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When to fit in conditioning?

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el_Supremo
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2007/06/16 19:29:08 (permalink)
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When to fit in conditioning?

If this is my average training regime and I want to addd in extra conditioning drills on some days as extra sessions when would you suggest doing so?

Monday- Weights (am)
Tuesday- Thai boxing (pm)
Wednesday- Rest
Thursday- Weights (am)
Friday- Thai boxing (pm)
Saturday- Hill sprints
Sunday- Thai boxing (pm)

I want to add in more conditioning
• Intervals once per week
• A brief GPP workout
• 1-2 mile as fast as possible
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    Integra
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/16 19:50:05 (permalink)
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    3x Thai boxing sessions p/w and the Saturday hill sprints should be adequate for conditioning purposes.

    If you really wanted to, you could fit an interval session in on Tues/Fri AM or Weds, being careful to fuel correctly of course
    #2
    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/16 20:36:25 (permalink)
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    its very hard too say where conditioning can be fitted in.
    first off, what sort of weight routine are you implementing, are you a competitive thai boxer?
    i dont think you need anymore conditioning in there, Solely depending on, what your thai sessions are
    like currently and how your coaches train you.
    To put it simply, you cant be given a specific answer due too the post, not enough information.
    On a guess, i would say you have enough conditioning in your routine,
    doing much sparring?
    how intense is your thai training?
    interval training is one of the best workouts for conditioning, when it comes too a combat athlete.
    i would replace hillsprints for the intervals.
    #3
    el_Supremo
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/16 21:57:45 (permalink)
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    I am 13 weeks away from my next fight.

    Thai training is pretty intense but I dont feel its sufficent for my conditioning as half the time is spent holding pads for a partner.

    I want to be as fit as I am capable off for my next fight as its the frst time I will have fought a 5 round fight.

    In my last fights I couldn have went to glasgow and trained in the HQ gym during the day, meaning I could do my running at night, but there has been a fire in the gym and I can now only train at night, which means I cant do condioning work a few hours later.

    That routine I am following at the minute is only 1 hour of training per day, as Thai only last about 2 hour, as do my weights sessions.

    My weights sessions consist of 1 heavy strength day, and 1 easier speed strength day.
    #4
    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/17 02:18:55 (permalink)
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    sounds good, ok i can work with this.
    with your thai sessions. why not make your workouts more
    brief but maintain intensity, the best objective would be too keep
    the volume pretty high in these sessions and of course keep
    the intensity high, but if you cant do it, itd be better too keep
    the sessions, at moderate volume and keep intensity high.
    maybe skill work for 30 minutes followed by punchout drills
    and some heavy bag work for 3-4 rounds, keep the pace
    solid throughout.

    explain what your strength and what your speed strength day
    looks like.
    how long have you been training, whats your running times like/distance?
    how frequently do you normally train, give us a general idea
    of your work capacity and we can go from there, if you want
    any help with this via pm id have no problem giving you a hand!
    these specifics are very important, especially too understand where your currently at.
    13 weeks away from the fight, keep working hard for the next 12 weeks, Last week will
    be light, intensity pretty high but a big drop in volume too allow for recovery, can get into more detail on this soon, i need some sleep :)
    post edited by Fullpelt - 2007/06/17 02:21:31
    #5
    el_Supremo
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/17 11:08:50 (permalink)
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    When I train in Muay Thais its public classes which the instructor runs, so I cant really have any input into what we do or dont do.
    Sometimes its really hard, other times it can be light and technical. Its usually a mix of pad work, shadow boxing, sparring, and excercises such as skipping, press ups, burpees, squats etc...

    Strength day this week was

    1 dumbell clean and press 4x3
    2 Dumbell push press 4x4

    A1- Dumbell front squat 4x5
    A2- Dumbell romanian deadlift 4x8

    B1- Bench press 4x5
    B2- Barbell rows 4x5

    Speed day was

    Dumbell snatch 5x3 @65% 1rm
    Dumbell split jerk 5x3 @65% 1rm

    A1- Incline dumbell press 4x5
    A2- Plyometric push up 4x8

    B1- Barbell lunges 4x6 per leg
    B2- Lunge jumps 4x10

    I usually train like what I have put up in the original post, but I want to add in extra conditioning for this fight as its a 5 rounder and I have been tired in my last fights anyway. I ve only been doing Muay Thai for just over a year but have had a few fights already last year.

