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Helpful ReplyHot!Vegan 2017

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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/17 17:53:11 (permalink)
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Boss Redd
Muscle
Boss
 
I just watched your dairy is scary youtube video on page 16. It doesn't look good. I already knew cows were milked to the point of death. The way I would do things is make the process a happy environment and the cows would produce far less milk. Make the cost go up. I was looking at this place which does raw milk
http://www.hookandson.co.uk/




Yes 'actual' happy Cows would be better then how most cows in the dairy industries are treated, but that is a well fair issue and I know most non-vegans can not get there head around why vegans do not fight for better well fair its because there are people are doing that already and things are improving. And we are not trying to change industries, we are trying to change the minds of every day people and it'll be them who change what industries do, and that is also working. In the short time we have been in 2018 there has been many more vegan friendly products and ranges being released. Tesco has a new set of ready meals which are pretty good and healthy, and the average Joe wouldn't even know they are Vegan.
 
Anyway If milk was made in a super ethical way where the mother and calf could stay together, the calf got to drink the mothers milk, the mother and calf got to live out their natural lives (which is as high as 25 years) and didnt get killed at the age of 4/5 years old, the cows got pregnant naturally...etc. Then and only then might it be OK. but after all that the price and the amount of milk you'd be able to product would make milk insanely high priced probably over £100 per liter. and who's going to pay that?




 
 
It still doesn't look like hook and son would meet your requirements then. The cows have 2 months off a year to recover and they produce far less milk. Its a lot more expensive. I've put an order through, really looking forward to trying raw milk from healthy cows
 
What about this place for raw honey. Do you have any problems with people using bees for their honey. I was thinking of buying some for my morning oats, with the raw milk
 
https://localhoneyman.co.uk/
 
 

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silent rep
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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/17 18:06:50 (permalink)
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Rasputin
James
Rasputin
I do have a personal hatred of vegans I make no secret of this

I missed this before. This is really interesting.
 
Scenario - your best friend of many year announces he is becoming a vegan. Would you hate him and would he cease to be your friend?
 
I find it fascinating why someone would hate a group of people who choose not to consume animal products so much.




 
James for me I view this as someone coming out as Vegan with coming out as Religious or radicalisation such as KKK, ISIS etc etc as such I would resolutely stop being friends with them instantly. 
 
Everything I love in life stems from my love of fishing, shooting and just animals and ecology in general. I would genuinely consider my learned knowledge of the natural world through media plus my real world experience of spending time outdoors and being round farming in various guises since I was a small child to place me in a position to talk authoritatively about animal husbandry and the realities of farming. 
 
As a result whenever I am confronted with a Vegan I have the following issues: 
 
1) They ignore the truth and focus on the most extreme aspect of any form of animal husbandry which is just not fair or accurate reflection real life. If you pick the worse of anything it will also be inaccurate and awful. This makes life very difficult for farmers and even retailers thus potentially creating an economic and social issue. 
2) Vegans seem to be all or nothing with regards to their life which is frustrating after all plenty of vegans use palm oils in things but seem to gloss over this fact. I have done and always will advocate balance again not just in diet. 
3) Vegans unlike any other diet seem to preach quite vocally across social media and I even had one bloke I never met do it to me on a train once, if I want your opinion I would ask for it but more importantly if someone is giving me their opinion they better be an expert or you just have ZERO credibility. This goes for everything in life. For instance would you sit and listen to me lecturing you on diet, health and fitness.... I think not. If a Jeohovs witness comes to your door you slam it shut and make jokes to your mates about it. This is the same thing.
4) Genetically we evolved to be omnivores yet this seems to be doubt by them. This came about as a result of us spreading our risk in case of food shortage this will have meant hunting, scavenging and foraging everything from bugs to dead things etc 
5) Veganism is nothing new yet I cant even remember the last time I saw something academic and of decent quality regarding the "pseudo" health benefits. With how big business being Vegan is now you would have thought it it was that great then someone would have poked there head above the parapet and said ok this is better because....
6) Every time a Vegan "converts" someone this is yet another person detached from the food chain, this annoys me as a point of principle. I love my hunting but I strongly believe that everyone would eat less meat and also be considerably more knowledgable about their diet and where food comes from if they didn't just hide in ignorance but picking up a vacuum packed lump of generic meat from the supermarket. The same goes for Vegans who have never stopped foot on an Arable farm. Ignorance is bliss for both sides and I am all for taking people hunting but also showing them how to cook and prep the animal too. 
7) They view animals as human equals which they are just not and their fanatism to saving animals normally either cute and cuddle or marquee species is frankly mind boggling when they nearly always overlook things like insects which are less glamours but so vitally important to humanity. 
8) Most Vegans I meet are a passing fad then basically decide actually its too tough for me and go back to living in their bubbles or they start to make hypocritical exceptions to their Vegan rule like leather shoes, moisturisers containing palm oil etc etc 
9) Invariable the people mentioned in point 8 are Yoga peace and love lefties as well. 
 
