bicep curl
    Ab work
    #9
    Jake P
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/25 22:46:14 (permalink)
    well for varieties sake you could exchange some of your lifts for



    overhead squats-work entire body, also a killer for shoulders http://www.renegadetraining.com/code_11_26_02/dan_fichter.html

    sled pulling-never tried it but ive heard it works well,could give it a try

    car pushing-im a big fan of this, theres a post about it on power and streangth forum.it gives me a very nice burn

    you could substitute front raises for the iron cross, i am also a big fan of this excersize, i will look for a video of this being done and post it later

    you could also try the free weight hack squat, you have the bar behind you and do sort of a deadlift but have the bar behind you.
    #10
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/26 02:14:20 (permalink)
    Session 1: Squat/deadlift ME1
    Squat (ME) - Not onto a box. Free back squat to competition depth.
    One-handed box deadlift (This one will be entertaining. Or bloody murder.)- Does exactly what it says on the tin. I thought some d/lift work off a box would be useful as I think my weakness is at the bottom of the lift. As long as my grip holds, I can d/lift any weight I can break off the ground. Low pins pulls are pulling weights from above the floor, using a heavier weight, right?
    Lunges- Because I've always used the philosophy that the exercise that uses the most number of muscle groups should go first and vice verse, excluding ab/back work, which should always go last. Just my opinion. Why do you class them as a finisher?
    Kneeling squat- Hips. I squat and deadlift very wide, so I think these, in addition to the power cleans, could be useful for that.
    Glute-ham raises (or ham curls if I can't find a training partner)- I think so. Lying face down on the ground, someone holding your ankles while you lift your torso off the ground, body rigid, bending at the knee.
    Goodmornings- As above. Agree with the importance of goodmornings, but I've always used back exercises last because you use erector spinae for every other lift, even if only for stability. Prefatiguing them would kill the weight you can use on (almost) every other lift, I'd always thought. Your opinions?

    Session 2: Bench ME1
    Bench (ME) (regular/block/bottom-position?)
    Ultra-wide bench- Bench currently v. weak at the bottom. I can half press about 140kg, but I've never benched more than 120kg.
    Front raises- I know, but I wasn't sure about volume. I was considering subtituting these for one-handed barbell snatches. Thoughts? Or better just to go with more shoulder presses?
    Bent-over rows
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Session 3: Squat/deadlift ME2
    Zercher squat- Kinda. I've never tried the zercher squat so I dunno how much I can lift with it, but knowing I've got heavy d/lifts just afterwards, I was trying to avoid too much work. Maybe substitute for box squats if I'm reduced to lifting truly feckless weights with these.
    Deadlift (ME)- Perhaps. You'll notice that these are the only proper d/lifts I've included.
    Sissy squats- I was looking for something with big emphasis on quads, as I basically have nothing else for this. This a bad idea? Or were you just thinking of some other exercise?
    Power cleans (SP singles)
    Calf raises (Dunno how useful these are - Thoughts?)
    Goodmornings As above.

    Session 4: Bench ME2
    Bench (Regular/block/bottom-position?)
    Incline press (ME)- As I said, weak at bottom of bench. Will rotate with exercises for the top of the bench (block/board/half/floor presses) later, once this problem has been rectified.
    Skullcrushers- Love weighted dips, but no parallel bars in my gym, only a dip machine. What are JM presses?
    Chin-ups
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Session 5: Squat/deadlift ME3
    Front squat
    Goodmornings (ME)
    Kneeling squat
    One-handed box deadlift
    Lunges
    Glute-Ham raises

    Session 6: Bench ME3
    Shoulder press (ME)
    One-handed barbell see-saw press
    Skullcrushers
    Bent-over rows
    One-handed barbell bicep curls
    Abs

    Session 7: Squat/deadlift SP1
    Box squat (SP)
    Power cleans (SP singles)
    One-handed barbell snatch (SP singles)

    Session 8: Bench SP1
    Bottom-position bench (SP)
    Block press (SP) Agree with you here. Not sure why I put these in as SP.
    One-handed barbell bicep curl

    Badboy007 - Thanks a lot for your help. Much appreciated.
    quote:
    Orinigally posted by Jake P

    overhead squats-work entire body, also a killer for shoulders http://www.renegadetraining.com/code_11_26_02/dan_fichter.html

    sled pulling-never tried it but ive heard it works well,could give it a try

    car pushing-im a big fan of this, theres a post about it on power and streangth forum.it gives me a very nice burn

    you could substitute front raises for the iron cross, i am also a big fan of this excersize, i will look for a video of this being done and post it later

    you could also try the free weight hack squat, you have the bar behind you and do sort of a deadlift but have the bar behind you.


    Thanks for your input Jake. I'm not sure how much of this I will be able to use. I'd looked at overhead squats but discounted them as I felt I would have to take seriously long rests between them and my next bench session or run the serious risk of overtraining my shoulders.

    I don't have a sled and would probably have difficulty finding somewhere to pull it (living in London).

