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Some Questions for everyone to answer

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Snaeke
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2004/01/02 01:55:47 (permalink)

Some Questions for everyone to answer

Ok, first, let me tell you a little about myself & what I've been doing thus far.

I'm 30 yrs old, 5'11 in height. I started weight training in the beginning of May 2003. All total, I have 27 weeks of weight training under my belt. At the time I started, I only weighed 150 pounds. For the first 12 weeks, I was doing 3x11 on each exercise Mon/Wed/Fri. Leg Press, Leg Extension, Leg Curls, Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Lat Pulldown, Pushdowns, and Curl Bar. I gained approx. 15 pounds.

At week 13, I started a pyramid routine(x10/x8/x6/x4) Mon/Tues & Thurs/Fri with more exercises added in. I was working each muscle group twice per week. I did that for 12 weeks before changing the routine.

Week 25 I stayed with the pyramids, but added more exercises, work out 5 days per week(Mon-Fri) & only worked each muscle group once per week.
MON: Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Decline Bench, Pek Dek, Shoulder Press(dbells), Lateral Raises.
TUES: Curl Bar, Reverse Grip Curl Bar, Hammer Curls(dbells), Forearms(both forward & reverse grip).
WED: Leg Press, Leg Extentions, Leg Curls, Hip Abductions, Hip Adductions, Seated Calf Raises, Standing Calf Raises.
THURS: Skull Crushers, Pushdowns, Weighted Dips, 1-arm Cable Pulldowns, Shrugs(dbells).
FRI: Pulldowns, Hammer Pulldowns, Hammer Rows, Bent-Over Rows, Back Extensions, Kick-Outs.

I'm increasing the weight on 1 set by 5 pounds for each exercise every week(except for Back Extensions, Inclined Bench Press, Lat Raises, Hip Abductions/Adductions, and Forearms.
For example, this week for Flat Bench, I did 125x10/135x8/140x6/150x4. Next week, I'll do 125x10/135x8/145x6/150x4. The thing I like about it is I'm always increasing the weight, but not to the extent where I'm unable to increase it on the other exercises. Presently, I weigh 175 pounds.

Is there a way I would be able to successfully incorporate/change my current routine into your 5x5/6x4 routine while leaving out the more advanced compound exercises(squats, dead lifts, etc.)? I realize I would have to cut out quite a few of the above exercises. Which ones would you recommend that I keep/modify?

For the 5x5/6x4, are you increasing the weight on each set or simply working with the same heavy weight on all the sets?
#1

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    Frankie NY
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/02 02:19:43 (permalink)
    Snaeke:

    What you've done this far is very good for someone in their first 6 months of training - frequent training, higher reps, high degree of exercise variety, and low to moderate intensity level. You've probably made good gains and gotten excited about lifting in general, which is great!

    Now you are ready for a slightly different routine. I would recommend several things:

    1. If you haven't done it already, get your diet sorted out. You're moving into a stage now where diet will become more important to your gains. Go to the diet form and read about what a good body building diet is like, or for a less detailed idea, read the posts in my mass building routine about diet.

    2. I wouldn't call the squat, deadlift, and bench "advanced" compound movements. They are the most basic weightlifting exercises that exist, and you need to do them to build your body to it's fullest potential and to avoid injury. Yes, to avoid injury. Without a strong lower back that comes from squatting and deadlifting you are much more injury prone. But most importantly, the squat, deadlift, and bench will add more mass to your physique than any other exercises.

    3. Move to a 3 day split where you work back and biceps in the first workout of the week, chest, shoulders, and triceps in the second, and legs, abs, and heavy grip in the third, just like in the mass routine I posted. In terms of a set and rep scheme, I wouldn't jump into 5x5 or 4x6 just yet. I would do 3x8 for 3 months first. Forget about pyramids for now. Also, you can add one more exercise per workout while you are doing 3x8. The purpose of 3x8 is to build additional muscle and to get your body ready for a lower rep routine like 5x5.

    4. Drop all the exercises you are doing on the machines and stick with free weights. Free weights will make you stronger and bigger.

    5. Also spend the next 3 months making sure your form and breathing are correct. Have someone who knows their stuff work with you.
    #2
    ice_mach
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/02 15:26:21 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Snaeke



    Is there a way I would be able to successfully incorporate/change my current routine into your 5x5/6x4 routine while leaving out the more advanced compound exercises(squats, dead lifts, etc.)? I realize I would have to cut out quite a few of the above exercises. Which ones would you recommend that I keep/modify?

