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Helpful ReplyHot!Steroids and necessity of diet

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Carbfiend
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2018/03/07 12:50:02 (permalink)
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Steroids and necessity of diet

Mainly posting this one for debate before I seem clueless

I will say however with diet slipping due to social life last fortnight, I’ve made more significant gains running PEDs than with immaculate diet and no steroids, so it does beg the question...

is adequate protein really that necessary to build significant muscle mass growth?

To pre empt responses; I’m guessing some will say obviously I’ve made progress due to training and AAS, but that’s not to say I wouldn’t have made MORE progress with a tighter more protein / calorie dense diet?
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BigMacca
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 13:25:45 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby The_Lone_Wolf 2018/03/07 14:35:16
+2 (2)
Muscle growth can only realistically occur in two ways;
 
1) Each muscle cell can increase the number of contractile proteins within it (up to a certain limit dependant on the number of myonuclei )
2) The muscle cell can increase the number of myonuclei within it and therefore increase the number of contractile proteins within it.
 
Now, you can only increase the number of myonuclei when we have steroids in the system - When they bind to the androgen receptor in the muscle cell they allow the satellite cells around the muscle cell divide and donate their nuclei to the muscle cell.
This increase of myonuclei happens in a dose-dependent manner (the higher the does, the more the above process happens and the more myonuclei you end up with.
 
All this is going to happen no matter what your diet is like.
 
So, once you have your increased number of myonuclei, your job is then to provide enough raw material to increase the number of contractile proteins - For this, you essentially just need to eat enough protein.
 
So, to answer your question, no it doesn't really matter that much from about the quality of your diet in regards to pure muscle growth as long as you have the basics covered.
The fact you have slacked off on the clean food recently might have actually helped if you ended up upping your cals (which is easily done when switching from clean to dirty eating) and your body could have had a nice little rebound.
 
From a health perspective, it possibly has more impact as taking gear does put extra stress on things like your kidneys / liver etc - So drinking loads of booze won't help you out in the long run :D

Incidentally, the extra myonuclei you get when on gear hang around for at least 15 years in humans.
So, even if you come off everything and stop training, even though you will obviously lose muscle volume, you still have the extra myonuclei in your muscle cells hanging around and therefore the potential to have more contractile proteins when you start training again.
This is effectively what 'muscle memory' is :)
 
Macca
 
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Carbfiend
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 13:46:05 (permalink)
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Great post Macca thank you
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silent rep
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 14:58:46 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby ANIMAL 2018/03/07 20:06:55
+1 (1)
Learn't my lesson years ago when I attended the 1996 British Championships (Yates was guest poser) with my skinny ass and Tupperware full of chicken and rice, I took a walk lunchtime to get some air and wandered past a Maccy D and yes you guessed it all the big mofo's were in there eating trays of burgers...It might not be healthy or clever but to get big you need to eat big. 

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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Carbfiend
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 15:14:36 (permalink)
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Silent - are you implying provided you eat in a caloric surplus protein (the old 1-1.5g per lb you weigh) isn’t that relevant?
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BigMacca
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 15:39:32 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Uriel 2018/03/08 22:55:58
+1 (1)
Carbfiend
Silent - are you implying provided you eat in a caloric surplus protein (the old 1-1.5g per lb you weigh) isn’t that relevant?

I think he's saying it doesn't matter if that protein is coming from brown rice and chicken, or a double whopper with large fries 
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silent rep
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 15:57:56 (permalink)
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BigMacca
Carbfiend
Silent - are you implying provided you eat in a caloric surplus protein (the old 1-1.5g per lb you weigh) isn’t that relevant?

I think he's saying it doesn't matter if that protein is coming from brown rice and chicken, or a double whopper with large fries 




Yeah it's very hard to eat enough clean calories day in day out if you're big or want to get big...it takes a lot of time in both meal prep and eating. Sure it's more healthy to eat clean but as long as you cover your daily protein intake and basic macro requirements, training intensity and rest......then just get them calories in while on a cycle.
post edited by silent rep - 2018/03/07 16:23:47

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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Carbfiend
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 19:26:12 (permalink)
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silent rep
BigMacca
Carbfiend
Silent - are you implying provided you eat in a caloric surplus protein (the old 1-1.5g per lb you weigh) isn’t that relevant?

I think he's saying it doesn't matter if that protein is coming from brown rice and chicken, or a double whopper with large fries 




Yeah it's very hard to eat enough clean calories day in day out if you're big or want to get big...it takes a lot of time in both meal prep and eating. Sure it's more healthy to eat clean but as long as you cover your daily protein intake and basic macro requirements, training intensity and rest......then just get them calories in while on a cycle.


