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Helpful ReplyWeightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment?

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Beanyman
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2014/10/31 20:28:34 (permalink)

Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment?

I pretty much squat and DL in socks these days despite the gyms health & safety policy, though recently considered investing in a decent pair of lifting shoes.

What do you wear on your trotters and are lifting shoes worth the investment?

Seems a decent pair could set me back £150.

Also looking at DL socks. Keep catching an old war wound on my shin and whilst blood running down my leg looks feckin hardcore, not sure leaving a layer or two of skin on the bar is hygienic.
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Celt
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/10/31 20:46:09 (permalink)
I run in vivobarefoot evo trainers and found they're superb for squats and deadlifts. 3mm flat across the entire sole so it's as good as barefoot without resorting to vibram five fingers. They have a few other shoes in their range at cheaper prices than the evo too, but whatever you choose you'll pay less than half the £150 you're considering.

I've heard others swear by converse Chuck Taylor's, but I can't say they'd be for me in the gym.
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jack5r
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/10/31 20:56:59 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby alekan 2014/10/31 21:39:22
Depends if you want a heal for squatting or not. What's your ankle flexibility like? Are you a high are low bar squatter? Do you front squat?

150 are for the top Olympic weightlifting shoes.

These are good with a smaller heal than the Oly shoes. £90.

http://www.pullum-sports....oe-black/prod_949.html

Body Weight - 83kg 
Bench - 145kg
Squat - 190kg
Clean & Jerk - 129kg
Snatch - 98kg  
 
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alekan
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/10/31 21:39:36 (permalink)
jack5r


These are good with a smaller heal than the Oly shoes. £90.

http://www.pullum-sports....oe-black/prod_949.html



 
This
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Uriel
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/10/31 21:40:21 (permalink)
I remember some company making decent olympic shoes for around 70£ or so. Can't remember the name but shouldn't be too hard to find.
 
I've been planning on getting some myself. Don't like squatting PL style and I just don't have the flexibility to do it olympic style without a heel. I don't believe a proper olympic squat with flat feel is something just anyone can do as long as they train their flexibility, I've been trying for quite a while now and just can't keep my back upright no matter what when I get deep, if it was just a matter of training your flexibility I'd have it dialed by now. On the other hand I've seen some people doing flat footed olympic squats effortlessly, it's one of those things that boils down to your very bone structure and you either have it or you don't.
 
EDIT: Found them, 53£ + shipping and lots of good reviews:
https://www.vsathletics.c...eightlifting-Shoe.html
post edited by Uriel - 2014/10/31 21:47:28
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jack5r
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/10/31 21:53:11 (permalink)
Depends if you want to simply high bar squat bare foot, or do what looks like an Oly squat bare foot. ^^^

You should still be able to high bar squat to depth bare foot. It might not look like your classic Oly squat due to your proportions though like you've said.

Body Weight - 83kg 
Bench - 145kg
Squat - 190kg
Clean & Jerk - 129kg
Snatch - 98kg  
 
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MuscleAndGravy
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/10/31 22:48:10 (permalink)
Chucks are pretty good.
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Uriel
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/10/31 22:48:55 (permalink)
jack5r
Depends if you want to simply high bar squat bare foot, or do what looks like an Oly squat bare foot. ^^^

You should still be able to high bar squat to depth bare foot. It might not look like your classic Oly squat due to your proportions though like you've said.

It looks like a powerlifting squat with the knees going over the toes, really. Still a lot of forward lean going on.
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daKensta
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/01 04:13:12 (permalink)
reaal bargain here, if you have massive feet. :D
http://www.pullum-sports....g-shoes-/prod_124.html
 
 

SQ:170 BP:172.5 DL:265 OHP:120(strict)



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alekan
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/01 06:17:42 (permalink)
http://wlshoes.com/reviews/
and this 
http://www.olympicweightsetreview.com/asics-weightlifting-shoes-review/
 
for an extra model
post edited by alekan - 2014/11/01 06:21:56
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lancs_lad
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/01 07:58:41 (permalink)
Uriel
jack5r
Depends if you want to simply high bar squat bare foot, or do what looks like an Oly squat bare foot. ^^^

You should still be able to high bar squat to depth bare foot. It might not look like your classic Oly squat due to your proportions though like you've said.