I could go on an on but I genuinely feel that strongly about it as its a direct threat to my hobbies and also potentially activities that I would like to do with my own children and their children at some point. I also believe thats its detrimental to overall bio diversity as animals simply need to be killed either by each other or by us.
 
Not to mention that as the vegan cancer grows it may or may not have an impact economically on the country as people stop shooting an fishing which generates several billion for the UK economy and thousands jobs. 
 
If someone has a moral objection to eating meat and says I cant deal with the killing of the animals and then sports leather shoes, belt and sofa I just cant fathom the logic of why you would be upset they get killed for food but then are ok with it for goods. 




I'm a Google bored old cnut trying to prove a point, thank you for posting for me 👍
 
PS born and raised on a small holding, shot, hunted, raised pigs, cows and chickens..yep took them to the the no longer existent Reading slaughter house.. exempting the chickens 😉 We grew vegetables, tomatoes. swede, potatoes, apples , blackberries, cucumbers. melons etc.
 
A diet choice is easy.. a way of life is totally different, it just depends on which why you were brought up..in the "real" world or the new age virtual one.
post edited by silent rep - 2018/01/17 18:14:03

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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/17 18:11:29 (permalink)
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Boss
 
Google says this
 
Honey is made by bees for bees, and their health is sacrificed when it is harvested by humans. Importantly, harvesting honey does not correlate with The Vegan Society's definition of veganism, which seeks to exclude not just cruelty, but exploitation.
 
Looks like its out of bounds for you

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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/21 10:13:40 (permalink)
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Boss Redd
Well my definition is food that has had nutrients removed or have, for example, I'd eat peanut butter or whole peanuts instead of peanut powder. 
 
And foods that have had too many things added like oils, salt and refined sugars.



I aske because this come up a lot and people don't know what they're talking about. Flour, for example, is processed - it's milled grain. You cook food - it's processed. Peanut butter is processed.
 
So, you're kind referring to minimally processed food?
 
What about pea protein isolate? that's heavily 'processed' and had nutrients removed. it's still vegan and still natural.

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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/21 10:22:43 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Boss Redd
Yes 'actual' happy Cows would be better then how most cows in the dairy industries are treated, but that is a well fair issue and I know most non-vegans can not get there head around why vegans do not fight for better well fair its because there are people are doing that already and things are improving. And we are not trying to change industries, we are trying to change the minds of every day people and it'll be them who change what industries do, and that is also working. In the short time we have been in 2018 there has been many more vegan friendly products and ranges being released. Tesco has a new set of ready meals which are pretty good and healthy, and the average Joe wouldn't even know they are Vegan.

Who's the 'we'? You're actually feeding into the anti-vegans here and implying that they are correct to group all vegans together.
 
You might be speaking for yourself, but you have no right to speak for other vegans. People have their own reasons for being vegan. If I were vegan, I can tell you my reasons would be vastly different to yours.

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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/21 10:24:34 (permalink)
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cu3ed
Yea...see...doing something for as little for 6 months and making all these claims whilst throwing tablets of stone with commandments in them doesn't really work for me.


Why ever not? How long would it be ok with you?
 