    I have been doing 1.5 and 2 mile runs on the track recently to make sure my aerobic base is ok, done 1.5 miles in 10.29minutes, have done 2 miles in 14 mins flat, could beat they times though. I am abouit 91kgs just now but I will probably be fighting about 85-87kgs.

    My Interval training programme is as follows
    week 1- 4x800m + 4x50m
    week2- 6x400m + 5x50m
    week3- 8x200m + 5x50m
    week4- 10x100m + 5x50m
    week5 20x50m
    Then I repeat the cycle.

    With my hill sprints I usually sprint up a 100 meter steep hill as fast as I can, and do that about 8-12 times, start off in week 1 at 8 and add an extra hill in each week till I get to 12.

    Cheers for the advice.
    #6
    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/17 13:10:37 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: el_Supremo

    When I train in Muay Thais its public classes which the instructor runs, so I cant really have any input into what we do or dont do.
    Sometimes its really hard, other times it can be light and technical. Its usually a mix of pad work, shadow boxing, sparring, and excercises such as skipping, press ups, burpees, squats etc...

    Strength day this week was

    1 dumbell clean and press 4x3
    2 Dumbell push press 4x4

    A1- Dumbell front squat 4x5
    A2- Dumbell romanian deadlift 4x8

    B1- Bench press 4x5
    B2- Barbell rows 4x5

    Speed day was

    Dumbell snatch 5x3 @65% 1rm
    Dumbell split jerk 5x3 @65% 1rm

    A1- Incline dumbell press 4x5
    A2- Plyometric push up 4x8

    B1- Barbell lunges 4x6 per leg
    B2- Lunge jumps 4x10

    I usually train like what I have put up in the original post, but I want to add in extra conditioning for this fight as its a 5 rounder and I have been tired in my last fights anyway. I ve only been doing Muay Thai for just over a year but have had a few fights already last year.

    I have been doing 1.5 and 2 mile runs on the track recently to make sure my aerobic base is ok, done 1.5 miles in 10.29minutes, have done 2 miles in 14 mins flat, could beat they times though. I am abouit 91kgs just now but I will probably be fighting about 85-87kgs.

    My Interval training programme is as follows
    week 1- 4x800m + 4x50m
    week2- 6x400m + 5x50m
    week3- 8x200m + 5x50m
    week4- 10x100m + 5x50m
    week5 20x50m
    Then I repeat the cycle.

    With my hill sprints I usually sprint up a 100 meter steep hill as fast as I can, and do that about 8-12 times, start off in week 1 at 8 and add an extra hill in each week till I get to 12.

    Cheers for the advice.



    strength day 1 = looks fine.
    speed strength day. (doing snatches and split jerks? why not push press? them olympic
    movements require a sound base of technique, unless you have
    had plenty of practice with them. The push press is an olympic
    movement but its easier too learn than the split jerk etc.)

    personally, i would leave this day out for the time being. you will be doing plenty of
    explosive work in the gym.

    it looks like your aerobic capacity needs some improvement.
    1 and a half miles in 10 or so minutes needs work, is this done on a treadmill or on
    a normal road run?. look towards getting this time down too a solid 9 minutes.

    Regards too getting gassed in your fights.
    A lot of this will be nerves, + experience.
    the more experienced you get the more relaxed you will be in the ring, but the conditioning definetly needs improvement from what you have written.

    personally, i feel a sound option would be too drop the speed strength day and
    replace it for interval training or a sharp 3-4 mile run.
    You will be training for speed in your thai boxing sessions, In these sessions you will be aiming too be explosive on the bags, and in sparring. Your conditioning requires improvement and adding more conditioning onto the routine i dont think would be
    the best of options just yet.
    i would go with conditioning, instead of the speed strength day, and as your conditioning improves, consider maintaining your fitness while then moving in more explosive work if you feel it is needed.
    if your skill is improving in the gym, and your working hard, you will get faster.

    the fact is. you can have all the speed strength you want, but if your conditioning is not there, its only a matter of time before your opponent sees this, and manipulates it.
    Conditioning and skill are the main factors in a combat athletes regime!.
    Like the saying goes in a fighters world, Conditioning is king.