    For the 5x5/6x4, are you increasing the weight on each set or simply working with the same heavy weight on all the sets?



    Why would u want to leave them out, many of the things that we do are compound movements, compound movements are jus a reflection of wot we normally do in every day life. IMO ur missing out on great gains by leavin them out, and risking injury with so much isolation work, . I'd jus drop that routine and use ne of the other routines posted up in the routines section.
    #3
    Snaeke
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/06 01:23:24 (permalink)
    Thanks for the help Frankie! Starting on Jan 12(next week), I'm going to switch to that 3x8 routine.

    I just have a couple of questions. I know for doing the 5x5/4x6 routine, you recommended resting 2-5 minutes between sets(usually 4-5 minutes for the last 2 sets).
    On my present pyramid routine, I rest 1 to 1.5 minutes between sets. Should I stick with that for 3x8 or bump it up to around 2-3 minutes?

    Here's the routine I've put together so far based upon your info:
    DAY 1 Monday – PULL
    Power Cleans
    Dumbbell Rows
    Hammer Curls

    DAY 2 Wednesday – PUSH
    Flat Dumbbell Bench Press
    Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
    Tricep Dips

    DAY 3 Friday – LEGS
    Back Squats
    Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts
    Calf Raises (3x12)(seated or standing?)
    Weighted Crunches (3x12)

    I remember you mentioned to add in 1 additional exercise for each day while doing the 3x8 routine. What exercises could you recommend?

    "With weight lifting you get out of it what you put in to it. I've seen guys add 100 pounds to their squat in a year. I've also seen guys who are using the same weights now as they were a year ago. Which one do you want to be?"
    I want to be the fother mucker that adds 200 pounds in a year!![:(!] That's how insane I can be when it comes to weight training.[:p]
    #4
    Frankie NY
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/06 03:50:59 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Snaeke

    Should I stick with that for 3x8 or bump it up to around 2-3 minutes?


    2-3 minutes would be ideal. 8 rep sets are not as taxing as 5 rep sets, so you can recover faster. You shouldn't need more than 3 minutes.

    quote:


    Here's the routine I've put together so far based upon your info:
    DAY 1 Monday – PULL
    Power Cleans Do deadlifts instead
    Dumbbell Rows
    Add wide grip chins or barbell curls
    Hammer Curls

    DAY 2 Wednesday – PUSH
    Flat Dumbbell Bench Press
    Add incline barbell bench press
    Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
    Tricep Dips

    DAY 3 Friday – LEGS
    Back Squats
    Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts or Lying Leg Curls
    Calf Raises (3x12) - either seated or standing
    Weighted Crunches (3x12)


    quote:

    "I want to be the fother mucker that adds 200 pounds in a year!!"


    Good man!
    #5
    marko
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/06 22:31:42 (permalink)
    Frankie is 3x8 performed in the same way as 5x5? I mean is it used as a goal to reach before adding more weight rather than a weekly achievment?
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    Frankie NY
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/06 22:36:20 (permalink)
    Marko:

    I'm not sure I understand your question, but the goal of all weight training is to add weight whenever possible. 3x8 works just like 5x5 in that once you can do 8 reps on all 3 sets you should increase the weight the following week.

    If this doesn't answer your question, then repost.
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    Snaeke
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/07 00:54:58 (permalink)
    Ok mate, I got it! Thanks again for the help!


    marko, the 3x8 is what Frankie recommends to start out with prior to doing 5x5 or 4x6. The reason being is so I have time for my muscles to adjust & prepare for the heavier weight to come. Also, of most importance, it will allow me to develop proper form using less weight since I've never done a couple of those compound exercises(specifically deadlifts, power cleans, etc.).

    The good thing about the gym I go to is I have someone who will be able to go through the whole routine with me & make sure that I'm keeping proper form. The guy competes in powerlifting, so he'll be a big help in this area. =)
    #8
    Snaeke
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/09 03:56:34 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Frankie NY

    Marko:

    I'm not sure I understand your question, but the goal of all weight training is to add weight whenever possible. 3x8 works just like 5x5 in that once you can do 8 reps on all 3 sets you should increase the weight the following week.