You have to draw the line somwhere

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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/21 10:36:59 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Rasputin
James for me I view this as someone coming out as Vegan with coming out as Religious or radicalisation such as KKK, ISIS etc etc as such I would resolutely stop being friends with them instantly.

That's really sad. Not only is being a vegan nothing like this at all, it demonstrates that to you friendship is conditional. To me, friendship is unconditional.
 
Everything I love in life stems from my love of fishing, shooting and just animals and ecology in general. I would genuinely consider my learned knowledge of the natural world through media plus my real world experience of spending time outdoors and being round farming in various guises since I was a small child to place me in a position to talk authoritatively about animal husbandry and the realities of farming.

And all this is fine and I completely get why you enjoy all this. But it's the judging of other people I have a problem with. it seems like you're exactly the same as BR is being accused of - ie you live life my way or you're WRONG
 
As a result whenever I am confronted with a Vegan I have the following issues:

1) They ignore the truth and focus on the most extreme aspect of any form of animal husbandry which is just not fair or accurate reflection real life. If you pick the worse of anything it will also be inaccurate and awful. This makes life very difficult for farmers and even retailers thus potentially creating an economic and social issue.

2) Vegans seem to be all or nothing with regards to their life which is frustrating after all plenty of vegans use palm oils in things but seem to gloss over this fact. I have done and always will advocate balance again not just in diet.

3) Vegans unlike any other diet seem to preach quite vocally across social media and I even had one bloke I never met do it to me on a train once, if I want your opinion I would ask for it but more importantly if someone is giving me their opinion they better be an expert or you just have ZERO credibility. This goes for everything in life. For instance would you sit and listen to me lecturing you on diet, health and fitness.... I think not. If a Jeohovs witness comes to your door you slam it shut and make jokes to your mates about it. This is the same thing.

4) Genetically we evolved to be omnivores yet this seems to be doubt by them. This came about as a result of us spreading our risk in case of food shortage this will have meant hunting, scavenging and foraging everything from bugs to dead things etc

5) Veganism is nothing new yet I cant even remember the last time I saw something academic and of decent quality regarding the "pseudo" health benefits. With how big business being Vegan is now you would have thought it it was that great then someone would have poked there head above the parapet and said ok this is better because....

6) Every time a Vegan "converts" someone this is yet another person detached from the food chain, this annoys me as a point of principle. I love my hunting but I strongly believe that everyone would eat less meat and also be considerably more knowledgable about their diet and where food comes from if they didn't just hide in ignorance but picking up a vacuum packed lump of generic meat from the supermarket. The same goes for Vegans who have never stopped foot on an Arable farm. Ignorance is bliss for both sides and I am all for taking people hunting but also showing them how to cook and prep the animal too.

7) They view animals as human equals which they are just not and their fanatism to saving animals normally either cute and cuddle or marquee species is frankly mind boggling when they nearly always overlook things like insects which are less glamours but so vitally important to humanity.

8) Most Vegans I meet are a passing fad then basically decide actually its too tough for me and go back to living in their bubbles or they start to make hypocritical exceptions to their Vegan rule like leather shoes, moisturisers containing palm oil etc etc

9) Invariable the people mentioned in point 8 are Yoga peace and love lefties as well.

Whilst you may or may not be right with your points; it's that fact that you 'hate' vegans just because they may (or may not) have this viewpoint. Most vegans don't. You are generalising. I also simply don;t get the hate bit. I would completely understand if the few vegans who absolutetely do tick all these boxes made you angry; but hate? That's awful. If I were capable of hate, I would save it for generally bad people, rather than people who viewed life differently to me.
 
 
I could go on an on but I genuinely feel that strongly about it as its a direct threat to my hobbies and also potentially activities that I would like to do with my own children and their children at some point. I also believe thats its detrimental to overall bio diversity as animals simply need to be killed either by each other or by us.
 

There is no threat. They have a different opinion.



I must say, I do find it incredibly interesting reading posts full of such hatred. Even after your very strongly worded post, I still don't understand why one human would have such an issue with another human.
 
Thanks

James Collier - MuscleTalk Co-Owner
@JamesCollierMT


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Re: Vegan 2017 2018/01/21 12:57:18 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Several excellent points made by James.
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