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WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PASTED.

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gymratjay
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2011/03/18 15:53:23 (permalink)

WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PASTED.

SERM's: the foundation of post cycle therapy:
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are (and damn well should be) the foundation for any proper post-cycle therapy plan. A post cycle therapy plan without them, isn't a PCT plan: it's a bunch of crap you decided to take after doing a cycle. The purpose of a SERM is to block the negative effects estrogen, while your hormone levels go back to equilibrium.
SERM's are prescription drugs, and are NOT SOLD IN SUPPLEMENT STORES. In fact, there are only 3 ways ( can think of) in which you can obtain a SERM:
1) Through a Doctor's Prescription.
2) Through the Black Market (a.k.a. illegally)
3) As a research chemicals intended for use in lab rats.
The Different SERM's:
Tamoxifen (Nolvadex):
Reputation: Most popular SERM for post cycle therapy
Pros: Cheap. Effective for gyno prevention.
Cons: Heptatoxicity. Studies have shown it to lower IGF levels (I don't feel like citing, but it's about 20% decrease...IMO no biggie).
Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 40/40/20/20
Note: Tamoxifen Citrate is less potent, and should be dosed at an extra 30%.
Clomiphene Citrate (clomid):
Reputation: Second most popular. Usually taken the first week or so to speed up Testosterone recovery with Tamoxifen being taken the whole therapy.
Pros: Better than Tamoxifen for HTPA regernation. Less heptatoxicity. Does not lower IGF.
Cons: Less effective against gyno. Can cause emotional issues. May Cause blurred vision. Hot Flashes.
Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 100-200mg/100mg/50mg/50mg
Toremifene:
Reputation: Very popular on this board
Pros: Much less toxic.
Con's: $$$$$expensive$$$$$
Popular Dosages (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg
Raloxifene:
Reputation: Very effective against gyno
Pros: Strong protection against gyno. Less toxic than Tamoxifen.
Con's: Cost Restricting. Can cause abnormal blood clotting in the eyes, lunges, and legs. May also cause hot flashes trouble breathing, and blurred vision.
Popular Dosages: (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg
Moving down the post cycle therapy Hierarchy: Cortisol Control
Excess cortisol can be damaging to your newly found muscle mass. Because of this, it is a good idea to use something to block or lower the excessive cortisol levels. Always start high, and taper your way down. Here's what we have to work with:
B-Androstenetriol (b-triol): This is one of the better cortisol suppressors. It has a terrible oral bioavailability, and should be taken transdermally. Dosages range from 25-50mg every 12 hours.
Methyl B-Androstenetriol (mb-triol): This is an enhanced version of b-triol designed for oral use. Found in the following products: Retain (by Anabolic Xtreme), Restore (by ALRI), Thyrogen-X (by ALRI)
7-Hydroxy-DHEA: Another potent cortisol suppressor with great oral bioavailability. Found in the following products: Lean Xtreme (by Designer Supplements), Reduce XT (by SNS)
7-oxo-DHEA (7-keto-DHEA): Still a decent contender, this has a terrible oral availability and an even worse half life (2 hours). This is best taken transdermally, where such effects can by bypassed.
Cissus: Unlike the above, the components of Cissus do not suppress Cortisol, but rather block cortisol receptors (better than Nandrolone or Dianabol according to some studies). Dosages vary significantly (pending extracts). SuperCissus by USPLabs is a high quality Cissus product.
Branched Chain Amino Acids: These should be a staple to begin with, but are a great anti-catabolic that mitigates the muscle-wasting effects of cortisol.
At the bottom of the post cycle therapy hierarchy there's AI's, Test Booster's, and other 'natural' anabolics
Way too many different things going on in here to go into too much detail. Just a word of caution (and this is my personal opinion), but if you're post cycle plan starts to look like a constitutional ammendment: you're over-doing it. And the worst part is if something goes wrong, you won't have a damn clue what caused it.
#1

20 Replies Related Threads

    Valley Fitness
    Sawdust
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 16:01:37 (permalink)
    I don't agree that SERMS are necessary no, no need to over complicate it though.

    To my knowledge there are a few options for PCT:
    Using one or a combination of:
    Nolva
    Clomid
    Nolva + Clomid
    Hcg and an AI
    Raloxifene

    One of those options is all you need, Raloxifene is an option if you don't get on with nolva or clomid or just using hcg and an AI which will do the job just as well. There is another one as well but the name escapes me. (toremifine!!! it's actually mentioned in the article as well)

    I personally use hcg alongside aromasin and nolva and it does the job....


    One of those options, or a combination of.... Along with a decent diet and keeping up with the heavy lifting is all you need for a succesful pct, cortisol control and all that other crap is a load of sh1te... it just overcomplicates what is a pretty simple issue.
    post edited by Doink - 2011/03/18 16:05:44
    #2
    gymratjay
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 16:11:39 (permalink)
    Thanks Doink it was a article i found on the internet mate.
    i just wanted to hear some views of here before any advice was taken you can't always beliver what you see on the net can you mate.,
    Jay
    #3
    Chrisla
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 16:18:22 (permalink)
    HCG is all you need IMO, HMG is funds allow.
     
     
    #4
    angelfan
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 19:02:02 (permalink)
    I would say you need HCG ( This is a must you recover much quicker with it ) Then Aromasin and Nolva or Clomid.
    Standard HCG with your cycle ( 500 ius ) and a big boost ( 1500 ius - 2500 ius for a couple of weeks ) just before you finish your cycle. Then PCT of Aromasin and either Nolva or Clomid which ever you prefer it doesnt matter.
    This always works for me.

