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SuperSlow for bodybuilding

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Marso70
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2004/02/03 10:37:54 (permalink)
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SuperSlow for bodybuilding

I've used this method of training for quite a while now as I think it's an excellent way to train. I'm curious to know whether anyone else here has and what your general opinions are. Thanks
Paul.
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    pop
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/03 10:51:08 (permalink)
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    I do my reps pretty slow, especially on the big 3 - deads, squats, bench.

    Don't know if it does me any good, but it helps me focus better both metally and physically.
    #2
    shreklikedave
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/03 12:14:26 (permalink)
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    not a big fan, one because it bores me and two because it limits the weight you can use.

    However if you grow from it then keep on doing it!!
    #3
    Marso70
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/03 12:50:52 (permalink)
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    Your comment on it being boring is a common one, but I find it anything but. The level of intensity it creates requires tremendous mental focus and does not allow the mind to wander. However I do accept that some people find moving this slow somewhat tedious.

    As to it limiting the weight, the idea behind this is to reduce impact forces and thus injury but heavy weights can also and should be lifted with SuperSlow.

    If one's goal is to simply lift as much as possible ( as per SAID) then SuperSlow is not ideal. However if your goal is to inroad your muscles to a very deep level in the most effecient manner possible ( to stimulate an increase in hypertrophy) then SuperSlow more than meets these requirements.
    Thanks
    Paul.
    #4
    PikeKing
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/03 12:51:13 (permalink)
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    Generally speaking I wouldnt worry to much about the speed of movement, just make sure you move it under control.

    Changing the speed can be as good as changing the exercise in my opinion, so there is some value to it.
    #5
    shreklikedave
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/03 19:09:04 (permalink)
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    Like i said if it works for you then fine but heavier weights can be used with a faster rep cadence (not uncontrolled, just faster) than supper slow.

    When you say super slow i assume you are talking about 10s eccentric and concentric phases.

    Using more weight will generally stimulate more muscle fibres and a rep range of somewhere between 4 and 8 seems ideal for most people to achieve this.

    There is no right answer however so as long as a rep range and cadence suit you then stick with it.

    #6
    T-Bone123
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/03 19:10:40 (permalink)
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    Id use it perhaps to bust through a plateau but not consistently; like drop sets etc
    #7
    IrishRunt
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/03 19:59:21 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by PikeKing


    Generally speaking I wouldnt worry to much about the speed of movement, just make sure you move it under control.

    Changing the speed can be as good as changing the exercise in my opinion, so there is some value to it.



    i've heard the same thing from people.
    #8
    cernics
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/04 02:27:17 (permalink)
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    so what r u trying to say johhnyfive, that slow is not the way to go??
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    shreklikedave
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/04 09:58:12 (permalink)
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    Basically yes thats what he was saying.

    I was being diplomatic in my last posts but essentially agree with J5.

    J5 for P.M, that would make an interesting interview!! lol
    #10
    Marso70
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/05 13:58:10 (permalink)
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    "Anything that involves lowering weight univerally is bad, simple as that."

    So is exploding the weight from rest in fact it’s worse.

    "There just is no argument in it's favour, including that of injury. Firstly a rapid cadence in performing a movement isn't dangerous assuming you are correctly prepared for that speed, which is well proven by the fact that Olympic lifters are less injured than any other weight training group"

    Wrong again, there is plenty of evidence which clearly demonstrates that it is excessive force that is the cause of injury, this alone provides a strong argument in it’s favour. Just how does one prepare for and measure excess force? As no one knows for certain what forces are being generated when the weight is lifted in a rapid and explosive manner. According to the data I have read, it is in fact OL and Powerlifters that suffer the most injuries most accept this as part of their training and the manner in which they train.

    "Most bodybuilders don't work on flexibility, don't warm up properly, don't work specifically on connective tissue strength, and generally don't have a clue about how to prevent injury."


