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The 'Big Brother' State?

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FatboyGinger
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2009/07/17 21:13:31 (permalink)

The 'Big Brother' State?

I've seen alot of people on this forum moan about how Britain has become a 'Big Brother' state(there is a thread about it now).
People seem to be complaining about the amount of security cameras we have, another how the government can track you on the net, the DNA database etc.
I don't steal things, so I'm not bothered about CCTV. In fact I praise its introduction on buses.
Secondly, I don't watch child porn on the internet. If the government can track down paedophiles by tracking peoples activity on the net, I support this.
And lastly, I don't commit crimes. I don't really care whether the government has my DNA or not, but, for example, if I were to commit a crime, and my DNA were at the scene, I could be identified very easily. Surely, this must be a good thing - bringing criminals to justice quickly and efficiently.

My point is this- the reason I can think people are so against the 'Big Brother' state is because they have something to hide. Surely, if you don't engage in illicit activity, the measures the government has taken will lead to safer streets?
Does anyone else think this? What are you views?

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    dementia
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 21:28:30 (permalink)







    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body... but rather to skid in sideways, totally
    worn out, shouting
    Holy ****... What a ride!!"    
    #2
    dementia
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 21:30:41 (permalink)







    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body... but rather to skid in sideways, totally
    worn out, shouting
    Holy ****... What a ride!!"    
    #3
    IamAdonis
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 21:38:49 (permalink)
    I agree with what u say but the problem comes in the future when laws are changed, which you wouldnt agree with if they where to happen now. 
    #4
    tac
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 21:54:14 (permalink)
    FatboyGinger

    I've seen alot of people on this forum moan about how Britain has become a 'Big Brother' state(there is a thread about it now).
    People seem to be complaining about the amount of security cameras we have, another how the government can track you on the net, the DNA database etc.
    I don't steal things, so I'm not bothered about CCTV. In fact I praise its introduction on buses.
    Secondly, I don't watch child porn on the internet. If the government can track down paedophiles by tracking peoples activity on the net, I support this.
    And lastly, I don't commit crimes. I don't really care whether the government has my DNA or not, but, for example, if I were to commit a crime, and my DNA were at the scene, I could be identified very easily. Surely, this must be a good thing - bringing criminals to justice quickly and efficiently.

    My point is this- the reason I can think people are so against the 'Big Brother' state is because they have something to hide. Surely, if you don't engage in illicit activity, the measures the government has taken will lead to safer streets?
    Does anyone else think this? What are you views?


    With respect, this view is very naive - and is the one the government most often trots out.

    If you follow this view, then logically you wouldnt complain about the government putting cameras into your living room, civil servants listening in to every phone call you make, etc etc. After all, if you've got nothing to hide....

    Hitler used exactly this arguement to justify state powers in nazi germany. the soviet regime used exactly the same argument. The Chinese government, the North Koreans, Saddam Hussein while he was still in power - ALL of them used basically this argument to justify the state's power over its people... "if they're doing nothing wrong they have nothing to fear"

    Some of us, however, value privacy. The reason I dont wish to be watched is not because Im doing anything untoward, but simply because, as a law-abiding citizen in a supposedly 'free' country I feel I should have the right not to be constantly snooped. Im not looking at child porn on the internet either, Im probably logged on here, or doing some work, or maybe Ive left the computer logged on while I write some of my crappy poetry. I happen not to want some low-level suit from some government department not to read that, thankyou very much, not because any of the above is illegal, but simply because ITS MY BLOODY BUSINESS AND NO-ONE ELSES.

    the emphasis of the law USED to be the other way round - not 'if youve nothing to hide then you wont mind us watching you' but 'if youve done nothing wrong then your entitled to your privacy'. In the space of my lifetime thats changed in this country. The government and police are SUPPOSED to be there so serve us law abiding tax paying citizens, not to snoop on us as if we were crooks!

    Im against the 'Big Brother' state NOT because I have something to hide, but because I believe in freedom. When our own government watches us like this, the terrorists have already  won



    #5
    dementia
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 21:55:54 (permalink)
    tac

    FatboyGinger

    I've seen alot of people on this forum moan about how Britain has become a 'Big Brother' state(there is a thread about it now).
    People seem to be complaining about the amount of security cameras we have, another how the government can track you on the net, the DNA database etc.
    I don't steal things, so I'm not bothered about CCTV. In fact I praise its introduction on buses.
    Secondly, I don't watch child porn on the internet. If the government can track down paedophiles by tracking peoples activity on the net, I support this.
    And lastly, I don't commit crimes. I don't really care whether the government has my DNA or not, but, for example, if I were to commit a crime, and my DNA were at the scene, I could be identified very easily. Surely, this must be a good thing - bringing criminals to justice quickly and efficiently.

    My point is this- the reason I can think people are so against the 'Big Brother' state is because they have something to hide. Surely, if you don't engage in illicit activity, the measures the government has taken will lead to safer streets?
    Does anyone else think this? What are you views?


    With respect, this view is very naive - and is the one the government most often trots out.

    If you follow this view, then logically you wouldnt complain about the government putting cameras into your living room, civil servants listening in to every phone call you make, etc etc. After all, if you've got nothing to hide....

