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Which capsules?

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djwoody
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2007/06/16 19:51:34 (permalink)
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Which capsules?

Which capsules would you recommend for size and strength?

I don't want to go down the Steriod route, would prefer legal supplements.

There are so many on the market and I don't know where to start...

Chris

8 Replies Related Threads

    Zulu3
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/16 20:07:51 (permalink)
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    Most are a waste of time and money (believe me, Ive tried a lot). I use creatine caps rather than powder as they are less messy and easy to carry to work. Other than that, some people use BCAA caps as do I when I know my diet is going to suffer due to work. But they arent miracle pills and really you should be getting everything you need from your food. There are so many "magic pills" on the market and dispite their claims, 99% are poo.
    Redemption
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/16 20:39:02 (permalink)
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    No pills other than Steroids will add size and strength, CEE Caps might help a wee bit, but it is much cheaper in powder form, BCAA can be handy, but not essential, and i would say more benefitial for cutting.

    For size and strength the only supplement worth taking is a Protein powder, i wont even recommend a Weight Gainer as most are full or crap, and your better making one yourself from Protein Powders and oats.

    This is said on here thousands of times, but the best way to put on size and strength without drugs is to just eat loads and train heavy for 3-4 times a week for less than 60mins a time, with cardio at a minimum if you are naturally skinny, or lean.

    dinot1985
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/16 23:36:40 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Redemption

    No pills other than Steroids will add size and strength, CEE Caps might help a wee bit, but it is much cheaper in powder form, BCAA can be handy, but not essential, and i would say more benefitial for cutting.

    For size and strength the only supplement worth taking is a Protein powder, i wont even recommend a Weight Gainer as most are full or crap, and your better making one yourself from Protein Powders and oats.

    This is said on here thousands of times, but the best way to put on size and strength without drugs is to just eat loads and train heavy for 3-4 times a week for less than 60mins a time, with cardio at a minimum if you are naturally skinny, or lean.




    Gotta disagree there. Beta Alanine is one supp that will help on the strength category and Citrulline Malate will help in recovery with BCAAs which have an indirect effect on size. As for CEE, it's no better that mono, so best going for something thats backed by science.

    Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid

    Child R1 and Tallon MJ2

    1Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. 2University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, DrChild@CR-Technologies.net

    Creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is a commercially available synthetic creatine that is now widely used in dietary supplements. It comprises of creatine with an ethyl group attached and this molecular configuration is reported to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate (CM). The Medical Research Institute (CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (CE2) provides greater solubility in lipids, leading to improved absorption. Similarly San (San Corporation, CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (San CM2 Alpha) avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids. Ultimately it is claimed that CEE products provide greater absorption and efficacy than CM. To date, none of these claims have been evaluated by an independent, or university laboratory and no comparative data are available on CEE and CM.

    This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (Creapure?). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

    After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

    CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Kre-alkalyn supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

    Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

    1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

    All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn? (KA) a ?Buffered? creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

    This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

    In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.
    Redemption
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/18 15:19:41 (permalink)
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    Never tried Citrulline Malate, but Beta Alanine, never did a whole lot for me in the 6 weeks i tried it, well nothing i wouldn't of accomplished without it, but maybe i had a bad brand.

    As for the CEE being no better than Mono, would have to wholeheartedly disagree, used Monohydrate on and off from about 98 onwards and got very little from any of them, only one that made any noticeable difference was MetaCell.

    With CEE all i use is pure powder and although i wouldn't say it has piled any huge amount of weight, there are very noticeable differences in how much you can lift, and more so the amount of reps you can do.

    I never have paid any attention to the majority of studies, prefer to base my opinions on my own personal finding and those of friends.

    Original point was that there are no magic pills for major size or strength increases that aren't hormonal.

    Daari
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/18 16:32:15 (permalink)
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    great post 'dinot1985'

    unfortunantly, NO creatine 'works' for me
    dinot1985
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/18 17:20:39 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Adil

    great post 'dinot1985'

    unfortunantly, NO creatine 'works' for me


    Thanks.

    Non-responder?

    Have you ever used Taurine in place?

    A blend of Taurine and Citrulline Malate can work just as good. You can incorporate Beta-Alanine but it tends to have conflict with Taurine as they both use the same receptors. It won't really effect much on the long run, just one will be absorbed before the other.

    If you're interested in a product that might help out, email me.
    post edited by dinot1985 - 2007/06/18 17:23:46
    macrophage
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/18 19:06:32 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: Redemption

    As for the CEE being no better than Mono, would have to wholeheartedly disagree, used Monohydrate on and off from about 98 onwards and got very little from any of them, only one that made any noticeable difference was MetaCell.




    note- these studies did not even get published, they were obviously debunked in peer review. However explanation still included below.

