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Tren PCT - Overkill?

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thekingofleon7
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2009/08/02 10:56:37 (permalink)
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Tren PCT - Overkill?

Starting PCT tomorrow after 5 weeks of X-mass (tren) @ 120mgED

Have lost all libido since week 2, so want to get things up and running ASAP - is this PCT a bit over the top?

3 Week Standard Nolva Protocol
25 day Inhibit-e, tapered from 5-1 ED
5 days of Clomid (60-40-40-40-40) - this is all I have left over

Thanks

Aug 2006: 165lbs
June 2009: 208lbs - 15% BF
Current Goal: 210lbs - 10% BF
Long Term Goal: 224lbs - 10% BF Max

#1

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    PredatorNutrition
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/02 12:26:52 (permalink)
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    I would get rid of the clomid and get something to combat heightened cortisol post cycle. As for libido review the articles below and see what suits you best:

    http://www.muscletalk.c...stosterone-boosters.aspx
    http://www.muscletalk.c...ost-cycle-treatment.aspx




    #2
    Daari
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/02 16:17:02 (permalink)
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    I'm with pred.  I'd look to add a cortisol antagonist of some sort
    #3
    mdm
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/02 21:15:48 (permalink)
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    load of balloney mate - dont waste your money - this site recentley has become a honey pot for SOME distributors looking for easy prey to sell stuff that aint necessary- Mind you i have not seen Daari do this approach before - daari why anti cortisol?


    IMO

    buy some quality meats/fish - cortisiol can be controlled naturally through diet and sleep and staying calm

    i agree the pct is overkill!
    #4
    PredatorNutrition
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/02 22:46:02 (permalink)
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    MDM - If you believe that "quality" meat can control "cortisiol" then good luck to you:)



    #5
    mdm
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/02 23:11:04 (permalink)
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    no no no

    my point is if you eat correctly through out pct you can mantain gains much better than taking an anti cortisol!! the OP incurred about libido not sore joints and mantaing gains.

    its common knowlege that if you sleep well and dont get stressed out unecessarly your cortisol levels will be just fine and you can spend the money you would on food instead of bunk products.


    i do not like the way you push products on to people when you should be trying to educate them on best practices. Taking advantage of people


    OP - if you dont eat accordingly you will not keep your gains
    #6
    PredatorNutrition
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/03 13:08:58 (permalink)
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    1. Meat and fish or other apsects of diet DO NOT lower cortisol post cycle. If you believe so please indicate why this is so. Can you also explain specifically why you feel sleep can prevent a hormone induced cortisol rebound? Ditto stress control methods.

    Do you also think an anti estrogen is not required post cycle and that eating well and sleeping well will allow recovery to proceed just as swiftly as if using supplements to restore testicular function?

    2. Are you aware excess cortisol post cycle will have a malignant impact on libido, hence why some type of program is essential post cycle to reduce cortisol?

    3. What products are bunk products in your opinion? Please inform me. If you feel something I have written is inaccurate please specify.





    #7
    mdm
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/03 18:07:11 (permalink)
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    read my previous thread dont twist my words. its self explantory.
    but i will spell it out for you


    1. food - my point was before you twisted it - dont waster your money on anti cortisol products for pct spend it on quality foods e.g meats and fish. regular intakes of quality foods will help mantain gains much better than a tablet for cortisol suppression. what do you think?

    2.yes i hear your sales pitch on cortisol but the OP is using ATD and clomid for estrogen control / sex drive boost and rebound covered via clomid . Do you think another tablet is necessary for your point 2?

    3. Anti cortisol are a load of marketing tosh IMO. We are all entitiled to it - you seem to be pushing alot of this anti cortisol to anyone that cares to listen. Neewbs come on the forums seek qdvise ( iam not saying the OP is a neewb) and they need to be given correct information not swallow as many pills as possible and blow as much money as possible for each cycle.

    my points are clear and if anyone with a bit of pro hormone/ds experience came on here i would love to hear there opinion - but not many do and i dont blame them
    #8
    Daari
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/03 18:18:36 (permalink)
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    I've always been a fan of using an anti-cort for PCT, even before being a rep for musclefinesse.

    I've always been able to tell a difference with an anti-cort added to PCT.

    If you are insinuating that I only recommended an anti-cort to sell the single anti-cort product that musclefinesse stock; you are mistaken.

    If you are insinuating cortisol antagonists do not work (perhaps not ALL do); you are mistaken

    ATD and clomid will do little to tackle cortisol.  I would personally use the SERM + anti-cort as I'm not a big fan of ATD
    #9
    Daari
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/03 18:19:25 (permalink)
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    mdm
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/03 18:23:50 (permalink)
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    do you agree with my point d ?
    #11
    Daari
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/03 18:29:10 (permalink)
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    If he had inadequate food intake, then increasing food intake would provide more benefit than a cortisol antagonist.

