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Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?)

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beholder69
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2007/06/19 19:20:24 (permalink)
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Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?)

Ok....... I started taking Rebound XT to boost my testosterone levels and supress estrogen a bit 1 month ago at minimum dosage (25mg/day). I also started doing cardio,dropped bf% significantly, changed my diet a bit and really started feeling a lot different...Here are the results:

BEFORE:

Testosterone: 470 ng/dl (RR: 400-1080) = 16,4 nmol/L (RR: 13,88 - 37,48)
Estrogens: 61 pg/ml (RR: 29-127)

AFTER:

Testosterone 825 ng/dl = 28,63 nmol/L ()
Estrogens: 89,9 pg/ml (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


I must be the only man on earth who managed to almost double his testosterone while raising his estrogens by 50%

Anyone can think what happened? What am I supposed to do now for my estrogen levels without shattering my testosterone???

Any help greatly appreciated
post edited by beholder69 - 2007/06/19 22:49:25

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    CLIFFORD2K1
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 19:42:35 (permalink)
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    excess testosterone atromatises mate. more test = more estrogen.
    were u taking the rxt at the time of the second test? if you had just stopped it, it could be a slight estrogen rebound
    Daari
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 19:46:10 (permalink)
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    i wonder how long test levels would be elevated for after discontinuing RXT?
    beholder69
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 20:12:07 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: CLIFFORD2K1

    excess testosterone atromatises mate. more test = more estrogen.
    were u taking the rxt at the time of the second test? if you had just stopped it, it could be a slight estrogen rebound


    Yes,but let's take it step by step:

    1) RXT binds to aromatase thus, reducing testosterone to estrogen conversion
    2) Estrogen is reduced
    3) Body senses the lack of estrogen and produces more testosterone
    4) Testosterone raises
    5) Aromatase would/should try and convert more testosterone into estrogen
    6) Steps 1-5 should repeat themselves

    Now if estrogen was raised by 50%, the body shouldn't have any need to produce more testo (which it did)

    Unless my testosterone production was immense so RXT couldn't stop the conversion of a significant part of it into estrogen. In this case, if I could really produce that much testo, was my endocrin system sleeping 1 month ago when instead of 825 and 89,9 I had 470 and 61???

    BTW I had my tests the last day of taking RXT. I had the exams in the morning and in the evening took the last capsule, so it was while I was still on RXT. Anyway,it's supposed not to cause an estrogen rebound. If it does, then I'm f*cked!

    What I don't know is how the whole system will react now and how I can bring down estrogen if not by a product that's supposed to shatter it even to unwanted levels
    post edited by beholder69 - 2007/06/19 22:49:42
    CLIFFORD2K1
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 20:35:35 (permalink)
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    i cannot explain these results at all surely the significant drop of bf should have also made estro drop. i suppose the below is possible
    Unless my testosterone production was immense so RXT couldn't stop the conversion of a significant part of it into estrogen


    also as far as a rebound is concerned im sure any product that lowers estro could possibly cause a rebound
    L J
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 20:36:19 (permalink)
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    Very interesting mate, is it the original RXT (ATD) or RR you were taking?
    Would be a good idea to get tested in a few weeks time see if everything returns to previous levels
    beholder69
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 20:52:16 (permalink)
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    It was the original (ATD). I will get tested in about 1,5 month. I hope things will be more clear then.

    Clifford the problem is what will happen now. If indeed my current testo production is so great, then it should lower both testo(I hope not much) and estrogen. If estrogen raises (although I cannot imagine why since it's so high), then I don't really know what to do. I guess I'll have to wait and find out. I just hope I don't get any 150 pg/ml results because I'll start banging my head on the wall

    Hopefully the end result will be better than when I started
    post edited by beholder69 - 2007/06/19 20:56:40
    Daari
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 21:39:18 (permalink)
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    Hopefully the end result will be better than when I started


    so the effects of ATD continue for about 1-1.5 months?
    beholder69
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 22:24:38 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Adil

    Hopefully the end result will be better than when I started


    so the effects of ATD continue for about 1-1.5 months?


    No,the actual effects last while you're taking it and then the balancing starts. The thing is, you usually have raised test/ lowered to diminished estrogen, so estrogen starts raising and testosterone gradually falling.

    I had an idea a while ago but I don't know if something like that is valid or not.

    Since my testo rised, this means that the body sensed a lack of estrogen. So estrogen had indeed fallen. Now I have higher estrogen than before so obviously a rebound occured. If that's the case,then perhaps my testo production was so much that RXT could not "work" anymore, thus being like I had stopped taking it. That's the only thing I can think of. If that's really what happened and the rebound has already occured then I should be a happy man as my current levels *are* good and I shouldn't be expecting much of a change.

    Since my estrogen levels are high, I cannot imagine why the body would want to produce more TBH
    Sonicology
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 22:45:11 (permalink)
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    Interesting results, reminds me of discussing chemical equilibrium in physical chemistry whilst I was doing my degree.