    If this doesn't answer your question, then repost.



    Frankie, this is one area of uncertainty I need clarified for me. If I can do 3 sets of 8, then that means I should increase the weight the following week. For the following week, how many reps should I be able to do on those sets? Would only being able to do 1 set of 8 on 1st, x7 on 2nd, then x6 on 3rd mean the weight is too heavy or would that be ok?
    I'm figuring that doing x8/x7/x6 after an increase in weight would be ok, just as long as I try to do more the next week until I work myself up to 3x8(Which at that point I would once again increase the weight and repeat). Sound good to you?
    #9
    Frankie NY
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/09 05:27:52 (permalink)
    Snaeke:

    Sounds good to me. If you can do 3 sets of 8 reps and only increase the weight by 5 pounds, then the new weight is not too heavy regardless of how many reps you get on each set.
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    Snaeke
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/10 01:48:29 (permalink)
    Ok, cool! Just one more question, and I consider it to be very important.

    How would you recommend doing the individual reps? I've been told different things by different people(and I think I might have asked this question on here a while back).

    My reasoning is you don't want to do the reps too slowly because you won't be able to work with as heavy of weight and it would be similar to doing higher volume sets.
    On the other hand, you don't want to do them too quickly because it could interfere with keeping proper form, plus you won't be completely working the muscle(s) properly.
    How many seconds should it take for the negative & positive movements, and how long of a pause(if any) in between the negative & positive movements?
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    Frankie NY
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/10 03:58:07 (permalink)
    Snaeke:

    You've answered your own question. Your rep speed shouldn't be too slow, and it shouldn't be too fast. The most important thing is that the negative portion of the rep be under control but not slow. Just don't drop the weight, lower it in a controlled manner.

    For exercises in which you don't hold your breath during reps(chins, rows, curls, etc.), you should begin the next rep immediately. For exercises in which you hold your breath during reps (squats, deadlifts, heavy benches, heavy overheads), pause long enough to breathe out and in again.
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    Snaeke
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/13 01:18:08 (permalink)
    Hey Frankie, just started the routine today & I have to say I'm impressed. I can't remember the last time my traps had that good "slight" soreness(you know what I mean) after a workout. Gotta love those Deadlifts!
    The trainer was rather impressed with my form considering I had never done them before. My breathing was fine, too. I guess the breathing part usually comes natural though for most people.

    Dumbbell Rows are a good one, too. heh, I think I'm going to drop the weight down to the 35 lb dumbbell. I was using a 40 lb'er, but my form was questionable on the last few reps on each set, especially when doing the left side.

    I wanted to add more cardio to my routine to keep the heart healthy since some of these exercises are more demanding. What would you think of doing this:
    MONDAY - Pull Exercises
    TUESDAY - 30 min. Cardio. Minimum resistance on the cycle keeping the RPM's between 75-80.
    WEDNESDAY- Push Exercises
    THURSDAY - Same as Tuesday's routine
    FRIDAY - Legs

    Would that be too much or would it be ok? Was considering throwing in another cardio session on Saturday, but I think that might interfere a little with recovery from Friday's leg routine. What do you think mate?
    #13
    Frankie NY
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/13 02:43:31 (permalink)
    Snaeke:

    If you deadlifted today and already feel a little tightness or soreness, just wait until tomorrow morning.

    Two days of cardio would be enough. You can do 3 if you like, but it's good to have 2 consecutive days when you don't lift or go to the gym. Instead, get outside on the weekend and do some bike riding, play basketball with your friends, go hiking, etc.

    I don't do any intense cardio ever after squat day. I like to give my legs a rest. Sometimes though if you're really sore, doing some light cardio like walking will help with muscle soreness.
    #14
    Snaeke
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    RE: Some Questions for everyone to answer 2004/01/13 22:00:47 (permalink)
    Yeah, its a little bit more sore/stiff today, but its not that bad. heh, I only did 95 pounds 3x8 on the Deadlift. I probably could've done 105 lbs. but didn't want to overdo it.
    When I first started lifting last year, it only took me one f*** up to learn that no matter how "easy" the reps may seem to be, go light if its the first time you've ever done the exercise.

    I remember back in the Army I tried doing Skull Crushers for the first time. I had too much weight on the bar & ended up with the curl bar across my forehead. [:p] That's how I figured out where the name came from. [^]
    #15
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