    My body is like a Walking Chemical Factory.
    #5
    tribute1979
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 19:48:11 (permalink)
    angelfan

    I would say you need HCG ( This is a must you recover much quicker with it ) Then Aromasin and Nolva or Clomid.
    Standard HCG with your cycle ( 500 ius ) and a big boost ( 1500 ius - 2500 ius for a couple of weeks ) just before you finish your cycle. Then PCT of Aromasin and either Nolva or Clomid which ever you prefer it doesnt matter.
    This always works for me.

    do you think you need to use HCG throughout the whole cycle or just the last few weeks, ive never used it but looking into it for my next cycle because it will be a bit heavier one. Would you not use nolva and clomid or just one then?
    #6
    angelfan
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 20:41:11 (permalink)
    I usually start my HCG at about 4- 5 weeks in this is when you are starting to shut down hard. then run each week 500 ius up until week 10 then increase to 1500 ius then week 11 2500 ius, and finally week 12 2500 ius then wait a couple of weeks then start PCT.

    My body is like a Walking Chemical Factory.
    #7
    tribute1979
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 20:46:30 (permalink)
    what if you was doing a 15 week cycle would you start later or just run for longer, and what about the pct i was going to run both but wasnt sure on doses yet, only ran nolva before
    #8
    angelfan
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 20:58:03 (permalink)
    Ok start 500 ius at weeks 4 or 5 this is when you are shut down totally. then run 500 ius a week up until week 10 then increase to 1500 ius week 11 2500 ius and finally week 12 2500 ius wait 2 weeks then start PCT use both Clomid and Nolva or Aromasin and either Clomid or Nolva for 4 weeks . This is what I always do and recover well. You can also throw in some proviron during PCT for mood and libido. 50 MG aday will not effect your hpta.

    My body is like a Walking Chemical Factory.
    #9
    angelfan
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 21:03:52 (permalink)
    PCT would be
    Day 1 Clomid 150 mg and Nolva 60 mg
    Day 2 - 14 100 mg and Nolva 40 mg
    Day 15 - 30 Clomid 50 mg and Nolva 20 mg
    Or
    Day 1 - 14 Aromasin 25 mg And Nolva 40 MG
    Day 13 - 30 Aromasin 26 mg and Nolva 20 mg
    Or
    Day 1 - 14 Aromasin 25 mg and cLOMID 100 mg
    Day 15 - 30 Aromasin 25 mg and Clomid 50 mg
    Sorted

    My body is like a Walking Chemical Factory.
    #10
    tribute1979
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 21:08:04 (permalink)
    angelfan - thanks for the advice i will get some HCG ready and im getting Aromisin to run during cycle anyway so will get extra for PCT and run nolva alongside then happy days thanks cant wait to get started :-)
    #11
    tribute1979
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 21:11:17 (permalink)
    by the way did i read that you ran test, eq and deca together thats the cycle im planning
    week 1 -4 - 30mg dbol
    week 1-15 - 750mg test e & 600mg eq
    week 1 -12 - 300mg deca
    Aromisin 12.5mg EOD
    #12
    angelfan
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 21:13:39 (permalink)
    Cool hope your cycle goes well good luck. If you are running for 15 weeks I would start HCG at weeks 6 or 7 then run up into week 15.

    My body is like a Walking Chemical Factory.
    #13
    tribute1979
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/18 21:36:10 (permalink)
    ok will do thanks, how did you find that cycle? did you get good gains and find your appetite increase from the eq
    #14
    angelfan
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/19 17:08:50 (permalink)
    Yes I ran all three compounds however I dropped the Deca as it was effecting my libido big time. but I was running 500 mg a week. I eventually just ran 6oo mg EQ and Test 750 mg , 50 mg of Proviron a day.  excellent cycle. very lean dry gains no bloat at all. Infact I am still on this I like EQ better than Deca, dryer leaner gains and doesnt effect your libido.

    My body is like a Walking Chemical Factory.
    #15
    gymratjay
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/20 00:38:16 (permalink)
    Thanks for advice guys?
    wth a few comments above, i see some people run certain stuff throughout their cycles, i havnt touched anything apart from my gear, - is this foolish as i havnt had any sydos.
     
    i was looking to start pct towards the end but unsure what is a good pct.
     
    might try confused.com......
     
    sorry for the lack of knocklage.
     
    Jay.
    #16
    tribute1979
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/20 09:38:49 (permalink)
    angelfan

    Yes I ran all three compounds however I dropped the Deca as it was effecting my libido big time. but I was running 500 mg a week. I eventually just ran 6oo mg EQ and Test 750 mg , 50 mg of Proviron a day.  excellent cycle. very lean dry gains no bloat at all. Infact I am still on this I like EQ better than Deca, dryer leaner gains and doesnt effect your libido.


    Thanks mate hopefully running the deca at a lower dose of 300mg wont affect my libido too much, if it does can always stop it. Sounds a good cycle if you get dry lean gains even with the extra appetite, looking forward to starting now
    #17
    Sawdust
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/20 10:00:38 (permalink)
    Wouldnt say EQ gave dry lean gains personally i bloated like sh1t on test and EQ, It's probably dryer than deca from what i've seen but as you're running both, deca being the main thing here, then you should expect a bit of water retention...

    I'd class tren/mast/var and similar meds as the compounds to go for if you're after dry lean gains.

    Either way it's nothing an AI and/or a decent water intake wont cover.
    #18
    tribute1979
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/20 13:17:51 (permalink)
    i will have to get used to a bit of extra water then, would have liked to stay leaner but the main thing this year is adding some good quality size hopefully the AI might keep it down a bit
    #19
    gymratjay
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    Re:WHO AGREES WITH THIS---- GOOD OR BAD ADVICE YOU DECIDE..... REST OF ARTICLE CAN BE PAST 2011/03/20 22:24:32 (permalink)
    BUMP!!!!
    #20
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