    Bodybuilders shouldn’t be overly concerned with the issues you mention that is more for the weight lifter and the demonstration of strength something of no concern to the body builder. The main objective of a bodybuilding workout should be to fatigue the muscles to a deep level as efficiently and effectively as possible, not see how much weight they can lift. One set of ten reps to muscular failure ( performed slowly) could be viewed as 9 warm ups followed by one all out set, so there is no need to perform extra warm ups. Your statement is in fact based merely on your opinion and is sweeping at best.

    .
    "In addition to the above what superslow does is prevent the body from actuating it's stretch reflex properly, hence the joints are never properly strengthened, and more importantly the body loses it's ability to properly recruit the antagonist in order to prevent joint hyperextension. Hence in any non-superslow activity you perform outside of the gym you are exposed to a much greater threat of injury."

    This is quite possible the most ridiculous statement yet, refer to S.A.I.D as it’s clear you don’t fully understand this principle. Any non superslow activity poses a greater risk? Really? So walking down the road poses a greater risk, getting up from a chair how about bending over to pick something up? Again the most common cause of injury is through the use of excess force, superslow strengthen muscles, increases bone density and in general promotes better over all conditioning these factors all contribute to the prevention of injury.



    "As a plateau buster, the only plateau buster you ever need is a detraining week, or a manipulation of volume or frequency. It isn't a valid argument to think up any old crackpot system and say it's ok because it'll do for a change. There are certain methods of change which are absolutely superior to reducing cadence. "

    Such as?
    Also there is a differene between cadence and speed, something you either don't understand or have missed.

    The other point mentioned is that 'it works'. Well frankly, no sh1t Sherlock. Everything works, any type of resistance training that has ever been invented or ever will be invented works given a reasonable amount of effort. The whole point of weight training is to do what is BETTER or hopefully one day what is BEST, not what works. A lot of people come up with crap like, 'if it isn't broke don't fix it'. Unfortunately not a lot of people have the ability to recognise when a routine is 'broke' and when it isn't. Things don't 'suit' certain people, we are all human, we all hypertrophy in the EXACT same way and for the EXACT same reasons.


    "There are univeral laws governing this, and lowering the weight used, invalidates the cardinal law of weight training."

    What cardinal rule? weight training is based on sceintific principes which are relative to us all, a reduction in resitance does not render it useless if it's purpose is to create a deep level of inroad into the muscles starting strength, thereby disrupting homestasis, which is the first stage of GAS (general adaptation syndrome)which is scientifically accpeted as the theory of stress which can be applied to weight training which is a form of stress, that being anerobic.

    "Not to mention the fact that obviously it will lessen strength gains. Before anyone mentions it yes of course it will produce strength gains, anything will, but it will lessen strength gains."

    Lessen them relative to what precisely? If i take x amount of weight and lift it slowly for 4 reps then next workout lift it for 6 reps have I not simply got stronger?


    Paul.


    #11
    shreklikedave
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/05 22:45:44 (permalink)
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    Thats very interesting reading there mate.

    That basically implies that the optimum load to use would be the maximum possible.

    I therefore take it that a number of reps are performed simply to reduce the chance of injury by performing sets of 1rm?

    If you could train using 1rm only would that lead to the best gains in regards to hypertrophy? (discount other factors such as conective tissue strain, neural factore etc, this is a purely hyperthetical question).
    #12
    TREBOR
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/07 23:37:11 (permalink)
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    Dumb question what does univerally mean?
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    TREBOR
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/08 00:02:14 (permalink)
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    oops sorry j5 i wasnt taking the p1ss
    #14
    GTM
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/08 12:12:10 (permalink)
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    Interesting results...

    I see what they're trying to prove.. however, given the trend of gains between the 9-11RM and 3-5RM.. I'd be very interested to see the results of training at 6-8RM.. and 1-2RM. Without these results it's a bit premature to assume that 1RM would be the most ideal training scheme for pure hypertrophy alone. Very few systems.. (be they mechanical/electronic/biological).. are linear in their responses. Not everything in life turns out to be intuitive.