    91kgs, and how tall?






    post edited by Fullpelt - 2007/06/17 14:48:23
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    KICKFIGHTER
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 12:45:36 (permalink)
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    Hey Fullpelt, I've read a few of your replies and I must say you seem to know your onions mate. Are you a fighter yourself or a coach/P.T? Some good and interesting ideas on training there, keep em coming mate.

    If you only do what you've always done then you'll only get what you've always got!
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    el_Supremo
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 13:00:00 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Fullpelt

    ORIGINAL: el_Supremo

    When I train in Muay Thais its public classes which the instructor runs, so I cant really have any input into what we do or dont do.
    Sometimes its really hard, other times it can be light and technical. Its usually a mix of pad work, shadow boxing, sparring, and excercises such as skipping, press ups, burpees, squats etc...

    Strength day this week was

    1 dumbell clean and press 4x3
    2 Dumbell push press 4x4

    A1- Dumbell front squat 4x5
    A2- Dumbell romanian deadlift 4x8

    B1- Bench press 4x5
    B2- Barbell rows 4x5

    Speed day was

    Dumbell snatch 5x3 @65% 1rm
    Dumbell split jerk 5x3 @65% 1rm

    A1- Incline dumbell press 4x5
    A2- Plyometric push up 4x8

    B1- Barbell lunges 4x6 per leg
    B2- Lunge jumps 4x10

    I usually train like what I have put up in the original post, but I want to add in extra conditioning for this fight as its a 5 rounder and I have been tired in my last fights anyway. I ve only been doing Muay Thai for just over a year but have had a few fights already last year.

    I have been doing 1.5 and 2 mile runs on the track recently to make sure my aerobic base is ok, done 1.5 miles in 10.29minutes, have done 2 miles in 14 mins flat, could beat they times though. I am abouit 91kgs just now but I will probably be fighting about 85-87kgs.

    My Interval training programme is as follows
    week 1- 4x800m + 4x50m
    week2- 6x400m + 5x50m
    week3- 8x200m + 5x50m
    week4- 10x100m + 5x50m
    week5 20x50m
    Then I repeat the cycle.

    With my hill sprints I usually sprint up a 100 meter steep hill as fast as I can, and do that about 8-12 times, start off in week 1 at 8 and add an extra hill in each week till I get to 12.

    Cheers for the advice.



    strength day 1 = looks fine.
    speed strength day. (doing snatches and split jerks? why not push press? them olympic
    movements require a sound base of technique, unless you have
    had plenty of practice with them. The push press is an olympic
    movement but its easier too learn than the split jerk etc.)

    personally, i would leave this day out for the time being. you will be doing plenty of
    explosive work in the gym.

    it looks like your aerobic capacity needs some improvement.
    1 and a half miles in 10 or so minutes needs work, is this done on a treadmill or on
    a normal road run?. look towards getting this time down too a solid 9 minutes.

    Regards too getting gassed in your fights.
    A lot of this will be nerves, + experience.
    the more experienced you get the more relaxed you will be in the ring, but the conditioning definetly needs improvement from what you have written.

    personally, i feel a sound option would be too drop the speed strength day and
    replace it for interval training or a sharp 3-4 mile run.
    You will be training for speed in your thai boxing sessions, In these sessions you will be aiming too be explosive on the bags, and in sparring. Your conditioning requires improvement and adding more conditioning onto the routine i dont think would be
    the best of options just yet.
    i would go with conditioning, instead of the speed strength day, and as your conditioning improves, consider maintaining your fitness while then moving in more explosive work if you feel it is needed.
    if your skill is improving in the gym, and your working hard, you will get faster.

    the fact is. you can have all the speed strength you want, but if your conditioning is not there, its only a matter of time before your opponent sees this, and manipulates it.
    Conditioning and skill are the main factors in a combat athletes regime!.
    Like the saying goes in a fighters world, Conditioning is king.

    91kgs, and how tall?










    I was doing push press, I just changed it round in the last few weeks as I had been doing the same routine for about 4 months.
    I use dumbells so that they are easier to perform, not as technical if you are using dumbells quite easy.
    We dont have bags in the gym iI train in, only in the HQ, thoughh I have access to a heavy bag in my gym that I do my weights in.

