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TKD critique please!

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1ManRiot
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2007/06/07 22:01:58 (permalink)
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TKD critique please!

Currently cutting by way of carb cycling, I want to have a crack at TKD to drop the last few %, see how my body responds to it, an experiment if you like so I know how to use it to greater affect when I have more than 180lbs LBM I plan on going at this for six weeks, and hoping to adapt in 2 weeks (so 4 weeks in ketosis).

6 foot, currently around 85kg. 7 x AM fasted-cardio, 4 day weights split.

The number in brackets represents (Protein Carbs Fats) in grams

05.50 Wake
    Black coffee, water

06.30 Steady cardio
    Water

07.15 PWO Shake
    Whey, water, flax oil (30 0 10)

08.00 Arrive at work
    3 Eggs (21 0 15)

10.30
    Chicken, green veg, ω3 cap, 5g whey (30 veg 1)

12.30
    Chicken, cheese, green veg, ω3 cap, olive oil (30 veg 15)

15.00
    Chicken, green veg, ω3 cap, 5g whey (30 veg 1)

16.30
    Black coffee

17.30 Train -30
     Shake with whey, milk powder & sugar flavour (20 25 0)

18.30 PWO Shake
    Shake with whey, milk powder & sugar flavour (30 35 0)

19.15
    75g Beef, cheese, green veg, 5g whey (25 veg 20)

21.00
    ZMA, then 3 Eggs (21 0 15)

22.00
    75g Beef, 75g cottage cheese, green veg, 5g whey (45 veg 20)

22.15 Sleep
    (whey & flax if wake)

Total:
Protein 282 (1128 cals)
CHO 60 (240 cals)
Fat 97 ( 873 cals)
KCals 2241


Questions Quote them please!
  • Diet = or ?
  • I planned on starting it by tapering off the cycling, IE, hi carbs yesterday, low today, low tomorrow, low Saturday, low Sunday (play football) then drop them by Monday and onwards. or ?
  • Would you recommend a refeed day or stick with 60g CHO a day around training?


Comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc all welcome, though constructive only please

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    USA DEALS
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/07 22:14:55 (permalink)
    Looks ok for a TKD but move the meal at 19.15 back further after PWO.

    Have the eggs with the last meal before bed with the steak and cottage cheese.
    #2
    1ManRiot
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/07 22:17:34 (permalink)
    Cheers Gaz, 60g+ protein not be a little too much for one sitting? Shall I reduce the c/c and beef a little?

    Also, would you recommend a small carb-refeed or is it not really necessary?

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    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/07 22:23:56 (permalink)
    With the carb intake you have, then at the weekend, up carbs a little, yes.

    Yes reduce the cottage cheese and the beef and get the eggs in there for their fats.
    #4
    1ManRiot
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/07 22:27:49 (permalink)
    Cheers for that. I'll think about it over the weekend and decide if I'll go through with it! I'll be back in 6 weeks to get help coming off it!

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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/08 08:43:43 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO

    Looks ok for a TKD



    is it ketogenic?
    #6
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/08 09:54:14 (permalink)
    Well he wouldnt know for sure without testing, i.e. ketostix.
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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/08 19:14:31 (permalink)
    get in ketosis
    only disrupt it to train
    get back in
    SO fibres during cardio will ensure no requirement for CHO post cardio (as stated)
    no requirement to refeed*
    stay in ketosis on off days
    *run the diet for short periods
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    1ManRiot
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/08 20:04:19 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee
    get in ketosis
    1 only disrupt it to train
    get back in
    SO fibres during cardio will ensure no requirement for CHO post cardio (as stated)
    no requirement to refeed*
    stay in ketosis on off days
    2 *run the diet for short periods


    1) So carbs prior to training, during and immediately after weight training, no changes for steady-state cardio?

    2) I plan on going for 6 weeks, that sound ok?

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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/08 20:08:17 (permalink)
    can have them pre work out if you want

    6 weeks would be fine

    none required post cardio if low intensity
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    1ManRiot
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/08 20:11:09 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    can have them pre work out if you want

    6 weeks would be fine

    none required post cardio if low intensity

    Ta

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    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 10:19:23 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee

    SO fibres during cardio will ensure no requirement for CHO post cardio (as stated)



    Hi mate.

    So how does this differ exactly when you pulled me up on it before when i said no requirement for carbs post SS cardio? ? ?
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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 10:25:27 (permalink)
    because this is a ketogenic diet and if you are ketogenic why disrupt it?

    if you are not (as i stated to you in the previous) there is no point excluding carbs

    ketogenic Vs non ketogenic

    its all well and dandy saying X, Y and Z but when you look at the big picture ensure the ifo stated is related to the diet in question

    hence my intial comments in this thread RE is it ketogenic

    or do you think i am off the mark?
    #13
    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 10:28:31 (permalink)
    No mate, just interested in your response as always.

    Thanks.

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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 10:29:28 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: OoOGazOoO

    No mate, just interested in your response as always.

    Thanks.




    arent you going to suggest something different as i am under the impression you disagree?

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    OoOGazOoO
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 10:33:28 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: ToxicToffee


    you disagree?




    Not at all, you stated the merits for both arguments.

    I believe both have merits, as you have stated above, ketosis vs non-ketogenic diets.

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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 10:35:20 (permalink)
    yes but you have stated above the TKD will re feed which would go cycled then?
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    Danny.
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 16:31:23 (permalink)
    Sorry to jump in but i've read the following cut and paste in an article about TKD Diets.

    Refeed Period:

    On the refeed side of things, in a CKD the main purpose of the refeed period is as already stated, to restore muscle glycogen levels. When individuals on a CKD do their refeeds, they are also by default eating many more calories on these days as well.

    On a diet that does bring calories quite low, it is a good idea to do some type of refeed period of higher calorie eating in an effort to make sure your metabolism does not slow down too much and to give your body a break from the rigors of dieting.

    Therefore, even on a TKD, if you are still dieting pretty hard (meaning with the additional carbs you are still quite low calorie), adding in a couple of days of higher calorie eating is a good plan. You can add a great deal more carbohydrates if you wish, or take a more balanced approach adding a combination of more protein and fat in.

    Since you are eating carbohydrates during the week you may not be quite as glycogen depleted as someone on a CKD therefore wouldn't need to 'carb load' in a sense as they do on a CKD. Definitely though, it would be a good idea to make sure a fair amount of this refeed does come from carbohydrates as if you are exercising heavy you are still likely to be low on glycogen levels.


    Does anyone have any views on this?

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    ToxicToffee
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 16:34:10 (permalink)
    no requirement

    re feeds are PWO

    either cycle carbs in ketosis or target them IMO

    i wouldnt run a chronically low CHO diet for a lengthy period but would either cycle them or target them

    not both

    you have to look how depleted you are, if you are going to overspill and so on and so on

    i prefer to implement TKDs when splits are 4-5 days on weights, cycling carbs in ketosis on lower day splits or staying out of ketosis and cycling them to suit
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    Danny.
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    RE: TKD critique please! 2007/06/09 16:58:56 (permalink)
    How long IYO could you 'safely' run a TKD for?

    #20
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