    Hitler used exactly this arguement to justify state powers in nazi germany. the soviet regime used exactly the same argument. The Chinese government, the North Koreans, Saddam Hussein while he was still in power - ALL of them used basically this argument to justify the state's power over its people... "if they're doing nothing wrong they have nothing to fear"

    Some of us, however, value privacy. The reason I dont wish to be watched is not because Im doing anything untoward, but simply because, as a law-abiding citizen in a supposedly 'free' country I feel I should have the right not to be constantly snooped. Im not looking at child porn on the internet either, Im probably logged on here, or doing some work, or maybe Ive left the computer logged on while I write some of my crappy poetry. I happen not to want some low-level suit from some government department not to read that, thankyou very much, not because any of the above is illegal, but simply because ITS MY BLOODY BUSINESS AND NO-ONE ELSES.

    the emphasis of the law USED to be the other way round - not 'if youve nothing to hide then you wont mind us watching you' but 'if youve done nothing wrong then your entitled to your privacy'. In the space of my lifetime thats changed in this country. The government and police are SUPPOSED to be there so serve us law abiding tax paying citizens, not to snoop on us as if we were crooks!

    Im against the 'Big Brother' state NOT because I have something to hide, but because I believe in freedom. When our own government watches us like this, the terrorists have already  won


    And what tac said







    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body... but rather to skid in sideways, totally
    worn out, shouting
    Holy ****... What a ride!!"    
    #6
    JK2
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 22:25:00 (permalink)
    tac

    FatboyGinger

    I've seen alot of people on this forum moan about how Britain has become a 'Big Brother' state(there is a thread about it now).
    People seem to be complaining about the amount of security cameras we have, another how the government can track you on the net, the DNA database etc.
    I don't steal things, so I'm not bothered about CCTV. In fact I praise its introduction on buses.
    Secondly, I don't watch child porn on the internet. If the government can track down paedophiles by tracking peoples activity on the net, I support this.
    And lastly, I don't commit crimes. I don't really care whether the government has my DNA or not, but, for example, if I were to commit a crime, and my DNA were at the scene, I could be identified very easily. Surely, this must be a good thing - bringing criminals to justice quickly and efficiently.

    My point is this- the reason I can think people are so against the 'Big Brother' state is because they have something to hide. Surely, if you don't engage in illicit activity, the measures the government has taken will lead to safer streets?
    Does anyone else think this? What are you views?


    With respect, this view is very naive - and is the one the government most often trots out.

    If you follow this view, then logically you wouldnt complain about the government putting cameras into your living room, civil servants listening in to every phone call you make, etc etc. After all, if you've got nothing to hide....

    Hitler used exactly this arguement to justify state powers in nazi germany. the soviet regime used exactly the same argument. The Chinese government, the North Koreans, Saddam Hussein while he was still in power - ALL of them used basically this argument to justify the state's power over its people... "if they're doing nothing wrong they have nothing to fear"

    Some of us, however, value privacy. The reason I dont wish to be watched is not because Im doing anything untoward, but simply because, as a law-abiding citizen in a supposedly 'free' country I feel I should have the right not to be constantly snooped. Im not looking at child porn on the internet either, Im probably logged on here, or doing some work, or maybe Ive left the computer logged on while I write some of my crappy poetry. I happen not to want some low-level suit from some government department not to read that, thankyou very much, not because any of the above is illegal, but simply because ITS MY BLOODY BUSINESS AND NO-ONE ELSES.

    the emphasis of the law USED to be the other way round - not 'if youve nothing to hide then you wont mind us watching you' but 'if youve done nothing wrong then your entitled to your privacy'. In the space of my lifetime thats changed in this country. The government and police are SUPPOSED to be there so serve us law abiding tax paying citizens, not to snoop on us as if we were crooks!

    Im against the 'Big Brother' state NOT because I have something to hide, but because I believe in freedom. When our own government watches us like this, the terrorists have already  won


    All of this.

    And, do you think the British government has always got it right? Always outlawed and marginalised and criminalised and restricted the rights of the correct groups of people? Never acted duplicitously or corruptly?

    #7
    Puzzle
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 23:13:50 (permalink)
    If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear? Surely everyone can think of a form of surveillance or state power they would object to. Reducing crime at all costs is not acceptable because we value our privacy, freedoms, and because power will always be misused and abused.

    On the rare occasions that the government means well, they still find a way of making their decisions look malicious; but I doubt the road to hell will even be paved.

    Massimo, MrMunch & Me.
     
    #8
    Suspirio
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 23:21:42 (permalink)
    I have nothing to hide, but it's my right to hide it anyway.
    #9
    galenkia
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/17 23:24:30 (permalink)
    Suspirio

    I have nothing to hide, but it's my right to hide it anyway.


