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Stretching questions ?

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Jazz
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2004/02/11 13:35:14 (permalink)
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Stretching questions ?

Having read several posts on stretching. A lot of people believe stretching before a workout and between sets to be not a good idea.

At the moment I'm reading '50 Ways To Build Muscle Fast' by Dave Tuttle.

He reckons that since stretching increases the range of motion a muscle moves through, muscle fibres can contract over a greater distance. Greater forces are then produced and more muscle fibre recruitment stimulating greater muscular adaptations.

Is this true ? I thought that force production is lowered ?
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    DARRYN
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/11 15:12:35 (permalink)
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    As you quote an increased range of motion will lead to greater forced production (up to a point). However the link you seem to miss is that stretching DURING or BEFORE training will lead to damaging muscle fibres required for contraction. On the other hand stretching AFTER training will allow an increase in range of motion without hindering force production during your workout.
    I hope this helps you!
    #2
    Jazz
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/11 17:34:52 (permalink)
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    Thanks that's what I've heard from reading other posts....

    Is stretching still damaging to muscle fibres even it you only hold the stretch for say 10 secs?

    Also say if I begin a workout with an excessively tight muscle would it not be a good idea to stretch that muscle so that I'm more mobile for that exercise ?
    #3
    dirtyvest
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/11 17:49:07 (permalink)
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    You would get sufficient stretch from performing a few warm-up sets. More heat in the muscle will make it more flexible also.
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    Dildo69
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/11 19:01:38 (permalink)
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    U would be better of having a warm-up that improved ur range of motion. I like to use light skipping for 5mins, followed by a couple of runs on the agility ladder, i then static stretch my hip flexor as its extremely tight then i do a javorek complex (with OH squats added into them). It takes about 12-15mins.
    #5
    ozzy
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 10:18:35 (permalink)
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    The only warm up you need for weights is exercise specific. Do a few light sets which progressively increase in weight until you reach a working set.

    Stretching can be performed post workout if you feel it benefical
    #6
    Dildo69
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 13:46:44 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ozzy

    The only warm up you need for weights is exercise specific. Do a few light sets which progressively increase in weight until you reach a working set.

    Stretching can be performed post workout if you feel it benefical



    Not if u have problem area which could result in possible injury, for example when he says a certain muscle is tight should he stretch it, it obviously depends on the muscle, but in my case static stretching the hip flexor before my workouts takes a great deal of pressure of my lower back. It also makes me feel safer when lifting weight as i dont think im going to get injured again, even if it wasnt helping at all the psychological benefit alone means it would be worth doing.
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    ozzy
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 15:02:27 (permalink)
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    warming up a problem area with weights will not cause an injury. You are more likely to damage the muscle by stretching it cold.
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    Dildo69
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 16:03:02 (permalink)
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    But u wouldnt stretch it cold, u would warm-up first.

    I agree with u thet the only warm-up u need for weights is exercise specfic, i would generally not recommend any stataic stretching before a workout, im just saying there are exceptions where a differnt approach would also work.

    For example u could do the javorek complex (which is still pretty much exercise specfic) then stretch the area, then proceed to ur first exercise.

    or

    U could go straight to ur first excercise and once u have completed enough warm-up reps and ur close to ur working sets u could stretch the area, then continue.
    #9
    TheMasterPlan
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 17:11:40 (permalink)
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    Id had just come here to post a stretching topic myself, but i'll watch this one.

    Ive had a back strain that is still there, months later. Sometimes its better than other times.
    For details of my routine check my journal, but basically a 3 day 5x5 split focusing on the big 3 lifts.

    I dont stretch, but J5 said i should, ive read here before that its not necessary (i think that advice was mainly from ozzy, months and months ago?). What should i do!
    If it would help my strain to stretch, what stretches should i do, before/after etc?

    Also!
    im trying to do leg raises, but my legs arent flexible enough, should i stretch to improve this?

    thanks.
    #10
    dirtyvest
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 17:36:07 (permalink)
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    Stretch afterwards.... set a side a good little while to really focus on it, I usually spend a good 20 mins stretching after a session (I have back probs). You could do with getting checked out and finding out specifically where your problems lie and to those include some good general lower body, hip and lower back stretches.

