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Helpful ReplyThis is just murder

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teapot
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2015/01/21 23:43:08 (permalink)
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This is just murder

This video absolutely sickens me. wtf
 
http://www.telegraph.co.u...man-in-New-Jersey.html
#1
sillynarbie
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 01:22:49 (permalink)
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It's bad. I've never understood the trigger happiness of police in situations like that. The policeman has a gun pointed at the guy. If he picks up a gun and points it at you, even if he has the fastest draw in the west, you have 1-2 seconds to shoot him first. Why pre-empt it? Why not just wait until the man clearly picks up a gun and points it at you? I think those rules apply in war, so why not for domestic policeman?
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dazzz
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 04:30:39 (permalink)
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I couldn't tell from the video what happened, i thought he got out and pointed a gun. It was only when i read the story that i realised he didn't have it in his hand

  




 
#3
daKensta
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 05:18:31 (permalink)
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Edit:
 
FFS, he had both empty hands stuck out the window when he was shot.Give some men a hammer, and every problem becomes a nail, give some men a gun, and every problem becomes a nail you can shoot.
post edited by daKensta - 2015/01/22 05:28:05

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#4
Desmo
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 07:17:21 (permalink)
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To me the officer gave some pretty damn clear instructions and the situation was getting tense. If the guy had done what he was told he'd still be alive. The passenger was the most sensible by keeping his hands outside the car at all times.

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#5
BROKEN
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 07:58:19 (permalink)
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I am not going to watch the video as I don't want to see someone being shot.
What I would say though is being put in a situation where firearms are present on both sides puts a hell of a lot stress on you and if adrenaline is pumping you will often make the wrong choice, or the choice you deem most appropriate to your own survival.
From what I have read on the thread, it sounds pretty cut and dry from an outsider, however put yourself in the position and I would be interested to know how you reacted.
Also consider how many times they have been in a similiar situation and things have turned pretty bad rapidly.
 
So I am not disagreeing with the thoughts in the thread, I am just saying that when you are sitting remote at your desk on in your house, nice, warm and safe, it is easy to pass judgement.
#6
severen
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 09:15:25 (permalink)
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the amount of times a cop's pulled someone over and been shot just underlines why they do stuff like this. fkd if i would take a choice. what is it about people that think they're being clever about getting argumentative and threatening to someone with a firearm?
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stinking_dylan
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 09:22:12 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby BROKEN 2015/01/22 09:24:36
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Not seen the video as I agree with BROKEN, don't want to see somebody getting shot.
 
But, my thoughts on the matter are if he was given clear instructions and he disobeyed, then it is incredibly unfortunate but what should the cop have done?  He's human and under threat and just trying to do his job without getting himself killed.

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#8
WhiteSnake
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 09:42:28 (permalink)
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Reminds me of when Frank Drebin was being stood down on Naked Gun and was handing over his badge and gun and he says: "Just think, next time I shoot someone I could get arrested!"
 
Although the victim did spend 13yrs in the slammer for shooting at police.
#9
Uriel
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 10:06:17 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby BROKEN 2015/01/22 10:12:49
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You don't really see that much in the video. I think the officer was telling him to put his hands up and not move, after seeing a gun in the glovebox, and then the guy decides to step out for whatever reason, that's when the cop shot him. Can't really tell if he had something in his hands, but why did he decide to step out?
 
It's hard to draw conclusions from this but some things to keep in mind:
- It's pretty standard operation for "career criminals" to act completely casual and innocent, then make their move when you're off guard. When you see a cop making an arrest it's very common for the criminal to try to go around the cops orders, like the cop telling him to put his hands on the car and he just keeps facing the cop with his hands in the air (he's actually trying to delay the inevitable, hoping for a chance to make a run for it). Any seasoned cop knows this and doesn't take any chances, someone who doesn't cooperate fully gets taken down by force (be it immobilization, taser or in this case being shot) because they just don't know if the guy is gonna try to pull something.
- The guy that got shot, according to the article, had already done time for shooting at cops. Wouldn't put it past him to try the stunt again. There's also a lot of people who live a life of crime there, blacks especially and that's not racism, it's just the numbers. A criminal who's shot a cop has probably committed tons of crimes before being busted for that one, and the majority goes right back to that life when they get out of prison (they're just smarter and more careful so they don't get caught). Statistically the probability of him shooting the cop was high, if you were the cop would you take that chance?
post edited by Uriel - 2015/01/22 10:12:59
#10
phil3030
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 10:13:33 (permalink)
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The guy did not do what an armed officer instructed him to do. As above, not a chance I would be willing to take as an officer. A fool for not obeying instructions.