It looks like a powerlifting squat with the knees going over the toes, really. Still a lot of forward lean going on.


If it's about moving weight it doesn't matter which one you do surely? Why you so keen to oly squat?
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Uriel
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/02 19:58:47 (permalink)
lancs_lad
Uriel
jack5r
Depends if you want to simply high bar squat bare foot, or do what looks like an Oly squat bare foot. ^^^

You should still be able to high bar squat to depth bare foot. It might not look like your classic Oly squat due to your proportions though like you've said.

It looks like a powerlifting squat with the knees going over the toes, really. Still a lot of forward lean going on.


If it's about moving weight it doesn't matter which one you do surely? Why you so keen to oly squat?

To me it's not just about moving weight, I don't compete. I do care about strength, but I also care about getting good quads from my squats instead of all glutes, plus as I said there's the issue with lower back overuse and injury. I can front squat heavy every day, yet if I do a really heavy set of back squats (with flat feet) my back is toast for the rest of the week.
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Beanyman
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/03 11:35:17 (permalink)
Thanks guys.
 
I only back squat at the moment, never attempted front squats as I have no ACL, torn MCL and miniscus in my left knee from years of football and I'm really conscious of putting too much pressure on my knee.  It doesn't stop me squatting, DL'ing and leg pressing half decent weight (IMO) if anything, it's helped with stability of the joint over the years. 
 
I've found recently that the more I put on the bar, the more pain I feel in my knees. Not DOMS, but aches for days.  I don't think I'm getting as deep and there could be forward lean going on.  From what I've read on t'web, other than lowering the weight and nailing form, lifting shoes can help get the required depth and therefore reduce forward lean.
 
My ankle flexibility is pretty good and I've asked a mate who's a PT to check my form over the next couple of weeks lifting various weight to see what's going on before committing to parting with cash for decent lifting shoes.  I'm a quad dominant squatter and rarely feel it in my glutes, I also noticed last year I had a mild butt wink, something I've worked on eliminating.
 
I also tend to overthink things too much.
 
 
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sillynarbie
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/03 12:04:57 (permalink)
I recently bought the same pair jack posted because I realise that I'm not flexible enough to stop butt winking at the bottom of a squat if I'm bare footed. Actually, the raised heel in the shoes still isn't enough for back squats but is just about perfect for front squats.
 
I bought them just for injury prevention. I seem to keep picking up niggles these days (shoulders, quads, and back) so anything I can do to reduce the risk of injury is worth it IMO.
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Uriel
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/03 12:11:54 (permalink)
If you're a quad-dominant squatter olympic shoes will only make that worse.
 
In the case of chronic injuries we have to look at every case individually so take this with a grain of salt, but for people with healthy knees front squats have actually been shown to be less stressful on the knees than back squats. Compressive forces depend on the weight loaded and shear forces depend largely on the knee angle achieved under load. Because of the greater knee angles for a given weight front squats may cause higher shear forces, but because the mechanics of the lift make it much more challenging you'll never front squat as much as you back squat for a comparable level of experience with both. In reality for a given intensity (%1RM at that lift) front squats cause shear forces similar to back squats, but lower compressive forces because you're using at lot less weight (and getting just as good a quad workout out of it). Hamstrings and lower back will be recruited less, but you can just follow with deadlifts for that.
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rokkus3
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/03 13:38:33 (permalink)
OP - Lol @ the scuffed shin on the bar... that does look badass when you're lifting but am sure some folk won't appreciate it!  Happens to me every now and again... maybe invest in a pair of cheap rugby socks or jogging bottoms?
 
Have done squats @ DL in just socks for years, never had a problem with form or foot issues.  Wouldn't feel right lifting in shoes!
 
 

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - Vince Lombardi

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Beanyman
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/03 17:33:31 (permalink)
Uriel
If you're a quad-dominant squatter olympic shoes will only make that worse.
 
In the case of chronic injuries we have to look at every case individually so take this with a grain of salt, but for people with healthy knees front squats have actually been shown to be less stressful on the knees than back squats. Compressive forces depend on the weight loaded and shear forces depend largely on the knee angle achieved under load. Because of the greater knee angles for a given weight front squats may cause higher shear forces, but because the mechanics of the lift make it much more challenging you'll never front squat as much as you back squat for a comparable level of experience with both. In reality for a given intensity (%1RM at that lift) front squats cause shear forces similar to back squats, but lower compressive forces because you're using at lot less weight (and getting just as good a quad workout out of it). Hamstrings and lower back will be recruited less, but you can just follow with deadlifts for that.




