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Super Course

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olliem
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2005/07/28 10:15:52 (permalink)
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Super Course

Hi Guys, Ive been off for a while and ive decided to go a bit crazy.
Ive always stayed pretty sensible with the amount of gear i take but want to try some thing different.

1ml sus, 1 ml tren accetate per day for 21 days

Then tapering down on wini 25mg per day and viromone 3 amps per week.

Ill also run Norvedex or clomid.

Ill keep you guys posted !!!

Live it
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 10:21:52 (permalink)
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    My god your hardly guna be able to move , have you done ed shot at 2 ml before ?
    Ive almost finished a 21 day sus cycle and its hell mate

    originally posted at A/R
    One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly
    use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages so you can fully benefit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not receive proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continuously, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but only once the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results from the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.

    I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters: 30mg of prop 60mg of phenylprop 60mg of isocaproate 100mg of deconate Combined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Let's take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body.
    30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benefits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now let's say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week.

    60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, *******'s powder). If injected twice a week, then let's even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

    To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now let's look at the longer acting esters in sus.

    60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time.
    100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Deca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

    If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I don't even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

    The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First, I would answer don't buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you don't believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesn't like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, that's crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no it's not crazy, it's science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilder's needs equal injecting every day. People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and deca, or deca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and **** it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed, and you just may thank me and DAWG later.
    #2
    olliem
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 10:35:58 (permalink)
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    No ive never done 1 ed but no pain no gain HA HA HA

    Ive read your post on sus before its wat gave me the idea but dont like dianabol so thought id finish off some tren i have
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 10:40:50 (permalink)
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    Id save the tren for a dif cycle , im thinking of throwing some winny in at the end. Just wouldnt like doing that many shots and that many ml

    But up to you. Why not do the 21days of sus then do 21 days of tren after that as the sus will be in your system for another 3 weeks. Plus i rekon after then 21 days you wont want to do anymore hahah
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    olliem
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 10:59:11 (permalink)
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    ok i here wat your saying, wat do you think i cud throw in with the sus instead of tren?
    I was planing to finish with wini and viromone but i suppose i could do tren and wini instead.
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 11:03:15 (permalink)
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    Well im just doing sus then winny , im really sick of the shots HAHAHA

    But yeh you could do sumin like that with the tren and winny.

    But i would just save the tren, the 21 days sus has done enough for me. I like big long cycles but i really couldnt do it much more
    #6
    olliem
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 12:55:07 (permalink)
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    ok i proberbly will save the tren but i want to run something else with the sus, but no tabs i dont like them, do have any suggestions
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 13:31:39 (permalink)
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    winny shots like i am, really easy to do and no pain as water based , will be good for last few week eod
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    lukifer
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 17:04:35 (permalink)
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    why only 21 days.....the long acting esters are just kickin in. defeats the purpose.
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    olliem
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 17:16:24 (permalink)
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    cos of the half life of sus i aim to do 6 weeks total and will move on to fast acting after 21 days for a further 3 weeks, then when i come off i will completly clean as the sus would have left my system as well, i think its 28 days sus is active for.

    Wat do you think, do you have any suggestions as ive never tried this type of course before, wud you stay on 1 sus a day for longer?

    Live it
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    lukifer
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/28 17:29:31 (permalink)
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/29 09:26:58 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: lukifer

    why only 21 days.....the long acting esters are just kickin in. defeats the purpose.



    I just posted a massive article why ^^^^^^^
    #12
    olliem
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/29 13:20:58 (permalink)
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    in what way?

    How long did you do it for?

    Live it
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    RE: Super Course 2005/07/29 13:42:42 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Nytol

    I ran it for 5/6 weeks, and the gains were much less than when I put 3/4 sust in once per week.

    May just be me, but I've had similar experiences since, did 200mg TE eod, and did not gain that well, but when I put 800mg in once per week gains came fast. For me having a higher blood level for part of the week works much better than keeping levels even.

    I read a study where a group of men were given 50mg of prop per week for whatever reason, no gains in muscle were expected as this was just a replacement dose.

    The subjects did gain muscle, and the researcers put it down to the fact that the 50mg of test hitting the system all at once, caused the body to be more anabolic than usual, even though the weekly dose was no more than was being produced naturally.




    Hmm good point never thought of it like that
    #14
    olliem
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    RE: Super Course 2005/08/09 09:03:57 (permalink)
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    well ive been doin wat i said for just over a week and i cant believe how much weight i have gained even if it is only water at this point but it looks great on the scales.

    ive gained about a 10 lbs, to be honest its a bit scarey to gain this much so quick, i can see the water retention in my face, is there anything i can do to get rid of this or should i just ride it out.

    Live it
    #15
    penfold
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    RE: Super Course 2005/08/09 10:19:11 (permalink)
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    get some arimidex or letrozole and you will hold no water at all mate, if you cant afford them then try nolvadex 20mg eod or proviron 50mg ed but personally these do fck all for me and id go with the letro every time now.

    pen
    #16
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