    Consider this; your body maintains a (relatively) stable equilibrium between testosterone and estradiol. By adding an aromatase inhibitor you have swung the equilibrium in favour of testosterone and your body has countered this by producing more testosterone in the hopes that it will be aromatised into estradiol thus restoring the equilibrium and bringing you back to homeostasis. This has only been partially successful however, as the equilibrium has still swung more in favour of testosterone than it was previously (T has raised by ~90%, whilst E2 has only raised by ~50%). If you had used a stronger AI then the results would be scewed even more in favour of T, but 25mg of ATD is still a relatively low dose so E2 is not overly supressed.

    Some factors to consider; I'm sure I remember reading that in some tests ATD is falsely detected as testosterone, thus giving an erroneous reading. Also, some metabolites of ATD appear to be a prohormone to the steroid boldenone (Equipoise) although how this would effect your results I am unsure [statement from the OCB regarding this below].

    The OCB/IFPA underwent an experiment to see if the over the counter supplement known as ATD would cause a subject to fail a urinalysis. ATD is marketed as a “naturally occurring testosterone booster” and acts as an anti-estrogen. ATD is an aromatase inhibitor, in other words, it binds to and inhibits the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen.

    The subject submitted a sample that was clear of any banned substances. After taking ATD for 2 weeks, the subject resubmitted a urine sample. This time, the sample came back positive for metabolites of the anabolic steroid boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol). (The metabolites were 5beta-androst-1-en-17beta-ol-3-one and 5beta-androst-1-en-3beta-ol-17-one)

    It is believed that ATD shares similar metabolites as 1,4-androstadienedione, a prohormone of boldenone. ATD products may also contain contaminants containing this prohormone, which would result in the positive test for boldenone.

    ATD’s chemical name is 1,4,6-Androstatrien-3,17-dione (ADT), but natural athletes need to be very vigilant in selecting their supplements. ATD is often referred to using deceptive names such as 3,17-keto-etiochol-triene or 3,17-dioxoetioallocholan-1,4,6-triene, for example. ATD is found in many over the counter supplements including, but not limited to Rebound XT (Designer Supplements), Novedex XT (Gaspari Nutrition), Inhibit-E (SNS), and Attitude (SAN)

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    beholder69
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 22:57:46 (permalink)
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    Cheers for that,but just to point out some things.

    First of all, I asked the lab and found out the values for estrogen is not for E2 but the sum of all estrogens. So while I thought I had raised levels to begin with,I had optimum ones

    Of course this changes nothing regarding the equilibrium you mentioned.

    What really bothers me is what will happen now. As I said in my previous post,in order for test to be raised, estrogen should have fallen,no? So since it had fallen and then it went up,this means that at some point RXT stopped working(possibly due to the low dose) and the body managed to raise estrogen to levels that should match the higher test. But if that's the case I shouldn't expect any rise in estrogen,should I? It's high;the body doesn't need to raise it any more,does it?

    As for ATD being shown as testo, I had seen this too but I'm pretty certain this was the case only with saliva tests and not blood tests
    post edited by beholder69 - 2007/06/19 22:59:13
    Sonicology
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 23:18:01 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: beholder69

    But if that's the case I shouldn't expect any rise in estrogen,should I? It's high;the body doesn't need to raise it any more,does it?



    The body will attempt to maintain equilibrium - if that means raising estrogen levels then that is what it will try to do. It's the ratio of androgens to estrogens that is the issue, not the total level of either.

    Unless you are suffering from the development of female secondary sex characteristics (ie gyno) then estrogen should not be a huge concern - it's anabolic and maintains healthy bones and lipid levels.

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    Keane
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 23:25:30 (permalink)
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    So if you where to take Nolva on its own at say 20mg per day, woulld this raise test levels significantly?
    post edited by Keane - 2007/06/19 23:54:02
    beholder69
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/19 23:26:16 (permalink)
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    Ok,thanks a lot mate! That puts me a bit at ease I will have tests in 1,5-2 months just to see how it's going but if it's the ratio that counts and I'm within normal (and close to optimal)values then I guess everything will be alright. As for gyno,fortunately I don't have any. Ok,I don't have the smallest breasts in the world(never did),but it's not gyno, nor have I seen any difference up to now. On the contrary,as I lose fat, my chest seems better day by day
    post edited by beholder69 - 2007/06/19 23:27:42
    mad_cereal_lover
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/20 13:13:56 (permalink)
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    I think also mate you have to bear in mind the fact that you are only looking at total estrogens. Testosterone aromatises to estradiol (17-B) but there are other estrogens produced from other androgens etc, so you are not simply detected estrogen that has been the result of a testosterone increase, ie. estradiol.

    mcl
    beholder69
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    RE: Testo Results after RXT (WTF?!? Is there a doc in the house?) 2007/06/20 18:59:09 (permalink)
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    Thanks for that mate,good point! Just saw that estrone is an estrogen that can get by itself in men up to 72 pg/ml with no abnormality

    I just hope they don't get to abnormal levels now that I've stopped RXT
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