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Urgent advice on car purchase please

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Big_Ad
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2007/06/13 22:10:02 (permalink)

Urgent advice on car purchase please

Ok, please bare with me:

Problem:

I purchased a 2000 reg Vauxhall Astra 1.7 DTI on the 09/05/07 from a legitimate car garage which sells a lot of "high standard" cars.

During this 5 or so weeks of "having" the car, 3 weekends the car has been down in their garage being fixed (when I purchased it with apparent "no" problems and apparently being a "sound" car). Not to mention the amount of times it's been in in the week back and fore. It's had 3 different diagnosis before having the correct diagnosis to a problem on the car, the parts that came were wrong twice. I've had to take the car down and pick it up several times, it's effected my work (since I work unsocial hours) big style and my college even more.

On early Wednesday morning (02:30am) the alternator went on the car, and so did the power steering, I took it straight down (at 3am) and left it there, went down when they opened and explained. They said I'd have it Wednesday afternoon. I was then told it will be Thursday afternoon.

After me calling them numerous times (again, they never contact me) - I went to pick the car up, I live minutes away from the garage, everything was fine.

I went to go out in the car about 20 minutes ago, and I had different lights come on, and again the power steering went.

What I want:

After barely having this car after taxing it and insuring it, I have had an absolute TIT full of it. It's a pure bad luck and I want my money back. I don't want nothing else, no other car from them, I want my money which I paid (which was in cash) back in exchange of the car.

My questions:

I am going to go down tomorrow and state I want my money back:

- Will they give me my money back as my dad doesn't seem to think they will?
- Do I have any spesific rights or are there any specific laws I can take in black and white in case they decide to brush me off and refuse my demands, as there is no way I am keeping this car. I am hight dissatisfied and pissed off - in fact, it's an understatement. I can't do nothing YET again.

Where do I stand?

Can anybody please give me some advice?

Thank you.

#1

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    dave252
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/13 22:17:34 (permalink)
    Pretty sure a car has to be 'fit for purpose' when sold or you are entitled to your money back. With the trouble you have had it would seem thats not the case. Someone else will know more though.

    Next time I would reccomend buying Japanese or German though
    post edited by dave252 - 2007/06/13 22:18:00
    #2
    logi6260
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/13 22:34:35 (permalink)
    Used to work in retail about 4 years ago but im sure this will still apply,

    when you buy anything it has to be 'fit for purpose' and or 'merchantable quality' ie it has to be in working order and have no defects unless otherwise stated, ie they would have had to say to you in writing as part of the sales agreement (which i hope you got) that the powersteering was shot.

    you have every right to take it back for a full refund if you can show that it was not of a saleable quality and not fit for purpose, by the sounds of it this shouldnt be much of a problem.

    Go onto the trading standards website or even better ring them, they will explain the ins and outs of the relevant laws and what your rights are and exactly what you can and cant expect. Do this first though because when you go to the garage you wont sound like you actually have no idea about your rights and are bluffing it, if they think this they'll do everything to fobb you off.

    Go back to the garage and politely explain to the manager that you are not satisfied with the car, tell them that you have contacted traiding standards and they have opended a conplaint for you and provided you with a case number, tell them what traiding standards have said and that you have to ring them after speaking to the garage so that they can close the case if you are satisfied or take action on your behlaf if your not, this will hopefully make the manager sure you mean business.

    I bought a car from carpeople that was advertised with remote locking, it did not have it but because they said it had they had to fit it for free or give me a refund, the chocie was MINE not theres and they had to obide by whichever i chose, i liked the car so i kept it but again i had gone after speaking to trading standards, they had previously tried to fob me off over the phone, when i went down in person armed with trading standards info they instantly agreed to do the work - result.

    Dont be fobbed off, stand up for your rights, go with all the info, be posetive and polite, dont lose your rag because youll just give them an excuse to get you out of the garage. If its a reputable dealer you should be fine, they will be more than aware of their obligations and wont risk a fine from TS and a tarnished reputation.

    When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I have not a single bit of talent left, and I could say, "I used everything you gave me". - Erma Bombeck.
    #3
    Paul Marsland
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/13 22:35:51 (permalink)
    Best advice and before you do anything check your paperwork VERY carefully for clauses etc, you have a few options here:

    1.Demand and I do mean DEMAND! your money back and state that if you do not you will contact the local press, TV and radio and make everyone aware of this company.

    2: tell them you will/have contacted trading standards as the car is clearly not fit for its intended use and purpose and therefore they are in breach of contact...