    I am 91kgs just nowand I am 6ft 5 in tall, making weights is no problem, and my diet had been paid for and sorted out my James, I have just been a bit more liberal with my carbs since my last fight.
    #9
    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 13:40:37 (permalink)
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    thankyou kick, i used too box, and il be returning too the ring soon. at the moment i study as much as possible, from watching videos, too reading routines, too reading many training loggs, i have also learnt a lot by putting the methods i read, into practice. i consider my self a student of the ring, i would like too one day get into coaching!.
    a big thanks for the kind words mate!
    post edited by Fullpelt - 2007/06/18 13:41:29
    #10
    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 14:02:47 (permalink)
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    being 6,5 and 91kg, im guessing your in good condition (or pretty good condition)
    i will be back online tonight mate too give you a hefty little reply, as im working at this moment.
    post edited by Fullpelt - 2007/06/18 14:32:34
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    el_Supremo
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 14:18:14 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Fullpelt

    being 6,5 and 91kg, im guessing your in good condition.
    i will be back online tonight mate too give you a hefty little reply, as im working at this moment.



    I dont know how good condition I am in. To look at I am slim, 6 pack is just about visble and now more probably got about 12 per cent body fat at the minute.

    I am alright, not super fit, but I would like to be as fit as possible for this next fight as its my first 5 rounder. I think if I am as fit as possible I will win, I have alrteady fought the guy in a 3 rounder, we were both as tired as each other at the end.

    I thought I was robbed but having watched the DVD about 10 times it was 50/50, he was at home so he got the decision.

    He has been training an awful lot longer than me, and is in his mid 30's, I am 26.

    I had only ben training 6 months when we last fought, by the time of the fight I will have been training about 18 months now, so I will have improved a lot, I dont think he will have improved much due t his age and the legth of time he has been training anyway.

    I believe if my conditioning is spot on I will win the fight and hopefully stop him.

    #12
    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 14:34:50 (permalink)
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    no problem.
    il gladly help you out all i can.
    if your looking too loose 3-5 kgs or so, diet and hard work will be key. As you up your conditioning you should have no problem making weight, you have enough time. Remember, you have plenty of time so make every minute of it count, you dont want to be 4 weeks away from competition trying too get your mind set correct, it needs to be right from the start, which it seems!
    il shoot u a reply later tonight if thats fine?
    post edited by Fullpelt - 2007/06/18 14:36:21
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    el_Supremo
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 15:57:08 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Fullpelt

    no problem.
    il gladly help you out all i can.
    if your looking too loose 3-5 kgs or so, diet and hard work will be key. As you up your conditioning you should have no problem making weight, you have enough time. Remember, you have plenty of time so make every minute of it count, you dont want to be 4 weeks away from competition trying too get your mind set correct, it needs to be right from the start, which it seems!
    il shoot u a reply later tonight if thats fine?


    Sound mate, appreciate the help.

    I wont be messing about. Come Monday thats 12 weeks so the diet will be spot on except 1 meal per week on a Saturday. I wont be drinking apart from at T in the Park in July and I will be in bed at 11pm every night, want to be 100 per cent fit and focussed for this fight.
    #14
    Cisco_Kid
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 16:17:46 (permalink)
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    keep us updated with how the training and diet goes.
    I'm very interested as this is similar to what i want to be doing with my thai training..

    Pain is merely a part of life, to be embraced and understood, not crushed.

    Bench - 105kg
    Squat - 100kg
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    KICKFIGHTER
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 17:53:16 (permalink)
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    Thats cool mate, Good to hear you plan on fighting again one day. I do a bit of coaching with guys at my gym and they help me with pads and sparring. I think when any coach sez they know it all they've closed their mind to learning. Keep up the good work FP and keep us posted on the fighting mate and good luck bro. Oh and what weight do you fight at?

    If you only do what you've always done then you'll only get what you've always got!
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    el_Supremo
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 18:41:41 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Cisco_Kid

    keep us updated with how the training and diet goes.
    I'm very interested as this is similar to what i want to be doing with my thai training..