    If he had adequate food intake already, then increasing food intake would provide less benefit than a cortisol antagonist.

    Like I said; I always recommend a cort antagonist in PCT; and have done for a while.  It really does make a difference, IME
    #12
    thekingofleon7
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/04 01:14:33 (permalink)
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    Now now fella's, lets not get out of hand here ;)

    Out of interest, what is a good Anti-cort product?

    I'm not going to use it this time around, as my whole training regieme/diet has gone to ****. Started lowering food intake, and doing daily cardio... but whats happened now, is i have no appetite, and im running more and more, as an endurance thing, so slowly my muscle is just wasting.

    Where to go from here, is my next problem - I need to try and up calories and general food intake, so I can carry on running and weight training, without turning into a skinny **** again!

    Aug 2006: 165lbs
    June 2009: 208lbs - 15% BF
    Current Goal: 210lbs - 10% BF
    Long Term Goal: 224lbs - 10% BF Max

    #13
    Daari
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/04 09:23:14 (permalink)
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    Lean-xtreme, lean-fx and endoAMP would be good products to use.  I have used the first product, as well as the 'old' version of lean-fx (same active) and found them to be similar.

    endoAMP has credible studies to back it up, and there is little doubt that it works.  it's pricey though
    #14
    PredatorNutrition
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/04 11:54:36 (permalink)
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    As Daari said - those three are used a lot. Plenty of user feedback on them. Go to Anabolicminds if you wish for a load of reading. I can ask Primordial to comment on their own specific product if you wish as well as Driven Sports re:lean xtreme?



    #15
    Celt
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/04 20:20:20 (permalink)
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    The 'need' for a cort controller in pct is well worth debate - there's much anecdotal evidence of benefit out there and certainly reason to understand the value in preventing catabolism as far as is possible. Whilst it will never happen I'd love to see some decent testing done to see A - how large an effect cortisol control could have in pct and B - how effective some of the products out there actually are at controlling cortisol.

    As for me - have used 11-test and rate that, although it is a totally unsubstantiable statement, and could be argued as placebo effect - when I have used it in pct I (feel I) have managed to continue eating as on cycle without adding as much fat as without.
    #16
    mdm
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/04 21:40:35 (permalink)
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    \Hi Driven welcome to the forum


    Them thousand of people that have said excellent product. How do they know if its actually working or worked for them? Are we talking gains kept? because there is no way of confirming what product in pct is doing what in regards to maintaining gains.

    Celt i would like to see that also - i think these products are unecessary and can not be proven to do nothing?
    #17
    James
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/05 08:55:03 (permalink)
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    Welcome to MT Driven - please abide by our posting rules for companies: http://www.muscletalk.c...vertisers/guidelines.pdf

    MDM as per my comments in the other topic: Companies or rep are encouraged to pass on their knowledge. If you take issue with any posts on this matter in the future, from now on please PM Celt or me and we will deal with it.  Do not raise it antagonisticly on the forum - this is not what MT is about; we strive for a pleasent posting atmosphere and we value this above all else.  You do, in fact, raise very valid points, but it's the manor in which you debate them which much cease.

    #18
    rokkus3
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/05 18:35:36 (permalink)
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    mdm, i rate 11-test as an anti-cort product.  i would say that it works but i have only used it as a standalone and alongside a d/s, not as part of pct.

    after my last cycle i kept all my gains but i ended up with more body fat than i had expected.  i put this down to increased cortisol.  this is despite being totally anal about my diet and spending much ££ on good food and keeping my training intensity up.

    anyways, i will be running 11-test post cycle after my next cycle and i am keeping pretty much everything the same.  i will be happy to let you know whether the 11-test helps and whether i change any other factors.

    maybe to see if anti-cortisol products really work you should try yourself?  (any free samples pred??  ;)   )
    post edited by rokkus3 - 2009/08/05 18:38:03
    #19
    mdm
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    Re:Tren PCT - Overkill? 2009/08/05 18:51:06 (permalink)
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    James


    MDM as per my comments in the other topic: Companies or rep are encouraged to pass on their knowledge. If you take issue with any posts on this matter in the future, from now on please PM Celt or me and we will deal with it.  Do not raise it antagonisticly on the forum - this is not what MT is about; we strive for a pleasent posting atmosphere and we value this above all else.  You do, in fact, raise very valid points, but it's the manor in which you debate them which much cease.


    No problems James - i will tone down my questioning - always been someone that cuts to the chase though, just like to see honest advise been offered to all members not just fresh ones.
    #20
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