    3. Tell them in no uncertain terms that if you do not get your money back you a few of your very large and nasty friends will be paying them a visit.... ( I actually threated to smash up every one of a certain dodgy dealers cars and burn his hut down)....


    You may get your money back but I guarantee they will knock money off for wear and tear, (ridiculous I know but thats car dealers for you)..........

    #4
    Big_Ad
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/13 22:46:20 (permalink)
    Thanks for posts so far.

    Due to the lights that have been displayed, my dad who knows a fair bit about cars has indicated to me that it's an electronic fault and is a big job, the battery is also now flat as a pancake, thus the car un-driveable without bump-starting it.

    Any more replies welcome thank you.
    #5
    Ash The Man
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/13 23:09:12 (permalink)
    You've only had the car for just over a month so you are entitled to your money back.
    #6
    logi6260
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/13 23:19:13 (permalink)
    Also go at the busiest time of the day, that way all the time they are trying to fobb you off they are acutly aware that they are loosing business, if it comes to it talk loudly in front of any potential customers that are there,

    most important thing PHONE TRADING STANDARDS the worst thing you can do is go down there without the proper info from traiding standards, just for the garage owner to bull***t you because you havent got the advice, and for you to not be able to make a constructive argument as to why he/she is wrong.

    When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I have not a single bit of talent left, and I could say, "I used everything you gave me". - Erma Bombeck.
    #7
    dave252
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 00:07:36 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Big_Ad

    Thanks for posts so far.

    Due to the lights that have been displayed, my dad who knows a fair bit about cars has indicated to me that it's an electronic fault and is a big job, the battery is also now flat as a pancake, thus the car un-driveable without bump-starting it.

    Any more replies welcome thank you.


    Jesus. I wouldnt worry too much if this is a 'reputable garage'. You will get your money back by the sounds of all these probs.

    Electronic are a b**ch of a problem. I fiddled with the electrics on my Crx a year ago and its never worked properly since lol.
    #8
    Danny.
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 00:27:00 (permalink)
    Most showrooms/garages give a 30 day money back guarentee so they may not apply in your case.

    Although i work for VW and every car we sell has to be 'Multi Point Inspected' before it can be sold and the technician has to fill this out. We keep a copy of this with the deal file for audit purposes etc. Ask the garage if something like this was carried out on your car before you brought it and ask to see a copy.

    IME if you moan and ruck as much as you can then you will get somewhere belive me i see ruckers all the time and cannot believe what they can get when they kick up a fuss.

    #9
    Big_Ad
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 00:43:15 (permalink)
    Some notes I've made for when I go down tomorrow:


    Dealer Guarantee: “Dealer’s stamp”, signed – stating the vehicle is “mechanically sound and of roadworthy condition” and that the vehicle had a “pre-delivery inspection”.
    This wasn’t the case, as there was an oil-leak, which was found literally days after purchasing the car.
    This oil leak took 3 diagnoses before getting the correct fault.
    The car had been in numerous times those two weeks with the incorrect parts coming in for work. Including all weekend (Thurs-Sun).
    I had to leave the car there in the days also.
    Badly effected transport to college and work.
    I was told I’d have the car back on a specific day several times, after contacting a representative several times I was informed many times that the car was not ready and that I would have to continue waiting.
    Was told I was not eligible to a replacement car due to my age.
    Car went in again as the oil leek was not done correctly the first time around.
    Had to wait again for parts without a car.
    Coming home from work on an early Wednesday morning (02:30am) – the power steering went, along with the alternator. Almost causing me to crash at 60mph.
    The car went in for several days, the problem was “diagnosed” – and the alternator replaced with another.
    After leaving the car in the garage and being unable to travel too and from college and work once again, and having to rely on other people – whilst driving through Briton Ferry the power steering went again.
    The “Control indicator light came on (engine electronics), along with other lights randomly.
    After turning around and coming home and explaining to my father the problem, he decided to see for himself. After taking it out for a drive and pulling up the battery went. The batter is now almost flat.
    The car is under warranty of 3 months and I demand a full refund of £2,500.
    Car was sold on 09/05/07.


    Also found sufficient information on the Trading Standards website relating to used cars and consumer rights, and buying good and customer rights. So I've had a good read and will be stating the above notes tomorrow when I go down. Not happy at all tbh.
    #10
    nickpellatt
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 05:14:07 (permalink)
    Ad....speak to trading standards....

    Buying a used car is NOT the same as buying something from the regular retail sector...and so I think the rules and rights are different.