    I have plenty to hide and intend to keep it hidden.
    #10
    Anvil
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 00:04:06 (permalink)
    They steal your money, commit mass murder with that money, try and tell you what to do with the money they let you keep and then they want to know what you are doing every moment of the day...and people think this is ok
    #11
    teapot
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 00:10:37 (permalink)
    tac

    FatboyGinger

    I've seen alot of people on this forum moan about how Britain has become a 'Big Brother' state(there is a thread about it now).
    People seem to be complaining about the amount of security cameras we have, another how the government can track you on the net, the DNA database etc.
    I don't steal things, so I'm not bothered about CCTV. In fact I praise its introduction on buses.
    Secondly, I don't watch child porn on the internet. If the government can track down paedophiles by tracking peoples activity on the net, I support this.
    And lastly, I don't commit crimes. I don't really care whether the government has my DNA or not, but, for example, if I were to commit a crime, and my DNA were at the scene, I could be identified very easily. Surely, this must be a good thing - bringing criminals to justice quickly and efficiently.

    My point is this- the reason I can think people are so against the 'Big Brother' state is because they have something to hide. Surely, if you don't engage in illicit activity, the measures the government has taken will lead to safer streets?
    Does anyone else think this? What are you views?


    With respect, this view is very naive - and is the one the government most often trots out.

    If you follow this view, then logically you wouldnt complain about the government putting cameras into your living room, civil servants listening in to every phone call you make, etc etc. After all, if you've got nothing to hide....

    Hitler used exactly this arguement to justify state powers in nazi germany. the soviet regime used exactly the same argument. The Chinese government, the North Koreans, Saddam Hussein while he was still in power - ALL of them used basically this argument to justify the state's power over its people... "if they're doing nothing wrong they have nothing to fear"

    Some of us, however, value privacy. The reason I dont wish to be watched is not because Im doing anything untoward, but simply because, as a law-abiding citizen in a supposedly 'free' country I feel I should have the right not to be constantly snooped. Im not looking at child porn on the internet either, Im probably logged on here, or doing some work, or maybe Ive left the computer logged on while I write some of my crappy poetry. I happen not to want some low-level suit from some government department not to read that, thankyou very much, not because any of the above is illegal, but simply because ITS MY BLOODY BUSINESS AND NO-ONE ELSES.

    the emphasis of the law USED to be the other way round - not 'if youve nothing to hide then you wont mind us watching you' but 'if youve done nothing wrong then your entitled to your privacy'. In the space of my lifetime thats changed in this country. The government and police are SUPPOSED to be there so serve us law abiding tax paying citizens, not to snoop on us as if we were crooks!

    Im against the 'Big Brother' state NOT because I have something to hide, but because I believe in freedom. When our own government watches us like this, the terrorists have already  won


    Well put.
    #12
    lilbigman
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 01:24:53 (permalink)
    They need to upgrade CCTV, because at the moment a lot of it seems very poor, especially when you compare it to the technology out there. "Do you recognise this man?" no 'cause it's a ****ing blurry blob on the telly. A couple of CCTV cameras around housing estates would be alright as well. Robberies, murders and rapes don't just happen in towns and cities.

    Lead guitarist and vocals of a one man band...
    #13
    Yohimbe
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 07:54:34 (permalink)
    In the most part, surveillance isn't there to protect us.  It's there to protect the state and elite interests from us.


    #14
    Yohimbe
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 08:03:14 (permalink)
    Because eventually the state gets to stop barbecues.  Police paid to trawl Facebook for 'intelligence' on locals i.e. people having a party on private land.

    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Pissy-Poo-UK-Stazi-stop-party-m3502641.aspx
    post edited by Yohimbe - 2009/07/18 08:11:50
    #15
    Boss Redd
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 08:26:32 (permalink)
    OP has alot to learn aout this world

    I do a lot of push ups and sit ups. And I drink plenty of milk.

    #16
    daveshow
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 18:18:27 (permalink)
    I'm totally against this big brother thing. The old your not doing anything illegal you have nothing to fear is a load of pish. Civil rights of straigth white males who work hard for a living are being erroded slowly but surely. Criminals have more rights than us.

    heres some scenarios of why this is a bad idea.

    Say I like to watch porn sometimes I watch kinky porn which may seem strange to some but if its between consenting adults who cares. Suddenly some demented burd falsey accuses me of raping her and it goes to court. The police and prosecution use the fact I watch porn and paint you out to be some kind of demented porn addicted sex fiend. Already you are painted to be a deviant.

    Another one could be say you are ina fightand rightly or wrongly you badly beat the person. Suddenly if i've been tracked on the internet or the things I buy like action movies for example  they could make you out to be totally obsessed with violence.

    Would you like the government listening in on you and your misses having sex or having all your details on record ready to be lost or sold to conmen?

     


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    #17
    iaink
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 18:24:36 (permalink)
    I always wanted an older bro to watch me! Now I have :)

    Stonehenge
     
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    #18
    drab4
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 18:27:34 (permalink)
    This is one issue which seems to unite people from across the political spectrum

    Obviously all our opinions are worthless and will be ignored by those in power, but still it's nice for the right and the left wing to agree on something


    #19
    Aim4
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    Re:The 'Big Brother' State? 2009/07/18 18:34:40 (permalink)
    Lets put cameras inside public toilets so we can catch coke heads snorting a cheeky line.
    Seems completely rational to me.

    Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds.
    #20
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