    Car pushing might be useful, except lack of car.

    An explanation of the iron cross would be nice.

    Hack squats might be useful.

    Again, thanks y'all...
    #11
    Jake P
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/26 23:56:34 (permalink)
    http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/233exer.jsp


    this is an article i found very helpful, it has pictures and a desription of how to do an iron cross in it.
    #12
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/27 01:49:56 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jake P

    http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/233exer.jsp


    this is an article i found very helpful, it has pictures and a desription of how to do an iron cross in it.


    Thanks Jake... I'm not too sure about the Iron Cross, but I won't write them off yet. I'll have a go at them and see how they feel. They should be useful if I can't find anything else to replace the front raises.
    #13
    DerMalePhonkMann
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/27 09:06:58 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Scourge_of_God

    Ultra-wide bench- Bench currently v. weak at the bottom. I can half press about 140kg, but I've never benched more than 120kg.

    Try benching from the bottom position out of a power rack.
    #14
    veganlifter
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/27 09:28:10 (permalink)
    SOG, one q': you say it's a bastardised version of westside, which it clearly is though i think your version of it lacks a point, a main goal, it seems like you want to do all things at the same time. Westside geezers have chosen the exercise selection for a reason, lunges are not there because their contribution to squat or dl is probably quite minimal and so on.

    So my question is, why bastardise it? Whats wrong with the more-or-less westside style of building bup your program? One main exercice followed by main assistance exercise, perhaps another one, core work and supplementary stuff - nice formula and you can build whatever kind of program out of that. If you goi for a combo of
    quote:

    Front squat
    Goodmornings (ME)
    Kneeling squat
    One-handed box deadlift
    Lunges
    Glute-Ham raises



    either you do not push yourself enough on the main exercises of that particular session or you are already so wasted in the end that things like lunges or pehaps already the previous stuff serves nothing but to contribute to overtreaining. But that is of course just my way of looking at these things, you know yourself best anyways.

    So, too much volume, and lack of direction and "the master plan" is my two critisisms here mate.
    #15
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/27 13:40:59 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by DerMalePhonkMann

    quote:
    Originally posted by Scourge_of_God

    Ultra-wide bench- Bench currently v. weak at the bottom. I can half press about 140kg, but I've never benched more than 120kg.

    Try benching from the bottom position out of a power rack.


    That's what I call a 'bottom-position press', which will be my staple bench press until I can rectify the problem.
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    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/27 14:05:21 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by veganlifter

    SOG, one q': you say it's a bastardised version of westside, which it clearly is though i think your version of it lacks a point, a main goal, it seems like you want to do all things at the same time. Westside geezers have chosen the exercise selection for a reason, lunges are not there because their contribution to squat or dl is probably quite minimal and so on.


    Is it? I've heard this a lot, except I'm sure there is very little difference between a lunge and a one-legged squat, except the lunge requires less balance and more power. The lunge isn't a particular favourite of mine, but I can't see what the problem with it is if I'm training for squat/deadlift. Thoughts?
    quote:

    So my question is, why bastardise it? Whats wrong with the more-or-less westside style of building bup your program? One main exercice followed by main assistance exercise, perhaps another one, core work and supplementary stuff - nice formula and you can build whatever kind of program out of that.


    Basically, I was not intending to create a Westside routine. I was intending to create a volume routine which, incidentally, looks something like Westside. The one problem I have with Westside routines is I prefer more volume in my workouts. Given that, I either have to include a wide range of exercises, or a vast number of sets on a smaller number of exercises.
    quote:

    either you do not push yourself enough on the main exercises of that particular session or you are already so wasted in the end that things like lunges or pehaps already the previous stuff serves nothing but to contribute to overtreaining.


    I don't really buy into the whole paranoid fear of overtraining which seems to have gripped the lifting world recently. Assuming you eat properly, the human body is capable of thriving under ridiculous volumes of work. My experience of lifting tells me that volume is the way to go (for me personally) as I have made good gains with it in the past and relatively disappointing gains with HIT style training.
    quote:

    So, too much volume, and lack of direction and "the master plan" is my two critisisms here mate.


    I'm going to ignore the 'too much volume' complaint because I've heard it too many times, although high volume routine have always worked for me in the past. The 'master plan' criticism is more interesting though - Which exercises that I've included would you suggest I drop and what would you replace them with? Or is it just the lunges?

    Thanks a lot for your help, Vegan.
    #17
    scruffy
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/27 16:42:55 (permalink)
    i would advise strongly about doing heavy singles on goodmornings as you will be asking for trouble if everything is not spot on, personally i dont go lower than triples..
    #18
    Scourge_of_God
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    RE: Scourge's New Year (Volume) Routine... 2003/12/27 18:08:32 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by scruffy

    i would advise strongly about doing heavy singles on goodmornings as you will be asking for trouble if everything is not spot on, personally i dont go lower than triples..


    I was vaguely worried about that... I'll probably have a go at singles, but take it fairly easy, see how it feels.
    #19
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