    Any inspection, even a government approved MOT, only states that the car was of roadworthy quality on the day it was tested....it doesnt state it is road worthy the day after...so legally...it doesnt mean you can have a refund.

    I would believe, that if the garage are prepared to fix any faults, and not charge you for them....you may not have a leg to stand on legally with regard to returning the vehicle...all the posts about you have had it less than 30 days will not apply IMO

    Do you have any finance on the vehicle...was this arranged through the garage...if so contact the HP company...they may be able to help, but not much...remember, the dealer is a better customer than you are...so they may favour them.

    I underastand the frustrations...but they may not realise the car had the problems it did....I worked in a garage as a salesman for 7 years bro....we often dont know...a customer PX a car...we service it, do a basic check (which covers little to be fair) MOT is, which covers less...and sell it agian with warranty..

    most cars...you dont have problems...some, are just unfortunate...things like a PAS pump...just go overnight...many things on cars do this....so it may not be they have tucked you up.

    I think legally you may have to resort to small claims action to get a refund...and then it will not be guaranteed.. you will have to fight for it IMO.

    The garage will not want to take it back IMO. They arent making money right about now...cos things that fail so soon within the initial period of warranty often have to be paid by them, not the warranty company....so they are probably losing money on the deal already....as far as they will be concerned...they may want to just fix the car, get it roadworthy...and get rid of you....

    To some degree...that is pretty much all you can ask for....that the product you buy is in condition to be used as you wish..allowing of course for its age, mileage model etc...

    Mate...you change it for another car elsewhere...who is to say you wont get the same problems? Maybe this car fixed...with all the faults repaired...is a better bet.....cos lets face it, if the PAS pump has just been replaced...it should be OK for a while now...

    I think, if the garage is to offer anything more...it will be as a gesture of goodwill...in my motor trade experience, this is NEVER a full refund! Especially if PX cars and finance are involved...prob not want you want to hear brother.....but its the truth I reckon...

    Keep me informed!

    edit - Ad, £2500? IMO, places that sell cheaper cars dont care so much about aftercare...their reputation doesnt mean as much as a main dealer...so that threat may be water off a ducks back...I know a lot of ppl in the trade.and know how they work......they aint meaning to rip you off...but in the marketplace...£2500 isnt a lot...altho it may be to you and I....the harsh truth is often that if you want new BMW main dealer service, you must pay main dealer prices...that why everyone looks at ford garages and wanders over to Bobs Cars to save £1000....to some degree you get what you pay for...

    Not to say that they are then within their rights....not by any means...but if they are prepared to put the car right, i think they have done their duty maybe.....

    its a difficult one bro...and I hope it works out for you...Im just telling you the truth...harsh truth about motor sales...hell, about any sales....you shop at Prada...they will fuss over you and care if you tell em some stitching isnt up to scratch...you shop at Top Shop they dont.



    post edited by nickpellatt - 2007/06/14 05:22:33
    #11
    Red Bull
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 07:15:02 (permalink)
    If the car was sold to you as 'sold as seen' with no warranty like cars are at small 2nd hand car dealers -no chance of money back, if they have a good rep they may as stated above fix probs as a good will gesture.....but wouldn't hold out getting much more than that.
    afterall what would be the point of selling a car with a warranty, if you had practically the same rights with out one, ie being able to bring it back for full refund!

    good luck with it tho
    #12
    Get2Big
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 09:52:50 (permalink)
    This happened to me a few years ago. I bought a car for £2300 from what I thought was a decent garage (I had bought a car from there previously and it had been a good experience).
    The first day I had the car the power steering pump cracked. They fixed that. Then I discovered a hole in the exhuast, which they kept supposidly fixing but it would keep coming back after a few days. Then i took the car through a car wash and got soaked thanks to a dodgy door seal, after a lot of arguing they fixed that. But then car began constantly pulling to the left and they wouldn't fix it. It then also developed a lumpy idle when warm. Demanded a refund but was told "no we dont do refunds" so after threatening to smash the owner up and destroy his business lol, I contacted trading standards who basically told me i would have to take it to small claims court.

    Not really worth it in the end so I part ex'd it to a honda main dealer and got a used approved civic which has been the most hassle free car ive ever owned.
    #13
    Irish Beast
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 10:04:43 (permalink)
    Can i just your handling this very well Ad!