How do you figure out the macros of sh*t like fast food and takeaway tho?

Obviously you could google it but with the nature of food versus pre packed / made I’m guessing it varies significantly?

Also still under the pretence (true or false) Mac D’s ‘meat’ is basically reformed, reconstituted, mulched up bits of skulls, tails and whatever else anyway and guessing that’s not the highest lb for lb protein source lmao

Could easily be wrong
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Uriel
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 19:34:48 (permalink)
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BigMaccaNow, you can only increase the number of myonuclei when we have steroids in the system - When they bind to the androgen receptor in the muscle cell they allow the satellite cells around the muscle cell divide and donate their nuclei to the muscle cell.
This increase of myonuclei happens in a dose-dependent manner (the higher the does, the more the above process happens and the more myonuclei you end up with.

Do you have any evidence to base this on?
 
Addition of new myonuclei is a normal process of muscle hypertrophy observed in all sorts of subjects with any level of muscle hypertrophy and "muscle memory" has been well known since the first time someone went to a gym to build muscles by lifting heavy things regardless of using anabolic steroids.
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silent rep
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 19:39:47 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby Carbfiend 2018/03/07 19:43:26
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Get 3-4 solid (macro accountable) meals sorted and freeform the rest, i'm not saying you should rely or live off junk food just don't beat yourself up if it's added into the daily calorie intake when bulking.

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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BigMacca
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 19:50:42 (permalink)
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Uriel
BigMaccaNow, you can only increase the number of myonuclei when we have steroids in the system - When they bind to the androgen receptor in the muscle cell they allow the satellite cells around the muscle cell divide and donate their nuclei to the muscle cell.
This increase of myonuclei happens in a dose-dependent manner (the higher the does, the more the above process happens and the more myonuclei you end up with.

Do you have any evidence to base this on?
 
Addition of new myonuclei is a normal process of muscle hypertrophy observed in all sorts of subjects with any level of muscle hypertrophy and "muscle memory" has been well known since the first time someone went to a gym to build muscles by lifting heavy things regardless of using anabolic steroids.

Yep, there are a few very good, peer reviewed, fully controlled studies out there.

Bhasin 1996 study.
Bhasin 2001 study

Anders Eriksson study done on clean and steroid using powerlifters
https://www.google.com/ur...1IOQ7v3z9HVtf6jq2JdfkN

That will have to do for now, I'm in the gym and on my phone doing this
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Uriel
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 20:19:58 (permalink)
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I'm reading that and they say doped group had ended up with a greater density of myonuclei, they don't compare how much it increased in both groups.
 
To be clear I'm not doubting that steroids increase the number of myonuclei. I'm only saying that this has been shown consistently in any subjects with significant levels of hypertrophy that myonuclei number increases as the muscle grows, it's a normal aspect of muscle growth that doesn't require steroids to take place. Similarly you don't need to have built your muscles with steroids to benefit from the effect of muscle memory.
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BigMacca
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 20:36:17 (permalink)
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I think we are actually in agreement but don't know it.

My initial post was referring to trained individuals (as we are talking about someone using steroids), as once you've been training for a while you simply can't keep recruiting satellite cells for their nuclei.

Once you've hit this point, the only realistic way you are getting more myonuclei is by having anabolics binding to the androgen receptor in the muscle.

Sorry if this wasn't clear, I'm been typing quickly whilst doing other things (like coding :) )

It's kind of irrelevant to the original post in any case as anabolics increase your myonuclei count without you doing anything due to their action on the androgen receptors

Macca
post edited by BigMacca - 2018/03/07 20:40:44
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Uriel
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 21:49:57 (permalink)
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Steroids are awesome, yes, I am aware.
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BigMacca
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 22:19:12 (permalink)
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Uriel
Steroids are awesome, yes, I am aware.

Have you let anyone else know?

Could well be a bumper sticker there...
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Carbfiend
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/07 22:59:07 (permalink)
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Anyone else wanna chime in on this?
post edited by Carbfiend - 2018/03/08 22:25:19
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Carbfiend
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/08 22:25:33 (permalink)
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Anyone else wanna chime in on this?
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Uriel
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Re: Steroids and necessity of diet 2018/03/08 22:54:44 (permalink)
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Not much else to say. Diet only affects muscle growth in so far as providing or not the necessary aminos and energy balance essentially, the "quality" or "cleanness" of your foods has more impact on your health and ability to stay lean than how big or strong you can get. As said lots of very big buys eat a lot of "dirty" food, sometimes deliberately because it's so hard to get in a lot of food energy from "clean" foods.
 
Steroids have a much bigger impact than diet. Steroids improve just about everything about the whole process of growing bigger muscles, getting stronger, leaner, faster etc.
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