    Here is my sample diet mate

    Wake 30g whey protein powder in water

    Breakfast 8.30am 12 egg whites (cooked)
    40g oats in water 200ml fresh fruit juice

    11.15am 180g chicken/turkey or 190g tuna (tinned in water, drained)
    Mixed veg
    5 olives
    Slice melon or strawberries
    Water

    Lunch 2.00pm 180g chicken/turkey breast or 150g (smoked) mackerel/salmon
    20g brown basmati rice
    Loads of mixed veg/salad + level tbsp sunflower seeds
    200g low fat natural yoghurt

    5.00pm 180g chicken/turkey or 150g lean red meat
    50g brown basmati rice or 50g quinoa or 50g couscous or 40g wholewheat pasta or 1-2 slices linseed or granary bread
    Loads of veg

    Immediately post weights/cardio/Thai 40g whey protein powder in water
    On cardio/Thai days 20g maltodextrin in water

    Evening Meal (45mins later) 180g chicken/turkey breast or 200g white fish
    50g brown basmati rice or 50g quinoa or 50g couscous or 40g wholewheat pasta or 1-2 slices linseed or granary bread Loads of veg

    Evening snack Handful mixed nuts
    Item fruit

    Bedtime 200g cottage cheese or 200g low fat natural yoghurt
    #17
    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 22:57:41 (permalink)
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    im always learning kick, always reading, always watching, im finding something new every time, hopefully by the time im 25 or 30 il be able too get into the coaching scene seriously.
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    Fullpelt
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 23:22:35 (permalink)
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    Adjusting

    this to me el, sounds a good idea too get you started.

    Monday - Weights ( Maximum strength).

    Tuesday - Thai boxing (PM)

    Wednsday - Conditioning (Interval training. effort is everything
    in this sessions, absolutely everything.
    week 1 - 5x600 metres. 1 min recovery
    week 2 - 6x600metres 1 min recovery
    week 3 - 5x800 metres (take whatever time too recovery)
    (gradually intend too up the volume on a weekly basis.
    Change parameters too avoid any mental staleness as i like too call it.

    Thursday - Active recovery (PM) (Shadow boxing + relative skill work)
    20 - 30 minutes working on your
    footwork, + weak techniques
    (maybe left hooks, or low kicks etc,
    keep this light, but functional)

    Friday - thai boxing
    Saturday (Hill sprints). Remember hill sprints, high intensity training, all you need
    too know about this session is, work hard, and harder.
    i dont believe there need to be special parameters set out
    for this session, but the intention is short sharp bursts,
    50m uphill is fine, get a nice steep hill and give it everything
    you got. Remember, if your running up hill for 100 - 150m,
    your going too fatique very quickly, or you wont be running
    at maximum pace from the start simply because you will be
    gassed too soon. I used too do 30m uphill maximum effort,
    balls too the wall about 10 - 14 times, then jog back for
    recovery. This would be perfect, and i saw improvements
    all the time. See if this works for you, it may not but ive
    also used this with other people and had relative success.
    if one week you can only succesfully complete 6 reps,
    the week after keep the recovery pace downhill the same
    and go all out for 7.

    Sunday (Thai boxing). I know your coaches man these sessions, but here i
    would go with nice warmup consisting of technique work,
    as this is primarily what your trying too improve during
    these sessions, and do a few rounds on the pads
    and aim too be explosive, and finish with a nice
    cool down. Try too cut the volume on this session slightly
    if you can too aid with recovery.

    remember with something like this, tailor it too your needs. You may find
    on the sunday you still have plenty of energy too go forward, possibly because
    your work capacity can handle it, In that case go for it. But if you find by saturday
    or so your struggling, drop the volume on the hill sprints the next day
    too aid with recovery. Its all about working with your body, but its also about knowing
    the difference between fatique, and being mentally false with your self.
    Its easy too say im tired, and fatiqued, when truely you may be lacking
    motivation too keep working.

    thats a basic little template too work off, giev it a go and see if it works for you.
    It just might.
    always remembre too be on a heavy deload that last week, its extremely important,
    you want your strength with you when you fight in the ring, you dont want too
    leave it in the weight room, or on the bags!
    There is some volume in this routine, but given you have been training, i feel
    you could cope with it, any problems, freely give me a page and il
    give any advice i can. The only problem with the internet is, its hard
    too work with you, when i havent seen you perform before etc!
    btw, awesome thing your working hard on your diet, keep at it!
    post edited by Fullpelt - 2007/06/18 23:52:35
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    Tenthghost
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    RE: When to fit in conditioning? 2007/06/18 23:54:08 (permalink)
    0
    el supremo where do u get all of your info for weight training geared towards thai boxing

    Skill over Will
    #20
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