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    #14
    Red Man
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 10:18:57 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Red Bull

    If the car was sold to you as 'sold as seen' with no warranty like cars are at small 2nd hand car dealers -no chance of money back, if they have a good rep they may as stated above fix probs as a good will gesture.....but wouldn't hold out getting much more than that.
    afterall what would be the point of selling a car with a warranty, if you had practically the same rights with out one, ie being able to bring it back for full refund!

    good luck with it tho


    Thats not true, as a registered business and trader you have to give some sort of warranty by law. This is not publicised by garages but if you have a problem and something goes wrong, trading standards will intervein and the trader will lose. I have a friend who used to sell cheap trade in style cars and stopped as he didnt make much money as he had problems with some cars that he only sold for less than a grand.

    The sold as seen thing only applies if you are joe public and are selling your own vehicle or not as a trader and not to make a profit.

    Ideally mate, if you already havent, speak to trading standard/citizens advice first.

    "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

    #15
    Big_Ad
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 12:14:09 (permalink)
    I'm not handling it well my heads gone lol.

    I've been down this morning and I expressed the unreliability of the car and how unhappy I am with the product. Also stated how it's effecting my job as I can't get too and from work, my education - and my social life (I've not seen my missus in 3 weeks lol).

    He head mechanic I spoke too who I usually speak to was very understanding on my behalf. I also expressed I wanted a full refund because of the unreliability of the car, the bad safety of the car, and the fact that it's putting me out all the time. He told me the boss man was on holidays and is due back in 2 weeks (I asked several people this separately and they all said the same, including a mechanic apprentice - so I don't think they were fobbing me off here). He said he will have a look at it this afternoon and get it fixed ASAP. I stressed that he can get it fixed as I'm the customer and the product is "broken" and unsatisfactory to what I expect, however I still want a full refund when the boss man is back.

    I'll be giving him a bell in a few hours time.
    #16
    Red Man
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 12:32:15 (permalink)
    Wouldnt know if that was bs or not. Just keep going in and make sure you see the boss in 2 weeks. I suppose if you really wanted to, you could leave it there and demand a courtesy car and threaten legal action etc. There is NO WAY the boss wont have a contact number that the mechanics can ring him on while hes away.

    "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

    #17
    beefcack
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 12:49:06 (permalink)
    its dodgy garages like this that make my job so hard!!

    right, if you put in writing to them every occasion that the car has been in for them to repair and how long it was in. Cant remember which law it is, sorry, will try to find out for you. But if you have given the garage at least three oportunities to repair the vehicle and it is still not right, by law you can hand it back and get a full refund. to start with make a note of when it been in, then go and speak to them, they should be more than willing to help. ask for the general manager, if he proves no help, ask for a director. if still no help, advise them that you will be contacting a solicitor and putting into writing that you have given them 'fair oportunity' to repair it. and will be taking action. The car they have supplied is not conducting its purpose it was designed for. put it all in writing and keep a copy for yourself, also put a time limit on it, ie, i look forward to hearing from you within 14 days

    winners are made not born
    #18
    Big_Ad
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 13:24:23 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: beefcack

    its dodgy garages like this that make my job so hard!!

    right, if you put in writing to them every occasion that the car has been in for them to repair and how long it was in. Cant remember which law it is, sorry, will try to find out for you. But if you have given the garage at least three oportunities to repair the vehicle and it is still not right, by law you can hand it back and get a full refund. to start with make a note of when it been in, then go and speak to them, they should be more than willing to help. ask for the general manager, if he proves no help, ask for a director. if still no help, advise them that you will be contacting a solicitor and putting into writing that you have given them 'fair oportunity' to repair it. and will be taking action. The car they have supplied is not conducting its purpose it was designed for. put it all in writing and keep a copy for yourself, also put a time limit on it, ie, i look forward to hearing from you within 14 days


    I can't remember how many times it's been in but it's a lot more than 3 lol.

    I don't have records on dates and how long it's been in, but legally I'm sure they have to keep a record of when this car has gone in for work, so this shouldn't be a problem if required,

    And I highly doubt the boss will want to be contacted on holiday, so he will probably turn his phone off. Not just that, I don't think my £2,500 Astra is that high of priority too them...
    #19
    Paul Marsland
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    RE: Urgent advice on car purchase please 2007/06/14 13:36:53 (permalink)
    All things considered if you don't get your money back on this particular car as understandably you have lost all confidence in it and this is unlikely to redeemed, you have no guarantee if you buy another car elsewhere you won't have similar problems, it may be worth your while to consider another car from this garage of at least the same value or maybe a slightly greater one due to your inconvenience.
    To be fair that have at least tried to fix it and not told you to do one, when you first had the problems, there is no easy solution to this but hopefully you'll get it sorted in your favour.
    #20
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