    As said tho, no real need to stretch before your session beyond that achieved by warm-up sets.
    #11
    PikeKing
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 17:38:55 (permalink)
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    On the whole I agree with what ozzy and DV have said. You should warm up doing the exercise or exercises you'll be doing in the workout.

    However, if you have a past injury, postural problems, or just plain tight muscles you should stretch the effected areas first. After you've done something to warm your body. These should be gentle stretches however, not aggressive at all, to prevent muscle damage.
    #12
    Dildo69
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 18:27:43 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by PikeKing


    On the whole I agree with what ozzy and DV have said. You should warm up doing the exercise or exercises you'll be doing in the workout.

    However, if you have a past injury, postural problems, or just plain tight muscles you should stretch the effected areas first. After you've done something to warm your body. These should be gentle stretches however, not aggressive at all, to prevent muscle damage.



    Woohoo, someone who agrees with me! Just to clarify i would NOT recommend static stretching before a workout except in certain cases like as pikeking says.

    Although intrestingly enough Ian King still says u should static stretch before a workout and beleives everyone else will find him correct in years to come, but most strength coaches prefer to use P.N.F stretching before a workout with elite athletes, and some prefer not at all.
    #13
    Dildo69
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/12 18:37:54 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Mintaka

    Id had just come here to post a stretching topic myself, but i'll watch this one.

    Ive had a back strain that is still there, months later. Sometimes its better than other times.
    For details of my routine check my journal, but basically a 3 day 5x5 split focusing on the big 3 lifts.

    I dont stretch, but J5 said i should, ive read here before that its not necessary (i think that advice was mainly from ozzy, months and months ago?). What should i do!
    If it would help my strain to stretch, what stretches should i do, before/after etc?

    Also!
    im trying to do leg raises, but my legs arent flexible enough, should i stretch to improve this?

    thanks.



    A back strain thats still there could be down to a whole host of issues and its probably best to do as dirty says and get it checked out.

    Do u mean ur u cant keep ur legs straight when doing leg raises? Its ok to have a slight bend in them.
    #14
    TheMasterPlan
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/13 10:07:42 (permalink)
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    Right, i'll do some after sessions then. Thanks people

    This may seem elementary, but has anyone got suggestions of suitable stretches? I sometimes do one that is on a sheet I got off a physio, where you lie on your front and push your upper body up till your arms are straight, keeping legs on the floor, that stetches your back and helps a bit with my strain. Any others?
    cheers.
    #15
    gwaipor
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/13 11:01:33 (permalink)
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    I stretch the antagonist muscle only. you want the target muscles to be contracting at maximum ability, so I don't see why you would want to lengthen it by stretching beforehand.
    #16
    GTM
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/13 12:00:58 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JohnnyFive

    Whereas if you stretch after the workout you have the benefits of being 'warm', plus of course it will help to flush out waste products from the muscles (to a small degree) and help alleviate DOMS.



    Johnny..

    What's your opinion on post work out fascia stretching? Do you think that it's possible? Do you believe that helping to stretch the fascia will lower resistance to growth of the muscle fibres? Is there any proof that any stretch that may be achieved is not just transitory.

    To me the mechanism sort of makes sense.. but I wonder just how much of a barrier to fibre growth the fascia really is.. obviously it's flexible .. otherwise muscle fibre growth would be impossible.

    GTM
    #17
    Dildo69
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/02/13 18:20:06 (permalink)
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    Does anyone know why so many elite coaches prescribe P.N.F before a workout, iv read this about many coaches starting way back when i read Charlie Francis training system untill present day, but never actually read an explenation as to why or how it affects u as opposed to static which is not recommended.
    #18
    gwaipor
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/04/18 02:56:48 (permalink)
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    if you stretch the fascia longer, would that be like gaining muscle faster after a layoff because your fascia was already elongated
    #19
    PikeKing
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    RE: Stretching questions ? 2004/04/18 08:36:45 (permalink)
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    PNF stetching can cause a strength output increase
    #20
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