    Of course there is again the issue that it is just one study. From a purely scientific viewpoint.. unless the results are repeated in other studies .. and the study protocols are double checked by other researchers.. it will little more than "interesting".

    I'm not saying it should be dissmissed.. just treated with caution and not openly accepted just because it seems to make sense.

    GTM
    #15
    gazdai
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/08 18:27:03 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JohnnyFive

    Univerally is how they spell universally on planet typo.


    LMAO J5!
    #16
    shreklikedave
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/09 21:07:10 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JohnnyFive
    Discounting all other factors, the answer is yes, simple as that. When you include other things such as the need for CNS recovery, injury, the need for adequate volume, then 3-5 reps becomes more practically realistic.



    I was thinking about this today as it happens.

    Say for example you started with a weight you could do 4 sets at 6 repetitions.

    Each week you increase the weight and after a few weeks you reps drop.

    You continue to increase the weight each week until you reach the point where you can only manage 4 sets of 3 repetitions.

    At that stage you take a one week break/ 1 week 'light' training then go back to 6 reps but this time starting from a higher weight than previously.

    Continue the steps outlined above and increase the starting (6 rep) weight each new cycle.

    How does that sound?
    #17
    shreklikedave
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/10 12:30:24 (permalink)
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    In theory progress would be seen at the begining of the next cycle when the weight used for the starting number of reps (6 for example) would be higher than the previous cycle.

    Obviously each week the individual would be striving for 6 reps but the weight would still increase until only 3 is possible.

    This isnt how i train but i was toying about with the idea. At present i do 4-6 reps on most things (depending on the exercise)which works fine. The only problem is that you get to a stage where you increase the weight and you can no longer achieve the desired number of reps. When this happens i generally keep the weight the same and aim for more reps until i can get 4x6/ 4x4 or whatever i am after.

    I was wondering whether the aproach mentioned above would be a better way to progress given the notion that load is more important than volume. It also has a simple form of periodisation built in to it both in terms of load and rep range.

    #18
    Blood Sport
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/10 17:42:14 (permalink)
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    Also You can Progressively increase Resistance (Weight) where as you Realistically can't With Volume. For Example as you progress you go from say Deadlifting 100Kg's to 150Kg's to 200Kg's Etc ... But you Go from doing 5x5 to 20x20 to 50x50!

    In short, With a body building Diet Ronnie Coleman Deadlifts 800lbs for 3 Reps and has a Massive back, I Deadlift 140Kg's and have a Relativley Sh1t Back, Whilst a 14 Year old Pipsqueek deadlifting 50Kg's has a Relatively sized back. I know it's not that simple, but just Worked in my head for abit!
    #19
    Snaeke
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    RE: SuperSlow for bodybuilding 2004/02/11 01:08:51 (permalink)
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    From my own personal experience, for strength/mass, doing the reps "super slow" is "super stupid". [:p]
    It has absolutely no freakin place in any of my routines & it never will.
    As was already pointed out, doing them slower means having to use less weight, which is just like doing higher reps with less weight. I was stuck at the same amount of weight on my flat bench press for about 4 weeks doing that crap while wondering why the f*** I was unable to add weight every 1-2 weeks like before. [:(!]

    Strength progression will be slow moving like pond water when lifting like that. The only real use I see for it would be in some goofy-type of endurance/cutting routine. But I guess to each their own.
    The real kicker is he says:

    "superslow strengthen muscles, increases bone density and in general promotes better over all conditioning these factors all contribute to the prevention of injury."

    I would love to know where he came up with the idea that it "increases bone density". If anything, heavier weight stresses the skeletal system more as opposed to using lighter weight. Using a little common sense should tell you which would have a greater effect on promoting "increased bone density".
    #20
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