Bugger, thought shoes would help a little.
 
Interesting comment about front squats also (thanks btw).  Not confident enough to have a go myself but will under supervision from my PT mate. 
 
I watched Dan John's squat video on YouTube over the weekend and implemented a few things I picked up today which seemed to help.
 
I'm a great believer in Dave Brailsford's "aggregation of marginal gains theory"  Brailsford believes that by breaking down and identifying every tiny aspect of an athlete's performance and then making just a 1% improvement in each area the athlete's overall performance can be significantly enhanced.
 
Currently working through each exercise (Squat, DL, Bench, MP) and seeing what and where I can improve and this week it's the squat.
 
Told you I tend to over think things.
 
 
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Beanyman
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/03 17:36:16 (permalink)
rokkus3
OP - Lol @ the scuffed shin on the bar... that does look badass when you're lifting but am sure some folk won't appreciate it!  Happens to me every now and again... maybe invest in a pair of cheap rugby socks or jogging bottoms?
 
Have done squats @ DL in just socks for years, never had a problem with form or foot issues.  Wouldn't feel right lifting in shoes!
 

 
Ha!  I sweat enough without wearing jogging bottoms, cheap rugby socks though, didn't think of that Doh!
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jack5r
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/03 19:35:10 (permalink)
Just because you feel it more in your quads doesn't mean you're quad dominent. Could you upload a vid?

When my knees are playing up I swap front squats for back squats. If they're really a problem I'll go to low back bar squats bare foot or deadlift.

Personally I would avoid deep front squats with no ACL. You also want to be doing more single leg work for stability. Single leg deadlift/squats. Balancing on uneven surface.

Where is your knee pain?

Do lots quad sofa stretches and rolling. The end of the Olympic bar is best for this.

Body Weight - 83kg 
Bench - 145kg
Squat - 190kg
Clean & Jerk - 129kg
Snatch - 98kg  
 
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sillynarbie
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Re: Weightlifting Shoes. Worth the investment? 2014/11/04 00:01:46 (permalink)
Beanyman
Uriel
If you're a quad-dominant squatter olympic shoes will only make that worse.
 
In the case of chronic injuries we have to look at every case individually so take this with a grain of salt, but for people with healthy knees front squats have actually been shown to be less stressful on the knees than back squats. Compressive forces depend on the weight loaded and shear forces depend largely on the knee angle achieved under load. Because of the greater knee angles for a given weight front squats may cause higher shear forces, but because the mechanics of the lift make it much more challenging you'll never front squat as much as you back squat for a comparable level of experience with both. In reality for a given intensity (%1RM at that lift) front squats cause shear forces similar to back squats, but lower compressive forces because you're using at lot less weight (and getting just as good a quad workout out of it). Hamstrings and lower back will be recruited less, but you can just follow with deadlifts for that.




Bugger, thought shoes would help a little.
 
Interesting comment about front squats also (thanks btw).  Not confident enough to have a go myself but will under supervision from my PT mate. 
 
I watched Dan John's squat video on YouTube over the weekend and implemented a few things I picked up today which seemed to help.
 
I'm a great believer in Dave Brailsford's "aggregation of marginal gains theory"  Brailsford believes that by breaking down and identifying every tiny aspect of an athlete's performance and then making just a 1% improvement in each area the athlete's overall performance can be significantly enhanced.
 
Currently working through each exercise (Squat, DL, Bench, MP) and seeing what and where I can improve and this week it's the squat.
 
Told you I tend to over think things.
 
 




If you improve 100 things by 1% then you've made a 1% improvement overall. Aggregation of marginal gains is utterly pointless for anyone other than elite athletes where the 1% makes a difference.
 
Concentrate on getting the basics right and you're 99% of the way there. I would suggest that getting good form on each exercise isn't a marginal gain. Certainly at least when it comes to injury prevention down the line - and avoiding injuries is one of the easiest ways to get progress for free.
 
That's also why Brailsford's athletes wash their hands many times a day for 20 seconds a time. Lowers the chances of getting things like the common cold considerably, which means less time out of training. 
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