    ORIGINAL: Redemption

    Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid

    Child R1 and Tallon MJ2

    1Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. 2University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, DrChild@CR-Technologies.net

    Creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is a commercially available synthetic creatine that is now widely used in dietary supplements. It comprises of creatine with an ethyl group attached and this molecular configuration is reported to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate (CM). The Medical Research Institute (CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (CE2) provides greater solubility in lipids, leading to improved absorption. Similarly San (San Corporation, CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (San CM2 Alpha) avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids. Ultimately it is claimed that CEE products provide greater absorption and efficacy than CM. To date, none of these claims have been evaluated by an independent, or university laboratory and no comparative data are available on CEE and CM.

    This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (Creapure?). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

    After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

    CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Kre-alkalyn supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

    Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

    1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

    All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn? (KA) a ?Buffered? creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

    This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

    In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.



    its called an advertisement

    Latest News
    The dream is available today and it is called Creasafeâ„¢, the worlds safest and most advance creatine

    Request More Information
    An introduction to CR-Technologiesâ„¢


    CR-Technologiesâ„¢ is a leading innovator in the manufacture of functional foods and nutraceutical ingredients. Our philosophy is simple - to control the release of raw ingredients to make more efficacious products, at an affordable price. CR-Technologiesâ„¢ has achieved this by implementing and incorporating the very latest science for nutrient delivery and release systems into our products. All our ingredients are backed by rigorous science, providing manufacturers with greater formulation flexibility, effectiveness and safety. As a leader in the industry, CR-Technologiesâ„¢ dedicates a substantial proportion of its resources to research and development to further improve its ingredient range.
    CR-Technologiesâ„¢ provides its clients with the most advanced food ingredients, but our expertise does not simply stop there. Our customer centric business model also provides technical and legislative expertise, to help our customers fully exploit the expanding global market in functional foods and nutraceuticals.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Only esters are subject to hydrolysis in pure hydrocloric. Notice how the study makes claims about increased creatinine formation, however does not give #'s. It easy to design a study that will give you the results that you want, if you know how. Or just make up the results

    the studies are complete bull****.


    dinot1985
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    RE: Which capsules? 2007/06/18 20:30:11 (permalink)
    0
    ORIGINAL: macrophage


    ORIGINAL: Redemption

    As for the CEE being no better than Mono, would have to wholeheartedly disagree, used Monohydrate on and off from about 98 onwards and got very little from any of them, only one that made any noticeable difference was MetaCell.




    note- these studies did not even get published, they were obviously debunked in peer review. However explanation still included below.

    ORIGINAL: Redemption

    Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid

    Child R1 and Tallon MJ2

    1Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. 2University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, DrChild@CR-Technologies.net

    Creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is a commercially available synthetic creatine that is now widely used in dietary supplements. It comprises of creatine with an ethyl group attached and this molecular configuration is reported to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate (CM). The Medical Research Institute (CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (CE2) provides greater solubility in lipids, leading to improved absorption. Similarly San (San Corporation, CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (San CM2 Alpha) avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids. Ultimately it is claimed that CEE products provide greater absorption and efficacy than CM. To date, none of these claims have been evaluated by an independent, or university laboratory and no comparative data are available on CEE and CM.

    This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (Creapure?). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

    After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

    CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Kre-alkalyn supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

    Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

    1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

    All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn? (KA) a ?Buffered? creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

    This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

    In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.



    its called an advertisement

    Latest News
    The dream is available today and it is called Creasafeâ„¢, the worlds safest and most advance creatine

    Request More Information
    An introduction to CR-Technologiesâ„¢


    CR-Technologiesâ„¢ is a leading innovator in the manufacture of functional foods and nutraceutical ingredients. Our philosophy is simple - to control the release of raw ingredients to make more efficacious products, at an affordable price. CR-Technologiesâ„¢ has achieved this by implementing and incorporating the very latest science for nutrient delivery and release systems into our products. All our ingredients are backed by rigorous science, providing manufacturers with greater formulation flexibility, effectiveness and safety. As a leader in the industry, CR-Technologiesâ„¢ dedicates a substantial proportion of its resources to research and development to further improve its ingredient range.
    CR-Technologiesâ„¢ provides its clients with the most advanced food ingredients, but our expertise does not simply stop there. Our customer centric business model also provides technical and legislative expertise, to help our customers fully exploit the expanding global market in functional foods and nutraceuticals.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Only esters are subject to hydrolysis in pure hydrocloric. Notice how the study makes claims about increased creatinine formation, however does not give #'s. It easy to design a study that will give you the results that you want, if you know how. Or just make up the results

    the studies are complete bull****.





    Advertisement for what? Creasafe? Can you actually find it anywhere? Good luck trying because Cr-Technologies dont really advertise it. As for the legitability of the study, its real. What just because a company makes it its bull****? Then how about the studies on AA by William Llewellyn? You going to call them bull**** as he has the rights to it? And what about Ziegenfuss T.N., Mendel R.W. and Hofheins J.E's clinical trials on Size-On and Novedex which happened due to a grant by Gaspari Nutrition?

    These days everyone who researchs supplements is connected to them some how.

    Marc of Primaforce pretty much high fived Tallon. Now if a seller of CEE did that, it kind of stops it being advertising when other companies congratulate them on the study.

    My point is, links with companies and studies aren't always bogus. This ain't Fizogen.
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