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Skrewdriver
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 10:19:04 (permalink)
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Just thankful that Police don't regularly carry guns in this country

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teapot
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 10:43:16 (permalink)
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The guy had his hands out of the window and was unarmed, how is that justification to kill him?
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BROKEN
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 10:56:09 (permalink)
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teapot
The guy had his hands out of the window and was unarmed, how is that justification to kill him?




I didn't say that justified killing him, I said that being in the situation gives a very different perspective to watching it from home/work.
 
The cop may have not shot him, been in almost the same situation the following day, however that time, the guy pulls a gun and shoots him.
 
I remember the first time I was given a rifle (SA80) and asked to patrol and check for suspect people and devices, sweeping cars etc. I spent the next 2hrs completely wired.
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stinking_dylan
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 10:58:08 (permalink)
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teapot
The guy had his hands out of the window and was unarmed, how is that justification to kill him?

Sorry, the guy is a convicted cop shooter, driving around with a gun in his car and deliberately disobeying the officer.  He knew exactly what he was doing.
If you were the cop, what would you have done?

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Blub2abs
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 11:19:43 (permalink)
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stinking_dylan
teapot
The guy had his hands out of the window and was unarmed, how is that justification to kill him?

Sorry, the guy is a convicted cop shooter, driving around with a gun in his car and deliberately disobeying the officer.  He knew exactly what he was doing.
If you were the cop, what would you have done?




I wouldn't become a cop.  Nor join the army, or any other organization where I might be put into a 'him-or-me situation.  It's bad enough there's a very, very small chance any civilian, in his lifetime, might be in that situation. 
 
But more fool him for increasing those odds through his occupational choice.
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stinking_dylan
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 11:24:06 (permalink)
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Blub2abs
But more fool him for increasing those odds through his occupational choice.

Do you mean the cop or the guy in the car?

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Skrewdriver
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 11:32:56 (permalink)
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I presume he means the Policeman (or cop, if you're American).  If everyone thought that way we'd have no Police.  
 
For me, it just shows how ridiculous it is to make guns legal!

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teapot
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 12:10:26 (permalink)
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stinking_dylan
teapot
The guy had his hands out of the window and was unarmed, how is that justification to kill him?

Sorry, the guy is a convicted cop shooter, driving around with a gun in his car and deliberately disobeying the officer.  He knew exactly what he was doing.
If you were the cop, what would you have done?




Rewind a bit there.
 
When the cop approaches the vehicle, this guy is a passenger, no way of knowing who he is. There is a gun in the car, ok, how many guns is it per person in the USA 5 to 1 or something, most people have guns, he didn't reach for it, he had his hands outside the window.
 
The cop basically freaks out and kills him because after shouting at the guy for 15 seconds, saying "i'm going to kill you!" with the guy having his hands out the window, because he opens the door he shoots him.
 
That is murder pure and simple, if he hadn't of shot him then, what could have possibly happened? Is the officers life in danger from an unarmed man, no is it hell.
 
How anyone can condone or justify this is totally beyond me. The cop made the situation, got rather frantic, lost his cool, gave the guy in the car no option to live! What did he want him to do? He asked for license, the guy goes to get it, officer notices a gun in the car and starts going mental.
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dementia
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Re: This is just murder 2015/01/22 12:19:40 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby BROKEN 2015/01/22 14:13:52
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Are we saying here that cops in America are deliberately, and without any reason, shooting black men in America. Get real, every day they are putting their lives on the line pulling criminals who wouldnt hesitate to use violence. They are basically put into situations where its him, or me, and they are just protecting themselves.







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